16 replies to this topic

[ThreeStooges]

Narc. One if not the most useless things as a "weapon" in the game. 600m range with 500m velocity with a seven,that's a big F 7 seconds of cool down. But the tree does 12% cool down and 15% velocity! And narc still sucks. But the narc nodes! Well it does whatever duration plus thirty is and twenty velocity. The great hud and tool tips really help you there.

My main greif with it? 7 seconds cool down. Name one weapon with equal or more cool down before skill tree and/or mech quirks. i'll start the short list of the "big" weapons.

Erppc IS=4
Hppc=5
Lpl=3

mrm 40=4.5
Lrm 20=4.3
Ssrm6=4
Srm6=3.75

Hgr=5
uac 20=4
ac20=4
lbx 20=4

Even looking for the specific quirks of missile cool down combined with the skill tree the best cool down on my mechs is minus 2.59 which means it still has a cool down of 4.41. Barley close to a few of the "big" weapons. How bout we make the cd one or two seconds less universal? Atleast then the dam thing can be use more than a few times in qp before the match is over. I only need a ton and a half at most ammo for it even without the missile ammo skill nodes.

I found it pretty shocking that several hero mechs have less cool down than standard variants with a mere minus 1.89 while my best came in at minus 2.59.

[Meep Meep]

I thought the biggest gripe with narc is that no one will shoot missiles at the targets you hit so its a pointless quick play equip. It's great if you are lanced up with missile slingers you can rely on though.

[LordNothing]

always thought tag/narc were weak in this game. mwll did it right where they act like a missile magnet. but apparently pgi coded themselves into a corner and it doesnt work in their game.

[Meep Meep]

The main benefit of narc is that you can't run out of los and break lock but you can of course still get behind cover so its mitigated somewhat unless they get narc'd way out in the open. The other stuff is secondary at best. Better to use the missile slot for something else or just save the tonnage for better weapons.

[chaosshade2638]

NARC "sucks" because it's so powerful in the right hands. A stealth raven NARCer on a LRM-heavy team is basically giving the team free kills. If anything, NARC needs a nerf because it lasts too long.

[Meep Meep]

Yeah narc is powerful in very specific situations but I don't see very many lrm heavy quick play matches unless there is an event where you have to do missile damage. Not too much of a thing in faction play though there are some notable exceptions.

[martian]

ThreeStooges, on 22 November 2022 - 04:48 PM, said:

My main greif with it? 7 seconds cool down. Name one weapon with equal or more cool down before skill tree and/or mech quirks.
...

1) Cooldown.

II think that this 7-seconds cooldown is a measure that ensures that two thirds of the enemy team will not spend the game narced.

Note that NARC Beacon lasts more than twenty seconds, so even before it expires, you can narc your second and third enemy 'Mech.

2) Cooperation

NARC Beacon requires cooperation. Although it is possible to run LRMs and NARC on one 'Mech, this is not ideal solution.

Thus, NARC can be extremely effective when used by a premade group, but much less useful in the QP in the team of twelve randomly assembled players:
2a) A premade group can spam a narced enemy 'Mech with a few hundred LRMs one or two seconds after it is narced.
2b) A random PUG team - especially in higher Tiers - may not run LRMs at all. It can easily happen that you narc an enemy 'Mech and no friendly LRMs will appear in the air.

[Curccu]

Narc might be the most OP weapon in the game, it just requires good light pilot that has skill to land that narc to enemy and few mediocre lrm assault pilots then, let it rain let it rain... boom. Repeat.

[martian]

Curccu, on 22 November 2022 - 11:57 PM, said:

Narc might be the most OP weapon in the game, it just requires good light pilot that has skill to land that narc to enemy and few mediocre lrm assault pilots then, let it rain let it rain... boom. Repeat.

Deploying on a suitable map is also important: NARC Beacon + LRMs can be very effective on Alpine Peaks, but less so on Solaris City.

[VeeOt Dragon]

you also have to keep in mind that a few years back they did a huge overhaul on lock-on weapons and the equipment that assists them. during the same pass they did do one thing positive and that was give LRM two different firing arcs (the normal high arc for IDF and a flatter one for it you have LOS).

now for the negatives. they nerfed the lock on area by i think an 80% reduction (used to be as long as your cross-hairs were in the box you were fine no it needs to be the exact center.). they also Nerfed NARC, and TAG reducing its effectiveness and removing certain benefits entirely. on top of that they nerfed the hell out of Artemis making it useless and not worth the tonnage/slots. i even think TCs got altered so that the projectile velocity doesn't effect missiles anymore. though i may be mistaken as my old man brain is only partially functional.

now in early game i can see LRM being devastating but once you hit T3 or so people have learned to counter LRM, not to mention the prevalence of ECM in the game now days. AMS isn't to big a deal unless there is a Corsair-7A on the field since most players would rather use the tonnage for other things (so don't whine about being hit by LRM if your mech had an AMS slot and you didn't use it, even a single AMS does wonders (as an LRM player i am kicking myself for giving this sort of advice but there it is))

[CrimsonPhantom6sg062]

NARC is useful for lights to assaults if you can coordinate with the rest of your team. For assaults, you want to build it into a mid to short range or bracket laservom/ DPS build so that while you facetank the enemy you can NARC them without them realizing it for a while.*1 It is not only useful for IDF, but also to track enemy movement.

If you cannot coordinate with your team, then NARC is situational at best because you cannot guarantee that NARC will be used properly by your team in each match.


*1 Do not use it on LRM or ATM boats. NARC is best used at close range due to slow velocity, and close range is suicide for these builds.
Also a general rule:
NARC light build = Harasser.
NARC assault build = Death sentence to NARC'd enemy(s), but play carefully - make sure you always have an escape plan.

[Cherge]

With how insane it is when it's used to its full effectiveness, I'm fine with how it is now

[RockmachinE]

Being bored of MWO at one point I've decided to dedicate some time to NARCing in QP. As a solo I've run into 3 consistent problems.

1.) AMS can shoot down narcs, making it hard to narc sometimes. AMS used to be very prevalent prior to the LRM nerf meta.
2.) You can narc, but there won't necessarily be someone on the team who can utilize it. This happens more often then you'd think even under the old meta.
3.) Its heavy and low ammo per tonne. Ammo + NARC tends to be heavy for mechs that are fast enough to deploy it successfully meaning you are sacrificing quite some damage potential running something that might or might not be useful depending on too many factors.

These days NARC is a moot point. LRMs have been nerfed to oblivion + target decay has made them an uncommon sight making it rare to get a combo of someone NARCing and someone LRMing. To use NARC simply to reveal the enemy with no LRMs is usually not worth the tonnage and effort and you'd be better off shooting something that does damage at the enemy or just UAV instead of narc.

It can still be used in coordinated fashion, but as a solo its beyond useless or simply not worth it with the current meta. It can be goofy fun to run around NARCing and revealing half the enemy team, but from a functional/practical perspective it won't do much to help the team and you're better off doing other stuff.

Edited by Louis Brofist, 24 November 2022 - 07:17 AM.

[martian]

Louis Brofist, on 24 November 2022 - 07:05 AM, said:

It can still be used in coordinated fashion, but as a solo its beyond useless or simply not worth it with the current meta. It can be goofy fun to run around NARCing and revealing half the enemy team, but from a functional/practical perspective it won't do much to help the team and you're better off doing other stuff.

From time to time, I take NARC in the QP. YOu know, just for fun.

Do you want to know what I hate? When I narc some enemy 'Mech(s), I know that my team has LRMs ... and our Lurmboat(s) do not fire, even though they have narced enemy 'Mech well within range and the terrain is good. They could fire all right, but they are saving their ammo "for better opportunity".

[VeeOt Dragon]

if someone is playing LRM and worried about ammo i think they need to tweak their build a bit. LRM especially the larger launchers are ammo hungry and its always good to carry at least 3t per launcher, more if you can do it. (well that and ALWAYS carry backup weapons even say 4 ER SL is something or a couple MLs.)

[Spheroid]

I don't know why you feel cooldown is the limiting factor in NARC use. Rapid cooldown just invites increased exposure risk. If you are hunting NARC victims, it is sufficient that cooldown simply occurs before duration expiration on the intended target.

If you want to spam NARCs equip dual wielding platforms like a Raven-3L, Artic Cheetah, Commando-2D or Shadowcat. Triple wielding uber-troll builds can also be built. Multi-wielding allows quick follow up shots for only one exposure risk when poptarting or corner peaking.

Finally, you should already be aware NARCing in quickplay is the road to c-bill, xp and PSR poverty. However, if you are serious about its use, you are guaranteed never to move out of T5 and thus assure that you team will be bring some percentage of garbage lurm builds.

Edited by Spheroid, 25 November 2022 - 11:12 AM.

[martian]

Spheroid, on 25 November 2022 - 10:56 AM, said:

Finally, you should already be aware NARCing in quickplay is the road to c-bill, xp and PSR poverty. However, if you are serious about its use, you are guaranteed never to move out of T5 and thus assure that you team will be bring some percentage of garbage lurm builds.

Essentially, PSR working as intended.