10 replies to this topic

[Gamuray]

Many of you are aware that arm-lock is generally recommended in competitive play so that you can better focus your damage. What you may be unaware of is a penalty that this inflicts on your ability to torso-twist your mech. This arm-lock factor can hinder the capabilities of some mechs while benefiting others. Targets can be harder to track and damage can be harder to spread.

Mechanics:
With arm-lock OFF, moving your mouse a set distance will turn your torso FARTHER than moving your mouse the same distance with arm-lock ON. This results because the arms move faster and thusly cover greater distance and the torso follows suit. Weirdly, this is the case regardless of lower arm actuators. (i.e. Stalker still twists farther with arm-lock off)


This doesn't change the speed of your torso, only the distance it will travel with a given mouse movement.
This changes your torso speed by about 13% in addition to increasing the travel distance with a given mouse movement.


So... what mechs benefit from arm-lock, which ones don't, and which ones are screwed either way?


Mechs benefit from NO ARM LOCK:

Spoiler

- Weapons are only in arms OR torsos, not both (only 1 reticule matters)
OR
- Have no lower arm actuators (reticules don't diverge in the horizontal direction)

Examples:
Stalker, Blackjack, Atlas, Nova, Piranha

Mechs benefit from ARM LOCK:

Spoiler

- Weapons are spread between arms and torsos (locking keeps reticules from diverging)
AND
- Mech geometry doesn't require much twisting to spread damage (aren't penalized by reduced twist distance)

Note: Both must be true to benefit. Actuators don't matter here.

Examples:
Bushwacker (if using arms), Crab, Marauder, Thanatos, Marauder II / IIC

Mechs that don't benefit either way:

Spoiler

- Have lower arm actuators (reticules separate horizontally)
AND
- Weapons are spread between arms and torsos (unfocused damage)
AND
- Geometry that requires farther twisting (hurt by limited twisting)

Note: Turning arm lock on for these gives you focused damage, but reduces your ability to spread incoming damage

Examples:
Firestarter, Arctic Cheetah, Centurion, Timber Wolf, Highlander

This doesn't make all mechs negatively impacted by the arm-lock factor are non-viable or sub-par. Some mechs like the Vapor Eagle are quite good despite being comparatively screwed by the arm-lock factor. This is normally caused by using a build that creates a benefit from the arm-lock factor.

i.e. Only putting weapons on arms/torsos, despite hardpoints. Builds requiring face-time that don't care about twisting as much. Sniper builds that also don't care about twisting as much.

Edited by Gamuray, 22 September 2022 - 01:53 PM.

[Heavy Money]

Pretty much. Although its worth noting that if you have a high enough mouse speed, or a big mouse space and move your arm a lot, then you can still do plenty of twisting even with arm lock on. But making such large movements can also disrupt your aim!

[Knownswift]

Twisting is faster with arm lock OFF.

You should lock arms when you need to for convergence.

[Gamuray]

Knownswift, on 22 September 2022 - 01:28 PM, said:

Twisting is faster with arm lock OFF.

You should lock arms when you need to for convergence.

The speed doesn't actually change, that's limited by the chassis. But you don't have to move your mouse as far (or multiple times)

[Knownswift]

Wrong.



The MWO wiki at mechDB is updated on an ongoing basis if you'd like to read more.

https://mwo.nav-alph...nt-and-controls

[Gamuray]

Knownswift, on 22 September 2022 - 01:36 PM, said:

Wrong.



The MWO wiki at mechDB is updated on an ongoing basis if you'd like to read more.

https://mwo.nav-alph...nt-and-controls

Huh. That's odd. So I suppose the question becomes: Is the in-game torso speed stat with or without arm-lock?

I'll correct this in my post

Edited by Gamuray, 22 September 2022 - 01:48 PM.

[killkimno]

Need toogle disable lower arm actuator ( Disable x-axis )

[LordNothing]

for me really depends on build. i have unbound the modifier and instead use the toggle, defaulting to locked. weapons list is pretty good at indicating arm and torso weapons, so ive gotten in the habbit of checking that at match start and hitting the button to put it in the better mode for the build (this is one thing i wish i could pre-set in the mech lab so i dont forget).

i lock arms if:

big weapons in torso
all weapons in torso
well distributed weapons
arms contain scatter weapons (non-homing)
no la actuators

unlock if:

big weapons in arms
all weapons in arms
all direct fire weapons in arms
when using homing weapons (better tracking, especially with arm mounted tag)
if torso weapons are scatter weapons (such as arm lasers and torso srms)

toggle on when:
brawling
fighting lights
precision shots (when advantageous for the build)
shooting uavs or high/low targets

also you can always twist faster by coordinating legs and torso. so any benefit in tracking speed from leaving the arms unlocked can be obtained in other ways. if you absolutely have to turn faster than that, you are probibly too close to the enemy.

Edited by LordNothing, 22 September 2022 - 06:40 PM.

[LordNothing]

Gamuray, on 22 September 2022 - 01:48 PM, said:

Huh. That's odd. So I suppose the question becomes: Is the in-game torso speed stat with or without arm-lock?

I'll correct this in my post

technically its a rate cap. but the two systems seem to use it in different ways.

when running with arms unlocked, it is using some kind of control loop. it seems to be proportional control seeing as the speed depends on the distance between the crosshairs, it gets a little slower when they get close to alignment, this is to prevent jitter or overshooting. most of the time however it is moving at the maximum possible traverse rate.

when using the mouse to control a locked torso, you either end up overshooting or undershooting the cap. in the former case you dont get the rate you think you are getting, and in the latter you simply move slower. you can think of this mode as lossy. the losses accumulate and it ends up being slower.

id also think this has something to do with the oversensitivity of the mouse. with anything over a value of 0.1 being considered too sensitive by most reasonably good players. i have a feeling the traverse rate also gets scaled by this value. if this was causing it to undershoot a lot would certainly explain the lack of speed. you could turn up the sensitivity to twist better, but this would make your aim way too sensitive.

Edited by LordNothing, 22 September 2022 - 08:44 PM.

[VeeOt Dragon]

i just have them st to toggle so if i need to shoot further up or down than arm lock would allow (given i have weapons in those arms) i can just hit the toggle key and be able to hit them but otherwise i just use arm lock for simplicity.

[PocketYoda]

Knownswift, on 22 September 2022 - 01:36 PM, said:

Wrong.



The MWO wiki at mechDB is updated on an ongoing basis if you'd like to read more.

https://mwo.nav-alph...nt-and-controls

Is that in all mechs or just a bug with urbies because they can 360 degrees?