66 replies to this topic

[Voice of Kerensky]

martian, on 14 October 2022 - 09:41 PM, said:

Hello!

If you post it in the appropriate section, perhaps somebody will notice and correct this bug.

The small problem is that there is no map designer among the PGI's MWO staff right now - François left PGI a few weeks ago.

Thx.

Fnord Asteroid, on 15 October 2022 - 06:34 AM, said:

streaks were used for seal clubbing pretty much exclusively
seal clubbing is even harder when groups are included in 'solo' que

glad the streak nightmare is over
glad to have groups to play off of in the quickplay queue

voice of kerensky is the voice of some random j.o. who probably has more than he deserves

most of you just want to play another twitch shooter

**** OFF ALREADY, GO AWAY YOU ARE RUINING THE LAST ONE OF THESE **** OOOOOOOFFFFFFFFFFF

Well, with your 10-100 battles per month at the fifth tier, it’s certainly better for you than for me to know which weapons on the battlefield have the right to be present.
And now I'm directly pointing out to you your clumsy reproach that "voice of kerensky is the voice of some random j.o. who probably has more than he deserves". I'll tell you this: testing new builds of mechs on the training ground, I spent more time in the MWO than you did in all your battles. As we say in Russia: "I drove more kilometers in reverse gear than you basically drove."

Edited by Voice of Kerensky, 15 October 2022 - 07:24 AM.

[Voice of Kerensky]

Fnord Asteroid, on 15 October 2022 - 06:39 AM, said:

clan laser need nerfing if they need anything

clan tech is OP don't even try and tell me its not

when i want to 'win' i run clan
when i want to have fun in a build i came up with, inner shere

Just get rid of the illusions: you will suffer when you get to us for 1 tier.
On Tier 3, you won't recognize the game.
On Tier 2, you will think for a moment that you can play.
But the real Tier 1 will be nearby. If you come to the first tier shooting range, please go back and reread your messages.

[Sawk]

WOW i will agree that the CLAN sensors work better, the weapons do have longer range, i play CLAN, but if think the Inner Spere is not power less, they back much more PUNCH, at close range.

THE problem this game has is to many MOODY folks want to win in there first 100 games, the learning curve can BE MUCH higher, DEPENDING ON HOW YOU SPEND, and or how much you build, and who are hanging out with. : )

BUT can you play in a team ????
\
SAWK CLANNER PS i have 21000 DROPS : )

[KursedVixen]

So we're going to further make clan range a not existant thing huh?

[Steel Raven]

Apparently.

The sniper meta has made it annoying but Clan Mechs are Glass Canons that overheat easily enough.

I honestly have no fun with Clan machines anymore as I hate the sniping meta but almost any clan mech feels like it's made of tissue paper in a proper push.

If you are still getting your butt kicked by clan tech, you are either loosing the sniper game or playing someone above your rank because the player count is so low, rank is meaningless anymore.

[Spheroid]

Dyex, on 14 October 2022 - 03:22 PM, said:

Is there a chance you guys could look at the code for BAP and Clan Active Probe looking if their sensor range +25% is missing before ECM reduction.

I know that bonus from Sensor Range in Skill Tree for example does get calculated before ECM reduction, so I feel like this was always a oversite bug.
Not too sure about other sensor range bonus from targeting computers and mech quirks get calculated or not into ECM.

Thanks

I see no evidence that BAP is not functioning. What testing have you done?

[Dyex]

Spheroid, on 16 October 2022 - 10:16 AM, said:

I see no evidence that BAP is not functioning. What testing have you done?

Against ECM Targets. The ones you show were against non-ECM. (Thanks for visuals btw).

Against ECM targets the BAPs should add 50m to the sensor range against 75% ECM reduction.

Edited by Dyex, 16 October 2022 - 03:58 PM.

[A21B]

the snub max range needs to be even less, most fighting is around 600 meters or less, increasing the range of med pulse is also not needed.
i feel the direction the game is going is that every weapon in same weight class will bee the same say for 1 damage and 1 heat

[Dyex]

Here I made an example: THIS IS sensor range bonuses against ECM!


Notice, only the Skill Tree and Mech Quirks are added before ECM check.
-The only thing that works is BAPS single counter ECM up to 240m range, BASE + BAP 25% sensor range should see up to 250m.


- How it should work against ECM 75% is like this if they all work
BASE = +200m (OK)
BAP = +50m (not working vs ecm)
TC8 = +16m (not working vs ecm)
COM = +12m (not working vs ecm)
x5 Nodes of Sensor Range Skill Tree = +70m (OK)
150m Sensor Range Mech Quirk = 37.5m (OK)


So... with this knowledge how it should work BASE + SKILL TREE + BAP should add total ECM detection of 320m but it won't.
it will only detect ECM starting at 270m.

Edited by Dyex, 16 October 2022 - 03:56 PM.

[Jack Straw from Wichita]

oh here we go again...third patch in a row...third time PGI is nerfing the snub nose ppc. Why is it that every time cry babies complain they're being killed to much by a particular weapon PGI goes and nerfs it to death? Yet they do absolutely nothing to nerf the one weapon that single handily is ruining this game..by that I mean the lrm's! These cowardly unskilled players hide in the distance raining down waves of missiles without ever seeing their enemy. Unless PGI is going to do something to even the playing field for "real" mech warriors like increasing the effectiveness of both ecm and ams systems which seem to do very little in the way of protection then maybe they should take a page out of the playbook from other fps's like Hell Let Loose and Squad which limit the number players who can go out as a sniper or assault or support. This way assures more balanced gameplay by not having one side stacked with to many of one kind of operator. Of course this is probably way over the heads of PGI to achieve so the prior seems to be the better resolve. Moral of the story here...STOP SCREWING WITH THE WEAPON NERFS IF YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO EVEN THE PLAYING FIELD.

[Dyex]

Jack Straw from Wichita, on 16 October 2022 - 04:16 PM, said:

STOP SCREWING WITH THE WEAPON NERFS IF YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO EVEN THE PLAYING FIELD.

For the Snubs they were very much buffed once they became splash damage... not nerfed. PGI now adjusting because they didn't take into account their very low ghost heat and x2.3 max range which were part of what people are abusing about them.

Think PGI was going for short range brawling equivalent of Clan ER-PPC for the IS.

As for LRMs, they are full countered by ECM. AMS destroy about 5 missile or 10% of missiles that are incoming per AMS.
Even without these, a pilot can most often just hug cover to block projectiles, LRM are not much different.

(also 100% radar deprivation completely ruins one of the main mechanics about locking targets to counter peek snipers)

Edited by Dyex, 16 October 2022 - 04:40 PM.

[martian]

Jack Straw from Wichita, on 16 October 2022 - 04:16 PM, said:

oh here we go again...third patch in a row...third time PGI is nerfing the snub nose ppc. Why is it that every time cry babies complain they're being killed to much by a particular weapon PGI goes and nerfs it to death?

At first PGI boosted Snubnose PPCs too much. Now they have been attempting to find the right reduced values that would make SnPPCs useful, but not OP.

Jack Straw from Wichita, on 16 October 2022 - 04:16 PM, said:

Yet they do absolutely nothing to nerf the one weapon that single handily is ruining this game..by that I mean the lrm's! These cowardly unskilled players hide in the distance raining down waves of missiles without ever seeing their enemy. Unless PGI is going to do something to even the playing field for "real" mech warriors like increasing the effectiveness of both ecm and ams systems which seem to do very little in the way of protection then maybe they should take a page out of the playbook from other fps's like Hell Let Loose and Squad which limit the number players who can go out as a sniper or assault or support. This way assures more balanced gameplay by not having one side stacked with to many of one kind of operator. Of course this is probably way over the heads of PGI to achieve so the prior seems to be the better resolve. Moral of the story here...STOP SCREWING WITH THE WEAPON NERFS IF YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO EVEN THE PLAYING FIELD.

LRMs? One of the most easily countered weapon system in the game? Seriously?

[VFA22Python]

I agree with Jack Straw . The only reason a weapon gets nerfed is if players complain that it has an unfair advantage . The Snub Nose PPC being addressed in the past three patches say's something . ECM is a joke most of the times .

Edited by VFA22Python, 16 October 2022 - 09:17 PM.

[Jack Straw from Wichita]

On what planet does ecm "fully" counter LRMs? I run ecm on many of my mechs and still get hammered by LRMs. And "no"...don't say you were probably narced every time either. Fact is PGI needs to make ecm and ams way more effective to discourage all those unskilled players from continuing to hide in the distance and push a button...bottom line. Slealth armor was devised to help players from being detected and was an excellent counter from the LRMs so one could at least get close enough to fire on them without getting killed by missiles on the way. But once again it got nerfed by being able to be temporarily disabled by a ppc blast which makes no sense. That's why I said what I said about stop nerfing things if you can't make it fair all around.

[Dyex]

Jack Straw from Wichita, on 16 October 2022 - 09:23 PM, said:

On what planet does ecm "fully" counter LRMs?

I run ecm on many of my mechs and still get hammered by LRMs. And "no"...don't say you were probably narced every time either. Fact is PGI needs to make ecm and ams way more effective to discourage all those unskilled players from continuing to hide in the distance and push a button...bottom line.

But once again it got nerfed by being able to be temporarily disabled by a ppc blast which makes no sense. That's why I said what I said about stop nerfing things if you can't make it fair all around.

As in ECM fully counter target locks unless you have something else to counter ECM. Otherwise you have no locks or extremally slow indirect locks that take too long to be useful.

You need to understand what is going on before you just say nerf LRMs without a solution how.
LRMs need line of site, if your getting LRM your being seen on radar.
If you got ECM only a direct line of site from TAG or PPC can counter the ECM (other then NARC) so you are already somewhere with eyes on you.

As for AMS and ECM, you can't buff them more I don't think without hurting using missiles overall. They are already cheap on tonnage and do their job. ECM is very OP, even when no LRMs are on map.

If you really wanted to make LRM more healthy, you need to counter boating LRMS with large launchers, but still make having a few LRM viable. You should be able to use 20~30 missile from LRM5,10 still.

Best counter is just reduce the ammo per ton for LRM15 and 20. This will make them not be able to boat 50~120 missile tubes and enough ammo to rain indirect fire LRMs. Maybe a good start would be 158 missiles per ton, instead of 240 missiles a ton for LRM15, 20.
If you really wanted to some mechs who depend on 2 LRM20 and only have 2 missile points, you could give them a mech quirk to increase the LRM20 ammo back to 240/t.

Possible if PGI did something like this, then it would be safe to decrease radar deprivation a bit instead of 100% to maybe 80%, or even 65%.
Right now it makes target decay skill is not even worth the 5 points.

Edited by Dyex, 16 October 2022 - 10:50 PM.

[Runecarver]

Dyex, on 16 October 2022 - 10:21 PM, said:

If you really wanted to make LRM more healthy, you need to counter boating LRMS with large launchers, but still make having a few LRM viable. You should be able to use 20~30 missile from LRM5,10 still.

No offense but that's a terrible idea and solves nothing. And it doesn't take into account at all how ineffective the damage per ton for LRMs is.

[Dyex]

Runecarver, on 17 October 2022 - 02:43 AM, said:

No offense but that's a terrible idea and solves nothing. And it doesn't take into account at all how ineffective the damage per ton for LRMs is.

I personally think it's a correct approach. The damage per ton is not terrible for LRM it's just that it is splash damage and the accuracy density could be tighter if needed.
The meta is if you don't boat LRM there is no point to bring them because doing less then 20 has little impact.
So here we are with LRM boats with 60 to +80 missile tubes people seem to find no fun to get dumped on because you can't counter that many incoming missiles without hiding.

And again, want to say I only suggest dropping LRM15 and LRM20 ammo/ton, keep LRM5 and LRM10 ammo 240.
Then you can balance LRM to be more accurate if you wish to make them not waste ammo in direct fire.

That is my take anyways.

Edited by Dyex, 17 October 2022 - 05:42 AM.

[Mochyn Pupur]

Fine, drop tonnage but increase damage per missile, otherwise your iconic LRM mechs become useless e.g. Catapult and Archer that were designed for high missile number delivery.

TBF. Don't think you're on the right track with this idea.

[C337Skymaster]

I strongly suggest running a LRM boat before you go screaming that they all need to be nerfed into the ground. Last few times I ran LRMs, I didn't see ANY target locks for more than a second at a time, all game. UAVs being the exception, and only when they were placed sneakily enough that they weren't immediately shot down. If I wanted to participate at all, I had to spot my own targets, get my own locks, and expose myself to return fire by staring at a target for four or five seconds just to acquire the lock, never mind firing, and tracking the missiles to the target afterwards. There are so many 'mechs with ECM, these days, that even using NARCs is unreliable, because the spotted 'mech can quickly and easily find a teammate with active ECM to shelter them for the 10 or so seconds it takes for the NARC to power down. The reason for so few targets on radar isn't even that nobody's pressing "R" so much as there's so much ECM present, that entire battles are being fought with just the Mk.1 Eyeball.

Add to that, the issue of Radar Deprivation: for 10 skill points, you can basically put "ECM" on any 'mech in the game. You step behind a twig, or some invisible terrain, just enough for the target lock to blip (doesn't have to be gone more than a split second), and the LRM boat needs to fully reacquire the lock from scratch, which takes too long once the missiles are in flight to redirect them to their target.

I definitely feel that Radar Dep and Target Decay should be 1:1 counters to each other. If you have full Target Decay, and you're spotting someone with full Radar Dep, they should mutually cancel, and leave the situation at the base decay rate, as though neither 'mech had any skills at all.

[Knownswift]

C337Skymaster, on 17 October 2022 - 06:57 AM, said:

If I wanted to participate at all, I had to spot my own targets, get my own locks, and expose myself to return fire

The horror.