23 replies to this topic

[Viltor]

My team sat on a flag for 10 minutes without doing anything, because some guy said "we have nowhere to hurry".

[JediPanther]

Technical wins are boring but it was a sound strategy in skirmish which is surprising the team stuck to it without some one running off and dying. You can and did win by the "most kills in time limit" objective. Such a ploy was often called going basement on hpg hoping to draw in the enemy into a choke point to be focused down. What usally happens is the lemmings get bored and go out to die one by one to the enemy leaving you stuck in the basement and down a lot of mechs curssing the idiots that couldn't follow the plan.

Wining by objective can also mean a win like getting enough caps blue that even with a 1-12 steam roll you win due to 750 faster than the enemy.

[martian]

Viltor, on 11 December 2022 - 12:48 AM, said:

My team sat on a flag for 10 minutes without doing anything, because some guy said "we have nowhere to hurry".

Your screenshot shows that you are missing two thirds of your 'Mech. Also, your lancemate is missing a half of his Madcat.

The other two lancemates have also bruised 'Mechs. Thus, your words that you sat there "without doing anything" are not entirely accurate. Obviously, there was some intense action before you took that screenshot.

And if I am reading your Minimap correctly, the rest of your team is fully engaged.

[HartAtak]

Since Viltor has left names visible, I believe I can comment.

A call was made by one of the team to hold and trade, which most of the team did. Viltor plus one other decided to flank so far away from the team that when they ran into trouble, there was no-one near enough to provide support despite his desperate calls for help via the command wheel.

He managed to slink back to the rest of the team without most of his mech and proceeded to berate the team via chat about perceived lack of activity.

Meanwhile the team continued to soften the reds until around the time of his screenshot when the two teams finally reached brawling range.

The match finally ended a few minutes after his screenshot with a 12-5 win to our team. It wouldn’t have ended so quickly at the end if the reds hadn’t been sufficiently weakened via extended trading.

Not every game has to be a nascar.....

[Viltor]

martian, on 11 December 2022 - 09:05 AM, said:

Your screenshot shows that you are missing two thirds of your 'Mech. Also, your lancemate is missing a half of his Madcat.

The other two lancemates have also bruised 'Mechs. Thus, your words that you sat there "without doing anything" are not entirely accurate. Obviously, there was some intense action before you took that screenshot.

And if I am reading your Minimap correctly, the rest of your team is fully engaged.

What Madcat? I don't have any Madcats in my lance.

I went to scout ahead, but got pinned by 3 light mechs. For 9 minutes whole team sat on top of our flag, enemies did the same. They only moved when someone mentioned that time is running out.

[Viltor]

HartAtak, on 11 December 2022 - 10:02 AM, said:

Since Viltor has left names visible, I believe I can comment.

A call was made by one of the team to hold and trade, which most of the team did. Viltor plus one other decided to flank so far away from the team that when they ran into trouble, there was no-one near enough to provide support despite his desperate calls for help via the command wheel.

He managed to slink back to the rest of the team without most of his mech and proceeded to berate the team via chat about perceived lack of activity.

Meanwhile the team continued to soften the reds until around the time of his screenshot when the two teams finally reached brawling range.

The match finally ended a few minutes after his screenshot with a 12-5 win to our team. It wouldn’t have ended so quickly at the end if the reds hadn’t been sufficiently weakened via extended trading.

Not every game has to be a nascar.....

By trading you mean sniping at 1200 distance? Enemies were so far that I didn't see any locks.
My guess is we won because enemies had more ballistic weapons and they run out of ammo.

This post is not about "bad team", because both teams were super passive. It's about the fact that noone died for 10 minutes.
You know, this game is not only about winning, but also having fun. Watching "meta" long range warriors peppers each other from different corners of the map kills all fun.

[martian]

Viltor, on 11 December 2022 - 10:08 AM, said:

What Madcat? I don't have any Madcats in my lance.

I am sorry: Madcat is the Inner Sphere code word for Timber Wolf.

Viltor, on 11 December 2022 - 10:08 AM, said:

I went to scout ahead, but got pinned by 3 light mechs. For 9 minutes whole team sat on top of our flag, enemies did the same. They only moved when someone mentioned that time is running out.

Viltor, on 11 December 2022 - 10:15 AM, said:

By trading you mean sniping at 1200 distance? Enemies were so far that I didn't see any locks.
My guess is we won because enemies had more ballistic weapons and they run out of ammo.

You do not have to have a lock to hit enemy 'Mech, especially if you can see it with your own eyes.

Also, damaging enemy 'Mech while taking less damage (ideally, no damage at all) in return is a valid tactic.

Viltor, on 11 December 2022 - 10:08 AM, said:

This post is not about "bad team", because both teams were super passive. It's about the fact that noone died for 10 minutes.
You know, this game is not only about winning, but also having fun. Watching "meta" long range warriors peppers each other from different corners of the map kills all fun.

Play as you like and let PSR sort it out. Eventually, you will end up in the Tier that would be the most suitable for you.

Edited by martian, 11 December 2022 - 10:50 AM.

[MechMaster059]

Viltor, on 11 December 2022 - 10:08 AM, said:

...

I went to scout ahead, but got pinned by 3 light mechs. ...

You did the right thing scouting ahead and getting killed Viltor. I'm not being sarcastic.

Whenever someone makes a "do nothing" call in Skirmish or Assault I pretend to play along but in my mind I begin a 2 minute countdown. If the enemy doesn't move or lose a mech at the end of that time I intentionally move out of formation to attack them on my own knowing full well I'll probably get killed.

Then what I like to do is give my team one of these kinds of comments in chat:
"I guess you all have to move out now or lose the match."

I don't log into this game to sit there and do nothing. I join matches to fight enemy mechs.

=====

All that being said, I suggest 2 enhancements be made to Skirmish mode to discourage this kind of passive play:

1. If no mechs have died at the end of the match then both teams lose. (Not a tie)

2. If no damage is dealt in a 3 minute timespan then the match immediately ends. This timer would start counting down 2 minutes after match start and reset every time a mech deals damage to an enemy. (Friendly fire doesn't count. 5 minutes to deal first damage, 3 minutes after that. A damage timer could be added to the UI just below the match timer.)

Edited by MechMaster059, 12 December 2022 - 04:34 AM.

[Viltor]

martian, on 11 December 2022 - 10:27 AM, said:

Play as you like and let PSR sort it out. Eventually, you will end up in the Tier that would be the most suitable for you.

I'm tier 1, this is what happening in top rank.

martian, on 11 December 2022 - 10:27 AM, said:

You do not have to have a lock to hit enemy 'Mech, especially if you can see it with your own eyes.

Usually you see some enemies that don't have ECM, or got hit by PPC.

Edited by Viltor, 11 December 2022 - 08:22 PM.

[dario03]

I'm going to say not world record. I had a match way back in the day where both teams refused to make a move so we just sat there for almost 15 minutes. Then somebody on the enemy team got mad about it, so he threw his mech into our firing line and died pretty much right at the end of the match. Was like 100 damage done in the entire match. And this is why conquest is the best mode.

[martian]

Viltor, on 11 December 2022 - 08:19 PM, said:

I'm tier 1, this is what happening in top rank.

Personally I do not see such games too often.

Viltor, on 11 December 2022 - 08:19 PM, said:

Usually you see some enemies that don't have ECM, or got hit by PPC.

They can be within the range of some enemy 'Mech's ECM without carrying one themselves.

Also, they can be simply out of your sensor range.

[Viltor]

martian, on 12 December 2022 - 10:21 AM, said:

Personally I do not see such games too often.

Me neither. That's why i posted this. It's unusual.
Couple of times i had games where my team camped mountain in Alpine Peaks, or went the long way around it. But Grim Plexus is good map, where brawlers can engage.

[martian]

Viltor, on 12 December 2022 - 07:52 PM, said:

Me neither. That's why i posted this. It's unusual.
Couple of times i had games where my team camped mountain in Alpine Peaks, or went the long way around it. But Grim Plexus is good map, where brawlers can engage.

The problem with the Alpine Peaks is not the map itself, but the static objective(s) and the static drop zones that force both teams move to the same spots, while essentially "forcing" them to leave 90% of the map unused.

[crazytimes]

martian, on 12 December 2022 - 09:35 PM, said:

The problem with the Alpine Peaks is not the map itself, but the static objective(s) and the static drop zones that force both teams move to the same spots, while essentially "forcing" them to leave 90% of the map unused.

Like new polar and new Terra therma. Why redesign maps and make them large... but with areas absolutely no one will ever even see, let alone use? I feel like escort used a bit of the maps less commonly seen, but that had its own problems...

[MrMadguy]

It was norm back in old Polar times:

[martian]

crazytimes, on 13 December 2022 - 10:09 PM, said:

Like new polar and new Terra therma. Why redesign maps and make them large... but with areas absolutely no one will ever even see, let alone use? I feel like escort used a bit of the maps less commonly seen, but that had its own problems...

The reason is that PGI can do only static objectives. In game modes such as Domination, Incursion, Conquest, etc you must go where the objective is, so you can not fight in less visited areas of the map, even if you would like to.

[MrMadguy]

martian, on 14 December 2022 - 08:12 AM, said:

The reason is that PGI can do only static objectives. In game modes such as Domination, Incursion, Conquest, etc you must go where the objective is, so you can not fight in less visited areas of the map, even if you would like to.

Reason - half of team is slow and that's by design. Devs first tried "Make variety of environments to cater to different 'Mech classes and playstyles" approach, but it didn't work. Mostly because small map doesn't gimp lights, LRM boats and snipers, while big map gimps assaults and brawlers. It's clear imbalance, that can be fixed one way only - via providing balanced maps. That's why map voting has been implemented. If majority of players wants imbalanced map - they can get it. Or if player tries to get it for 10th time - he has greater chance to get it. But if majority of players want balanced map - they vote for balanced map.

But it's completely different thing, that may be there is no reason to remove unpopular imbalanced maps, if they already exist, but at the same time it's pointless to waste resources on making them.

Edited by MrMadguy, 14 December 2022 - 10:30 PM.

[Weeny Machine]

martian, on 11 December 2022 - 09:05 AM, said:

Your screenshot shows that you are missing two thirds of your 'Mech. Also, your lancemate is missing a half of his Madcat.

The other two lancemates have also bruised 'Mechs. Thus, your words that you sat there "without doing anything" are not entirely accurate. Obviously, there was some intense action before you took that screenshot.

And if I am reading your Minimap correctly, the rest of your team is fully engaged.

Ok, they played the usual whack-a-mole meta gameplay. Now, satisfied?

[PocketYoda]

I'm so glad i'm not tier 1... Makes me glad the lemmings exist in tier 4..

HartAtak, on 11 December 2022 - 10:02 AM, said:

Since Viltor has left names visible, I believe I can comment.

A call was made by one of the team to hold and trade, which most of the team did. Viltor plus one other decided to flank so far away from the team that when they ran into trouble, there was no-one near enough to provide support despite his desperate calls for help via the command wheel.

He managed to slink back to the rest of the team without most of his mech and proceeded to berate the team via chat about perceived lack of activity.

Meanwhile the team continued to soften the reds until around the time of his screenshot when the two teams finally reached brawling range.

The match finally ended a few minutes after his screenshot with a 12-5 win to our team. It wouldn’t have ended so quickly at the end if the reds hadn’t been sufficiently weakened via extended trading.

Not every game has to be a nascar.....

Thats funny because tier 4 does that exact thing but with less communication lol

Edited by PocketYoda, 15 December 2022 - 04:39 PM.

[martian]

crazytimes, on 13 December 2022 - 10:09 PM, said:

Like new polar and new Terra therma. Why redesign maps and make them large... but with areas absolutely no one will ever even see, let alone use? I feel like escort used a bit of the maps less commonly seen, but that had its own problems...

You can ask the MWO Community Manager Daeron Katz, when you see him around.

MrMadguy, on 14 December 2022 - 10:23 PM, said:

Reason - half of team is slow and that's by design. Devs first tried "Make variety of environments to cater to different 'Mech classes and playstyles" approach, but it didn't work. Mostly because small map doesn't gimp lights, LRM boats and snipers, while big map gimps assaults and brawlers. It's clear imbalance, that can be fixed one way only - via providing balanced maps. That's why map voting has been implemented. If majority of players wants imbalanced map - they can get it. Or if player tries to get it for 10th time - he has greater chance to get it. But if majority of players want balanced map - they vote for balanced map.

But it's completely different thing, that may be there is no reason to remove unpopular imbalanced maps, if they already exist, but at the same time it's pointless to waste resources on making them.

Being light 'Mech or Assault 'Mech says nothing about the 'Mech's battlefield role: You can design UrbanMech as brawler or as sniper. You can design BattleMaster as brawler or as sniper too.

PocketYoda, on 15 December 2022 - 04:37 PM, said:

I'm so glad i'm not tier 1... Makes me glad the lemmings exist in tier 4..

Thats funny because tier 4 does that exact thing but with less communication lol

If your team agrees on some tactics, it is often a good thing to follow the suit, instead of doing something opposite.