46 replies to this topic

[Corbantu]

Just came back to MWO after a few months playing WoTs. I don't have hard data, just my anecdotal experience and I wanted to say I prefer the stomp than the slow battle of attrition. On world of tanks the matches seemed to be much closer, a stomp (12 to 3>) wasn't as common there than here. Because of this the players were far more cautious. The battles felt very static and camp heavy. Victory was won an inch at a time. It was... painful most of the time. So here's some food for thought, enjoy the stomp, it makes players aggressive and battles dynamic.

[martian]

In my opinion there are four basic causes of stomps in MWO:

1) Rollovers
One team seizes the initiative right from the start and rolls over the enemy team. Frequently seen when one team has a good premade while the opposing team includes none (or even worse, bad one).The enemy 'Mechs often do not even know what hit them. I can not say that I enjoy being either on the winning or losing side in this situation.

The gross imbalance in team weight also belongs here. You know, four or five Assaults on one side against one or no Assault on the other side. They simply roll over the enemy team without much effort.

2) Sudden team failure
Both teams fight - more or less - balanced battle until a few of one team's players do something foolish. You know, things like three to four players running away from battle redeploying 600 metres behind their team because they suddenly decided to play snipers. The weakened team can not hold the line and is overwhelmed by the enemy. Or when such players suddenly decide to "flank" the enemy team and their attempt ends up in failure.

Of course, some grave mistakes can happen too. Being caught out of position, not following your team's movements, etc.

3) Unsuccessful nascaring
Lemmings rushing forward, while simultaneously leaving their most powerful units behind to the enemy team. When the match score is 0:4, they realize that they lost all Assaults or heavies, while the enemy team still has 12 quite fresh 'Mechs with vastly greater firepower. Stomp ensues ...

4) Imbalance in loadouts between the teams on some maps
For example, when one team deploys on Alpine Peaks with the majority of 'Mechs configured for ranged combat, while the opposing team is composed mostly of brawlers. The team with "unsuitable" loadouts can be stomped without much effort. The mirror image can happen on Solaris City map.

Edited by martian, 27 October 2022 - 08:52 AM.

[feeWAIVER]

Stomps would be less annoying if there was a threshold that allowed you to honorably eject.
Like if the score is 2-10 with 11 minutes left on the clock, you should be allowed to nope out without penalty.

[Meep Meep]

Due to the greater mobility of mechs vs tanks in their respective games you will see a lot more stomps here because once the snowball effect starts rolling it finishes up quickly. Unless there is a fast moving 20 tonner evading slower mechs as the last mech standing. I will do that if it there is a reasonable chance to kill off the remaining mechs but if I'm the only one left vs a mostly fresh team I'll just zoom in and get in as much damage as possible before they kill me. In some ways this game plays out more like an infantry shooter than a vehicle based game and many of the same tactics work great especially for the faster smaller mechs.

[martian]

feeWAIVER, on 27 October 2022 - 10:36 AM, said:

Stomps would be less annoying if there was a threshold that allowed you to honorably eject.
Like if the score is 2-10 with 11 minutes left on the clock, you should be allowed to nope out without penalty.

Some people hide in the corner of the map in such situations.

Usually this is not a big problem:

• In Assault you go and cap the base to finish the game
  
• In Conquest you cap bases
  
• In Domination you just stand in the domination zone
  
• In Incursion you destroy the enemy base; those defensive turrets are no big obstacles

The only game mode where you must either find the last enemy 'Mech or wait until the end is Skirmish, since there is nothing to cap or to destroy to end the mission.

[Curccu]

martian, on 27 October 2022 - 11:32 AM, said:

Some people hide in the corner of the map in such situations.

Usually this is not a big problem:

• In Assault you go and cap the base to finish the game
  
• In Conquest you cap bases
  
• In Domination you just stand in the domination zone
  
• In Incursion you destroy the enemy base; those defensive turrets are no big obstacles

The only game mode where you must either find the last enemy 'Mech or wait until the end is Skirmish, since there is nothing to cap or to destroy to end the mission.

And when game ends everyone should report that player for non participation because wasting everyone elses time on purpose is **** move.

[feeWAIVER]

Curccu, on 27 October 2022 - 12:13 PM, said:

And when game ends everyone should report that player for non participation because wasting everyone elses time on purpose is **** move.

When my team melts in the first 4 minutes, I should be able to report them for wasting my time.
But seriously, pie in the sky, in MWO2 they should design around that, and certain stomp conditions should trigger an evac site or allow ejection.

[martian]

Curccu, on 27 October 2022 - 12:13 PM, said:

And when game ends everyone should report that player for non participation because wasting everyone elses time on purpose is **** move.

There was a time when I felt annoyed.

Now I simply cap the enemy base and I call it a day.

Also, I used to witness this behaviour before the PSR reset (when players of all skill levels were usually mixed in one game), when it was relatively common. These days I do not see such behaviour that often, although it is possible that some players still practice it in lower Tiers.

Edited by martian, 27 October 2022 - 12:28 PM.

[Curccu]

martian, on 27 October 2022 - 12:23 PM, said:

Now I simply cap the enemy base and I call it a day.

Sure if game mode has capping.

[JediPanther]

I can tell which team is normally the winner. The one that gets three kills first. 0-3 and you know its not going to be a win in qp. 1-3 or 2-3 you might get lucky but most the time you already have a 2:1 against you.

So many people fail at knowing when to get aggressive and attack, give cover fire to the single mech trying to hold dom, or simply turn the f around and shoot a few lights to avoid a flank.

[crazytimes]

I came from ~20,000 WoT matches to MWO. The two biggest difference in gameplay is that here, armour is purely ablative- not reflective, and in WoT effective scouting matters because of the visibility system.

WoT rewards careful position and use of terrain and map features. MWO - you are visible from across the map, and anything that can range will always reduce your health pool. Caution is not rewarded in any way, and nor can you use terrain in any real way for either protection from damage, or being spotted. Scouting has very limited effect on outcomes usually, as the team will always be rotating around a known central point.

I've got some happy memories of WoT in tanks like the IS-3, getting hull down in a little depression and tanking bulk damage off the turret mantle. It took a while to adapt to MWO where even the heaviest assault could get cored by high alpha lights if you tried to face tank for even a few seconds without twisting.

I don't like WoT's model of tanks being completely invisible across desert at a few hundred metres because of a combination of camo value, cam net, crew skill and they're stationary- but at least it's some kind of information warfare factor. MWO is limited to ECM to slow down the LRMs, stealth as a bit of a meme gimmick, and UAVs because they give credit/xp rewards. Everyone knows where the enemy are going to go, there's very rarely a surprise, except for that last shadowcat that is hiding on the buildings in Solaris City.

[Meep Meep]

crazytimes, on 27 October 2022 - 03:40 PM, said:

WoT rewards careful position and use of terrain and map features. MWO - you are visible from across the map, and anything that can range will always reduce your health pool. Caution is not rewarded in any way, and nor can you use terrain in any real way for either protection from damage, or being spotted. Scouting has very limited effect on outcomes usually, as the team will always be rotating around a known central point.

I have to disagree completely. Positioning is key in this game along with using terrain to your advantage. That the teamwork needed to pull it off as a group is hard to come by in the chaos of random quick play teams doesn't mean its not effective if used when possible. A premade lance using game voip and coordinating everyone else can do some very good work. Good lord the key to a successful squirrel run is abusing terrain features to gain advantageous positions or to break los and to hide when you are backstabbing from ecm etc. Lrm spammers just love it when I zip behind a blob of mechs huddling behind terrain that shooting down any uav to avoid damage and keep them perma lit without a uav to give it away. Scouting is also useful even in pubs by letting your blob know where the other blob is because sometimes they don't do the normal nascar and might reverse the circle or even hole up in a good position waiting on your blob to wander into their lines of fire.

[martian]

Curccu, on 27 October 2022 - 01:59 PM, said:

Sure if game mode has capping.

Then I welcome the opportunity to explore the less visited parts of the map.

[ScrapIron Prime]

feeWAIVER, on 27 October 2022 - 12:21 PM, said:

When my team melts in the first 4 minutes, I should be able to report them for wasting my time.
But seriously, pie in the sky, in MWO2 they should design around that, and certain stomp conditions should trigger an evac site or allow ejection.

I definitely don’t want that. Those are the games where I made Ace of Spades… picking off the wounded as the last one left alive to shoot them, =)

[PocketYoda]

I'm no pro gamer but i can generally tell if my team is going to lose in the first 30secs -1min of the game match, maybe because i've been playing for so long but i'm almost always right, there are those once in a blue moon matches where we or they pull it out of the flames.. But most times its very easy to see how the match is going to end up..

Its usually those teams that randomly spread all over is a good sign of failure.. Asking the team to group up is pointless.

[Corbantu]

PocketYoda, on 28 October 2022 - 05:17 AM, said:

Its usually those teams that randomly spread all over is a good sign of failure.. Asking the team to group up is pointless.

I was in a match once in solarace city where 4 light mechs grouped up and ran straight into the enemy the enemy. Before the first minute of the match it was 0-4. Never seen anything like that since.

[martian]

Corbantu, on 28 October 2022 - 07:17 AM, said:

I was in a match once in solarace city where 4 light mechs grouped up and ran straight into the enemy the enemy. Before the first minute of the match it was 0-4. Never seen anything like that since.

I witnessed the identical situation this morning.

Probably they read on the forums that groups of light 'Mechs are mortal danger and OP.

They really are ... if you know what you are doing.

The problem is that running into the prepared enemy team of 12 'Mechs "head-on" is not the right scenario.

[Seelenlos]

YOU smart guys all forget the SCOUTING in this game.
A.
THERE ARE NEARLY NO SCOUTS in this game!

Some of you who have played with me may have recognized it, the moment i am in my scouts Mechs (and f.ck all of my Mechs have scout-equip) the matches are more survivable.

B.
And that is because of PGIs/CAULDERONs LOVE for direct-Damage and and their INNEATE HATE for Missile-Warfare in Battletech/Mechwarrior (though the concept is specially around Missile, PPC and ACs).

So adding to the A the factor B you can see the game - though even it had/has the possibilities from the start - is damned to suck for all player-kinds as it is defunct in its inner core principle. You can illogical try to get to the logical, or barrow ideas from one concept and implement them half on another without other complementing/completing principals.

Even my to friends/teammates do hesitate to implement the scout-equi as I demand, so what do you think what all the other players act....

The Scouting-Equip gives overall 10-30% and every Mech equipped also min of 5% in team, so your win chance is nearly above 60% even if enemy has some.

You bring more weapons, you are more out of the match as WHAT IS THE EFFECT OF MORE WEAPONS? Yes, you have forgot to install enough heat-counter and are non-participant, like if you are in a the CAVE !!!

You could also do not play as you are only 30% participant of the 60% min everybody needs to bring in a match!

Oh and I am so bad in maths ... you can't believe it, and still i have the % number up ...

[Knownswift]

There is plenty of scouting in every game in the first two-five minutes.

[martian]

Knownswift, on 29 October 2022 - 06:22 AM, said:

There is plenty of scouting in every game in the first two-five minutes.

It depends on the map and on the game mode.

• There is no real need of scouting on small maps like Vitric Station or Forest Colony Classic.
  
• There is no real need of scouting when playing a game mode with static objective like Domination. Both teams must go to the same place on the map.
  
• On Alpine Peaks one can see enemy 'Mechs on two kilometres.
  
• etc.

Even on large maps like Polar Highlands the players of the both teams usually leave their respective drop zones and simply move straight on, so the battle usually ensues in the centre of the map.