118 replies to this topic

[JuggernautXTR]

VeeOt Dragon, on 11 December 2022 - 01:15 PM, said:

you know i wouldn't mind the groups in QP if the MM could actually handle them properly. sadly we barely have the population for the MM to work right without groups let alone to get it to work with them.

i'm ok with a single 4 person group per team though. i'm not a huge fan but understand why the did it and why it must continue. (well at least until PGI gets off their collective asses and do some actual advertising to bring in fresh blood)

FP will be dead soon as well and i mostly blame the 12 person pug stomper groups for that. no one wants to play a game mode where you wait almost an hour at times for a match only to get stomped by some elitist shitbags because you dropped solo or in a small group.

the bigger issue is your dropped as a team, everyone thinks its a PVE, i call them scatter teams your going to get rofl stomped when the "team" does not play as a team. when you got three mechs in this map coordinate 3 in another that pug group who is communicating with the rest of their team is going to circle to hit those groups and start picking you off.
I mean seriously 3 vs 6,8,12 mechs your going to get blown up real quick. i have won these matches, and it was all a matter of staying grouped responsibly enough to do so.
but i consistently get caught with these teams that end up spread out all over the map and do not work together. these matches again can be won but until people start to realize that you were dropped as a team to work together as a team.
quick play is a "team drop" and it is not being treated as such,pugs didn't reach the top by being eliist they got there grinding as a team.
calling mech locations and what mech they are all going to be firing on at the same time.
whats got more firing power 3 mechs or 6,8,12? until everyone starts to use QP as a "team drop" your going to have a hard time winning any matches.

[Cherge]

But how will the "only in Tier 1 because of premade" players stay in Tier 1 if this happens

[SFC174]

pbiggz, on 08 December 2022 - 04:21 PM, said:

People who liked to play with their friends couldn't before soup queue. The group queue was dead, it simply did not find matches which meant if you wanted to play with your friends you had no place to go. Sure, you could play solo, but what if some people only wanted to play with friends? What if being in a unit was the main draw towards the game, as it was for me, and many others? The answer is simple; you didn't play. You left. You found something else to play with your friends because if you were a group player, you had nowhere to go.

This is the definition of being excluded.

Your desire to curate your own competition represents a far lower priority than making the game playable and accessible for all who would like to play it, how they would like to play it. Despite your protests, there's no way to argue your way around this. You, a T5, would like some people removed from the game so you can move up in tiers without the fear (which I can only assume others have impressed upon you) that you'll be pug stomped by D A T A; a thing that has happened to me, maybe, 3 times, and only while I was myself, playing in a group.

Your vision for the game is deeply exclusionary and you know it.



https://twitter.com/...713082436149250

Reposted since you didn't bother reading the tweet where he explicitly states



So to repeat what I have already stated above, and has been stated by the President of Piranha Games; there is no technical way to make a separate group queue viable; either group queue is empty, or solo queue is cannibalized to make the group queue whole.

Soup queue is already a compromise, the 4 person group limit is, by all standards, rather stringent, but necessary to keep the queue functional for the largest number of people.

https://leaderboard.isengrim.org/stats

In addition to that, linking the drop in players that followed without acknowledging that numbers more or less spiked upwards from season 50 to 58 seems disingenuous, especially when drops in population can come from multiple sources, like it being the middle of summer, during a COVID lull, when everyone thought they were going back to work. I have about as much evidence that was the cause as you have proof that it was soup queue; all anecdotal, so don't pass it off like its a silver bullet.

Wow, you just flat out made stuff up again. The tweet you quoted was about allowing solo players to also opt in to group queue to fill in teams, which many people asked for in lieu of doing soup. It had nothing to do with the viability of a separate group queue - which already existed prior to soup. Why are reaching so hard?

And while you seem to have just discovered it, I specifically made mention of the growth from season 50, which happened precisely at the time that PGI hired Daeron and announced they would begin allocating development resources to MWO again. But you want to say that after a 4 month decline post soup queue implementation, people suddenly started playing because they could drop in groups? Had nothing to do with PGI's development announcement....

As for your soft banning comments, again, you don't get to have it both ways. If returning to a solo queue is soft banning people who want to play with friends, then going to a soup queue is soft banning people who don't want to drop with groups. IOW, it's not a soft ban. You can still play the game. Just not the way you want. The same exact thing happened to solo players when soup was implemented. Goose, gander. Pot, kettle. Whatever.

As for the attempted Tier/skill shaming, check your Jarl's stats. This account was in the 98th percentile when it was last used. Just because it hasn't been played since the Tier reset doesn't mean I don't know how to play. If I took your approach I would've dismissed your arguments already since I have higher stats - but that has never come into play. I'm saying you're wrong because your arguments are internally contradictory and you're ignoring facts. The fact that you'd attempt to use my Tier ranking to dismiss me is telling.

[Gasboy]

VeeOt Dragon, on 11 December 2022 - 01:15 PM, said:

you know i wouldn't mind the groups in QP if the MM could actually handle them properly. sadly we barely have the population for the MM to work right without groups let alone to get it to work with them.

i'm ok with a single 4 person group per team though. i'm not a huge fan but understand why the did it and why it must continue. (well at least until PGI gets off their collective asses and do some actual advertising to bring in fresh blood)

FP will be dead soon as well and i mostly blame the 12 person pug stomper groups for that. no one wants to play a game mode where you wait almost an hour at times for a match only to get stomped by some elitist shitbags because you dropped solo or in a small group.

How about blaming the devs for setting the game up that way, instead of the people playing it as intended? Are they elitist for winning? For using teamwork and voice comms and practising together as a team?

[pbiggz]

SFC174, on 15 December 2022 - 08:19 AM, said:

Wow, you just flat out made stuff up again. The tweet you quoted was about allowing solo players to also opt in to group queue to fill in teams, which many people asked for in lieu of doing soup. It had nothing to do with the viability of a separate group queue - which already existed prior to soup. Why are reaching so hard?

Oh man you're right that's true except for how russ specifically says it a soup queue is the "best possible option right now" in the thread? Don't pretend to be stupid. I know you understand this, you just don't want to admit it and you're accusing me of making stuff up to cover for it. You can stop that now.

SFC174, on 15 December 2022 - 08:19 AM, said:

And while you seem to have just discovered it, I specifically made mention of the growth from season 50, which happened precisely at the time that PGI hired Daeron and announced they would begin allocating development resources to MWO again. But you want to say that after a 4 month decline post soup queue implementation, people suddenly started playing because they could drop in groups? Had nothing to do with PGI's development announcement....

Of all the people who play this game, only a tiny fraction ever check forums, or news feeds. The vastly majority just log in and play. They stay if its fun, they leave if it's not. That plays out over any online game. Daeron coming onboard probably resulted in a small bump, but only among those who were previously heavily invested.

SFC174, on 15 December 2022 - 08:19 AM, said:

As for your soft banning comments, again, you don't get to have it both ways. If returning to a solo queue is soft banning people who want to play with friends, then going to a soup queue is soft banning people who don't want to drop with groups. IOW, it's not a soft ban. You can still play the game. Just not the way you want. The same exact thing happened to solo players when soup was implemented. Goose, gander. Pot, kettle. Whatever.

No its not. Its objectively not. The soup queue serves the most people. Group/Solo queue with a dead group queue excludes more people.

This isn't hard to understand. If the group queue is dead, then group players can't play. The notion that this is anything remotely comparable to your fate; which is to spend all your time deluding yourselves into thinking you'll win more if you can get those players out of your queue, is laughable.

As is every other response you've made. There is no consistent defense of a solo-only and separate group queue in a game this small. It doesn't work technically. It isn't fair to anyone. You can't honestly come up here and act like curating your own competition so you'll win more is a defensible position.

SFC174, on 15 December 2022 - 08:19 AM, said:

As for the attempted Tier/skill shaming, check your Jarl's stats. This account was in the 98th percentile when it was last used. Just because it hasn't been played since the Tier reset doesn't mean I don't know how to play. If I took your approach I would've dismissed your arguments already since I have higher stats - but that has never come into play. I'm saying you're wrong because your arguments are internally contradictory and you're ignoring facts. The fact that you'd attempt to use my Tier ranking to dismiss me is telling.

I don't give a **** about your tier, I give a **** about your willingness to lie about your own experience because you think PGI will curate your competition the more you do. That's not ******* fair. You don't get to have that. Stop asking for it. Stop lying. You have no right to expect other players to pay for you to have a "better" time. Neither do I, or anyone else. I can't ******* expect PGI to self-destruct this game just because I think doing so will make my match experience better, and I will continue to call out anyone who does, and anyone who lies while they're doing it. So consider that your ******* notice. Every ******* mewling half-argument you counter with will have a big ol' "this is a lie" posted right below it so anyone who has the misfortune of passing by can see it.

[VeeOt Dragon]

Gasboy, on 15 December 2022 - 08:37 AM, said:

How about blaming the devs for setting the game up that way, instead of the people playing it as intended? Are they elitist for winning? For using teamwork and voice comms and practising together as a team?

thats why i have often made a suggestion of simply altering the way groups work in FP. of course no one listens as usual and the overly competitive minority will scream about it. you don't have to put in a full match maker just limit the max group size to 4 but allow as many groups as will fit. you simply set the MM to put in groups and then fill any remaining space with solos. i mean competitive units will still sync drop and since they all seem to use some outside program (discord, teamspeak, ext.) instead of the in-game coms the only thing this would do is maybe break them up a bit. that way you might have two units on one side with maybe a few solos to pad things out and if your lucky a unit on the pug side to help even things out. i don't know what it is about FP but the so called "elite" units always seem to be on the same faction at any given time (though that could just be confirmation bias as i never grouped up with a unit so was almost always in a full solo group vs a full 12 man unit drop)

not against teamwork and communication (hell its a requirement) or people getting together to practice (though honestly if you are putting that much effort and time into video game as if it is some competitive sport with a national trophy or cash prize (never understood the draw of the whole E-Sports thing) you might need to rethink a few things about your life, not judging just an opinion. (to continue the sports analogy i see MWO more like getting together with some friends on the weekend to toss the old pig skin, or play some friendly hoops)). its the toxic elitist mindset that sets me off (i used to play FP way back in the day as a solo but i just couldn't stand the toxicity of the competitive units. the whole, unless you are T1 or only play the mechs and builds we say you should play you need to get out of FP sort of mentality).

Edited by VeeOt Dragon, 15 December 2022 - 05:14 PM.

[PocketYoda]

pbiggz, on 10 December 2022 - 08:36 PM, said:

You've built yourself a reputation on wanting to shamelessly curate your own competition soooooo...

Its funny..

The whole reason groups are now integrated with standard quickplay was because the team quickplay died due to the fact not enough groups were able to viably have matches and the group quickplay took ages to get a match..

So which is it too many groups or not enough.. lets put them back to group quickplay and see how long it lasts with no seal clubbing to keep them happy..

Edited by PocketYoda, 15 December 2022 - 06:05 PM.

[pbiggz]

PocketYoda, on 15 December 2022 - 06:05 PM, said:

Its funny..

The whole reason groups are now integrated with standard quickplay was because the team quickplay died due to the fact not enough groups were able to viably have matches and the group quickplay took ages to get a match..

So which is it too many groups or not enough.. lets put them back to group quickplay and see how long it lasts with no seal clubbing to keep them happy..

Do you think this reply makes you look clever? Because it doesn't. This has been explained about 8 ******* times now, and you, a 49 year old man, chose not to read it. That's a you problem.

[ccrider]

pbiggz, on 15 December 2022 - 06:32 PM, said:

Do you think this reply makes you look clever? Because it doesn't. This has been explained about 8 ******* times now, and you, a 49 year old man, chose not to read it. That's a you problem.

For the sake of argument, let's say the anti-group people got their wish. Next, we'd need to curate the tiers to eliminate anyone in the tier they exist in who's a better player. Then you'd have to remove any weapons that are a hard counter to how that particular person plays. Then you'd have to remove maps that don't complement that person's playstyle. I admire you calling out their ******** but you'll never win; it's hard to argue with people who continually move the goal posts and sift through stats until they find something/anything that may be used to defend their position, regardless of whether those statistics or data points actually mean what they tell you they mean. Fact of the matter is this; all the bitching and moaning in the world means nothing; no big changes are coming. This is the game, for better or worse, that we are all saddled with till the servers shut down.

Edited by ccrider, 15 December 2022 - 10:03 PM.

[Gasboy]

VeeOt Dragon, on 15 December 2022 - 05:07 PM, said:

thats why i have often made a suggestion of simply altering the way groups work in FP. of course no one listens as usual and the overly competitive minority will scream about it. you don't have to put in a full match maker just limit the max group size to 4 but allow as many groups as will fit. you simply set the MM to put in groups and then fill any remaining space with solos. i mean competitive units will still sync drop and since they all seem to use some outside program (discord, teamspeak, ext.) instead of the in-game coms the only thing this would do is maybe break them up a bit. that way you might have two units on one side with maybe a few solos to pad things out and if your lucky a unit on the pug side to help even things out. i don't know what it is about FP but the so called "elite" units always seem to be on the same faction at any given time (though that could just be confirmation bias as i never grouped up with a unit so was almost always in a full solo group vs a full 12 man unit drop)

not against teamwork and communication (hell its a requirement) or people getting together to practice (though honestly if you are putting that much effort and time into video game as if it is some competitive sport with a national trophy or cash prize (never understood the draw of the whole E-Sports thing) you might need to rethink a few things about your life, not judging just an opinion. (to continue the sports analogy i see MWO more like getting together with some friends on the weekend to toss the old pig skin, or play some friendly hoops)). its the toxic elitist mindset that sets me off (i used to play FP way back in the day as a solo but i just couldn't stand the toxicity of the competitive units. the whole, unless you are T1 or only play the mechs and builds we say you should play you need to get out of FP sort of mentality).

Well, sync drops are a thing, I get that, but since PGI doesn't punish it, and since they've made no effort to prevent it (not sure how you would, but there's probably a way or two), I don't have an issue with that. People sync drop with streamers too, or just as a group of randoms. Been there, done that.

Whenever I've dropped into the random queue with my clan as a group, we make an effort to coordinate with the rest of the team using the in game chat. Maybe it might be elitist for groups to not talk to their team mates, but I don't blame them. There's often resistance from team mates when suggestions are made over coms. Stuff like "the atlas is weak CT", or "go for the right leg on the Marauder", and even "okay, that assault is isolated, lets push him" earns harrassment or people ignoring it. After a while of trying to coordinate and being dissed for it, people give up trying. So if those 'elitist' players are quiet in in-game coms, there's probably a reason other than "Couldn't be arsed". Yes, some people are quite toxic, but it's not because they're part of a clan or group. It's because they're jerks.

You say you're not judging, but you are. You don't see why people do it, but if we do, we should consider rethinking our lives?

You know that this past comp season did have real money prizes, right? And uh... comp season is short for competitive.

Heh, so you see shooting some hoops as just a way to have fun with friends... but hey, that whole PRO basketball league you're going to ignore? All "pro" sports are just games, many of them started as amateur leagues, most of them just a bunch of people wanting to have fun with friends and then realizing there was a bigger thing to be had.

So what's wrong with a video game being competitive? I challenge the 'sport' label attached to it, obviously you can't compare it to the people who've trained all their lives to play basketball or soccer at high levels with people working a keyboard and mouse. But there's still practise involved, skills involved, coordination involved.

I mean, reconsider my life? I still have social life, I do a 9 to 5 job, do the friends and family thing, keep a roof over my head... but hey, reconsider my life because I like to play a video game competitively.

[VeeOt Dragon]

no i see "pro" sports even collage sports since those folks often have their schooling completely covered more as a job than a game, they make millions and are paid no mater what even a player that only plays in a game or two still gets paid enough that i could live the rest of my life on one year of their pay. not to mention they likely get better health care than i do. there might be an MWO championship but i doubt the teams get a daily paycheck and only the very top teams get any cash.

and no i am not judging if thats what you want to do then do it, just don't force those of us that just want a few hours of enjoyment to be you practice dummies. hell if i found myself spending more than say 6 hours a day regularly playing any video game i would take a step back and look at things in my life. (hell i'm a disabled Veteran and can't work but i try not to spend my whole free time playing video games.. mind you i still have no social life but thats more because of mental issues and every time i leave the house i have to make sure i can fit the gas in my budget. its one of the reasons i love MWO, its a Free to Play game in one of my favorite universes that is about as far from pay to win that you will find in a free game)

Edited by VeeOt Dragon, 16 December 2022 - 05:48 AM.

[Akamia Terizen]

Most e-sport games with professional leagues do see their professional players getting paid as their job. This probably does not apply to MWO, nor do I expect it to for the foreseeable future; as a participant in this year’s championship, I’m not seeing a cent of that prize money, and no one is paying me just for showing up. It is a thing, though, for better or worse. E-sports and “real” sports are both very reliant on sponsors for funding, I’ve noticed; there’s an awful lot of branding most of the time…

[sycocys]

Gasboy, on 16 December 2022 - 05:05 AM, said:

Whenever I've dropped into the random queue with my clan as a group, we make an effort to coordinate with the rest of the team using the in game chat. Maybe it might be elitist for groups to not talk to their team mates, but I don't blame them. There's often resistance from team mates when suggestions are made over coms. Stuff like "the atlas is weak CT", or "go for the right leg on the Marauder", and even "okay, that assault is isolated, lets push him" earns harrassment or people ignoring it. After a while of trying to coordinate and being dissed for it, people give up trying. So if those 'elitist' players are quiet in in-game coms, there's probably a reason other than "Couldn't be arsed". Yes, some people are quite toxic, but it's not because they're part of a clan or group. It's because they're jerks.

Sometimes the rage on those comms against folks that want to communicate and call matches is worse than I've ever seen on the forums, even if the communication wins the match.

The funny one last night was a guy that died because he pressed long before the assaults could engage, we got up and started rolling in while the lights pulled a few off to the base and just pushed over the other team as a result. Dude that died carried on from the point of death until well into the results screen.

[VeeOt Dragon]

all depends on the match if i stick around after i die if i die early (i am rarely the first to die but it is usually because i made some mistake in positioning or was in a slow assault that got left behind in the nascar though that isn't as common because i don't really play the super slow assaults.). if it looks interesting i will stay and might even still give some shot calls or some advice (normally its "hey so and so hit R it will give you targeting data" or "such and such mech is center cored"). hell if its one of those matches were the shot calls aren't all that needed i might just talk about builds or Lore or whatever. hell i often talk some during the walk up. sometimes lately its been something like "lets see how this stolen Mad Cat does" (yes i mean the Timberwolf because i am an IS loyalist and that is the IS name for it. and my head cannon on that mech is that i stole it, killed the Clanner while he was out taking a piss and stole his mech. my Timberwolf was the first or second Clan mech i got might have been third i don't remember. it was one of the free give-a-way mechs though) though that was just because i was testing out the changes to ATMs
.

Edited by VeeOt Dragon, 16 December 2022 - 07:10 AM.

[Gasboy]

VeeOt Dragon, on 16 December 2022 - 05:44 AM, said:

and no i am not judging if thats what you want to do then do it, just don't force those of us that just want a few hours of enjoyment to be you practice dummies.

Are you talking about people verbally using you as a punching bag? People shouldn't do that, and you should report those that do.

If you're saying people who are better at the game shouldn't play? I disagree.

sycocys, on 16 December 2022 - 06:32 AM, said:

Sometimes the rage on those comms against folks that want to communicate and call matches is worse than I've ever seen on the forums, even if the communication wins the match.

The funny one last night was a guy that died because he pressed long before the assaults could engage, we got up and started rolling in while the lights pulled a few off to the base and just pushed over the other team as a result. Dude that died carried on from the point of death until well into the results screen.

The ones that make me mad are the ones who harrass women who play and make calls on targets and tactics. The hate there is real. :|

[sycocys]

Gasboy, on 16 December 2022 - 07:29 AM, said:

The ones that make me mad are the ones who harrass women who play and make calls on targets and tactics. The hate there is real. :|

I haven't ran into that, occasionally some 20 something poking fun at the obvious young fella on comms. Would probably have a hard time not getting a tk if I ran into someone being abusive like that over the comms. Or an all chat - " 'x player' is being an abusive pile of trash on the comms, if you target him our team will not come to his defense currently in G10"

Usually its a bunch of terrible language or whining followed by a mute, wish the game would hold mutes between matches.

[JuggernautXTR]

today i landed in a pug group twice in a row, both times the pug group stated very clearly "stay grouped up"......what happened, the team scattered across the map as soon as we dropped......the pug group on the other side annihilated everyone in about 7 minutes.
all i heard was complaining that we should have won.............yes we could have if the team had listened in the first place. the pug group was very communicative at calling shots and what not. was only able to get 3 kills total match before the other team rolled up over the hill in mass(death ball).we got caught trying but to no use,they all took turns peeking and firing as not to absorb cumulative damage on one mech.
until the rookies and the ignorant understand the true format of this game, things are not going to get any better.
again this is a "TEAM DROP"(group drop)ignoring that fact alone is the problem.

i wish a post was made that people have to read before they even get to the academy, and that academy taught that this is group play and the benefits of playing as a team and not a 1v12 match a PVE.

[Glymbol]

pbiggz, on 09 December 2022 - 05:26 PM, said:

You can hold any opinion you like, but im well within my rights to tell you if its stupid, and it is.

Oh, I guess I won't be wasting time reading you posts any more. I have better things to do than being insulted by a random guy on the Internet.

[pbiggz]

Glymbol, on 19 December 2022 - 02:51 PM, said:

Oh, I guess I won't be wasting time reading you posts any more. I have better things to do than being insulted by a random guy on the Internet.

lol