83 replies to this topic

[VeeOt Dragon]

i have seen it pop up many times in this thread and it is honestly the main reason so many people avoid FP like the plague that it is. the whole elitist mindset of "only allow Groups, no Pugs", "only Units should have any say" ********. the toxicity of Units is why after quite a few years i have only been in 3 and none for more than a day or two (my current Unit tag doesn't count because its just me and always has been. its more to make it easy for me to find my name in the end of match leaderboard).

its the elitist mindset that has the population as low as it is today. well that and a broken MM that puts cadets VS T1s (seriously had a match today in QP that had a cadet and a 2 T1s on my team, who knows what the other team had. thankfully it was rather good match and came down to the wire, something i always like but it was more due to the enemy coming at us in ones or twos. if they had used any tactics at all we likely would have lost.)

Edited by VeeOt Dragon, 30 January 2023 - 03:56 PM.

[Kyrie]

Hi everyone,

Its been a while since I have even tried MWO much less FP, but for the record, let me trot out some really old ideas:

• Implement an actual map strategy element to the game that links player setup command structures, player assets and player resources into one shared universe-wide conflict.
  
• Players choose where to attack, and where to defend in a process of defining lances with mechs they own and configure with loadouts. An economic penalty/benefit is then had by their relative performance in the battles.
  
• Imagine if you will the concept of "Heroes and Generals" but made into the BT universe.
  
• Players have a commander that can be leveled up to control more lances... there is a nice progression possible here.

Next, we need to make the map interesting with these elements:

• Terrain features, in the military sense. Planets/systems need to be interesting in terms of their value, their location, and impact on the war effort.
  
• Supply lines need to be a thing.
  
• Players managing their parts, ammo and other consumables needs to be a thing.
  
• Each House and Clan sponsors missions at two levels: large organization (conquer X, Y, Z planets) and individual objectives (conquer X, Y, Z objectives on the planet map.
  
• Each planet in turn has a hex map...

I am not sure why I am posting here again after so many years except to state that my dream of an actual BT military sim has never died.


-Kyrie

Edited by Kyrie, 30 January 2023 - 05:12 PM.

[VeeOt Dragon]

sadly that would require a complete re build of the engine for that game mode. something that is beyond the current capabilities of PGI. honestly we need to start with small easily managed changes that will get at least enough people back to the mode to lower the wit times before they would ever put any more resources into it.

[Kyrie]

VeeOt Dragon, on 01 February 2023 - 02:53 PM, said:

sadly that would require a complete re build of the engine for that game mode. something that is beyond the current capabilities of PGI. honestly we need to start with small easily managed changes that will get at least enough people back to the mode to lower the wit times before they would ever put any more resources into it.

Usually by engine people refer to the graphical part, the actual battles. CryEngine3 in this case I think. Technically nothing needs to change in this component, what would be needed is a lot of UI work, database, and rules-logic. Yes, its not likely to ever happen-- but the mode can be implemented without touching anything in the actual battles.

[Sawk]

hmm -- its all about leadership--- a 4 man unit, you guys just want to FOLLOW, but not lead, it is a wonder ---- some folks can lead and have few that do well in battle, stop over thinking --- : )

SAWK CLANNER -- off to get my kills

[Jugger Grimrod]

"Back in the day..." there were a few player-generated Faction Warfare "leagues", such as Proxis and NetBattleTech (NBT). Personally, I loved the immersion of NBT, where the economy of the factions determined the production and availability of mechs, dropships (DS) and jumpships (JS). Mech assets would be transported from factory world to frontline via DS and JS "circuits". Mech production was "lore-based", so factions could only produce native chassis' and variants, although enemy mechs could be salvaged AND reverse engineered. Battles were scheduled and fought in Private Lobbies where we could set the maps and rules for each engagement, however. Units would RP entire IS Houses/Periphery Realms/Merc Units. The politics were REAL, with alliances and contracts being as useful weapons as PPCs and gauss rifles. Lots of good times during two seasons of NBT - a player-based (supported) version of what FW could be like (using the code that already exists).

[Will9761]

I'd actually make factions much more appealing instead of being glorified game and forum icons. There's nothing wrong if you love a faction from things like Field Manuals, Sourcebooks, Handbooks, etc but there needs to be more fanfare given to them in MWO. Now, I understand that people like to call factions "Skittles", but honestly they are more like "M&M's". At least skittles have a different flavor to them that makes them unique, while M&M's have the same chocolate flavor no matter which color they are.This is what factions currently are: M&M's. Here is what I would do to make factions different and unique.

• Faction Rivalry Month Event: Kill Players who have a rival faction icon in FP and or QP
  
  
  Rewards (Davion vs Kurita for example): Faction Decal, Free Faction Skin Unlock for any IS Mech, Enemy Salvage based on Rival Faction's mechs.

• 25% Loyal Boost to players who wear a faction skins and decals in FP and QP. For example, wearing a Steiner Decal and Skin on a Javelin will give you 50% loyalty boost together.
  
• 25% Piloting a Faction Mech based on your faction. For example, a Davion Player piloting an Enforcer, a Kurita Player piloting a Hatamoto-Chi, or a Clan Ghost Bear Player piloting a Kodiak in FP and/or QP giving them a LP boost.

Also it would be nice to have the old planetary conquest system just to have the old community events like the Battle of Wazan again.

Edited by Will9761, 12 February 2023 - 10:37 PM.

[Bowelhacker]

VeeOt Dragon, on 30 January 2023 - 03:54 PM, said:

i have seen it pop up many times in this thread and it is honestly the main reason so many people avoid FP like the plague that it is. the whole elitist mindset of "only allow Groups, no Pugs", "only Units should have any say" ********. the toxicity of Units is why after quite a few years i have only been in 3 and none for more than a day or two (my current Unit tag doesn't count because its just me and always has been. its more to make it easy for me to find my name in the end of match leaderboard).

If everywhere you go smells like ****, maybe the **** is you...?

[Davegt27]

Jugger Grimrod, on 01 February 2023 - 07:19 PM, said:

"Back in the day..." there were a few player-generated Faction Warfare "leagues", such as Proxis and NetBattleTech (NBT). Personally, I loved the immersion of NBT, where the economy of the factions determined the production and availability of mechs, dropships (DS) and jumpships (JS). Mech assets would be transported from factory world to frontline via DS and JS "circuits". Mech production was "lore-based", so factions could only produce native chassis' and variants, although enemy mechs could be salvaged AND reverse engineered. Battles were scheduled and fought in Private Lobbies where we could set the maps and rules for each engagement, however. Units would RP entire IS Houses/Periphery Realms/Merc Units. The politics were REAL, with alliances and contracts being as useful weapons as PPCs and gauss rifles. Lots of good times during two seasons of NBT - a player-based (supported) version of what FW could be like (using the code that already exists).

I love hearing from people that where involved in Net Battle Tech (NBT)
apparently they had a player based campaign mode with tons of units
one reason I think it was a good thing is because at the start of "community warfare" ( CW/FP/FW) MWO had a multitude of units

anyways right now we are focused on the fastest, simplest changes that can be made to FP to try to keep things alive

MWO has always reminded me of the story about the frog and the scorpion crossing the river

PGI literally was taking money from there business in an effort to try and please the top 1% of the player population (the 1% is pure speculation)

anyways instead of calling people names lets try to save FP

[The Stases]

Yay defending a big *** gun or something.

I still feel Incursion would be a better game mode for Faction Play then the current Assault/Defend.
Take Incursion game mode out of the Quick Play list for game mode options and move it into Faction Play and get rid of the Defend/Assault game mode.


Also make Faction Play a part of the Event Queue System might just increase the amount of players queueing if it were a weekend event!

I did notice Solaris is now an Event Queue event, but taking the old Solaris System and making it into a 5 v 5; one of each weight class, 6 month Season building up to the actual tournament. Would give teams the ability to build up, as well as PGI time to get more funding for big Prizes like Mechcon.

Maybe restructure what you have laid out for Solaris and make it into a rated Team Play season mode where you can get a team rating of 0-3000; with teams being able to queue with one of each weight class for their squadron against opposing teams. That is something I know all of us want from this game. Pilot Tier would make a lot more sense with a 0-3000 or whatever number rating system.



You now have that many maps to find a way to make into new maps for Quick Play, Season Team Rated Play(Solairs 5v5) and Event Queue.

Edited by The Stases, 16 February 2023 - 04:29 PM.

[-K H A N]

The Stases, on 16 February 2023 - 04:23 PM, said:

Yay defending a big *** gun or something.

I still feel Incursion would be a better game mode for Faction Play then the current Assault/Defend.
Take Incursion game mode out of the Quick Play list for game mode options and move it into Faction Play and get rid of the Defend/Assault game mode.


Also make Faction Play a part of the Event Queue System might just increase the amount of players queueing if it were a weekend event!

I did notice Solaris is now an Event Queue event, but taking the old Solaris System and making it into a 5 v 5; one of each weight class, 6 month Season building up to the actual tournament. Would give teams the ability to build up, as well as PGI time to get more funding for big Prizes like Mechcon.

Maybe restructure what you have laid out for Solaris and make it into a rated Team Play season mode where you can get a team rating of 0-3000; with teams being able to queue with one of each weight class for their squadron against opposing teams. That is something I know all of us want from this game. Pilot Tier would make a lot more sense with a 0-3000 or whatever number rating system.



You now have that many maps to find a way to make into new maps for Quick Play, Season Team Rated Play(Solairs 5v5) and Event Queue.

Terrible.Just terrible.No to all these bad ideas.

[Knownswift]

Incursion is the single worst game mode ever played in faction.

I'd rather attack boreal 9 times in a row with trial mechs than play incursion.

[Kiljaro]

Try looking at what NBT did for the MW3 pr1 lobby system. It worked and was fun. Without wall hacks and aimbots.

[Decency]

I spent quite a bit of time tonight waiting for an FW game to pop. Definitely a frustrating experience, and so I'm not surprised that FW has fallen off. This queuing system used to be SIGNIFICANTLY better, and I don't think player count is the main issue. Some better UI decisions and focus on gameplay modes could be a huge driver in playability, and I'm confident that this can be done without a large development effort.

MODES

1. Skirmish and Assault are weak FW gameplay modes, because they routinely result in spawncamping based on whichever team wins the first battle. This is a serious issue, and unfortunately it has been for years. These modes simply don't belong in Faction Play and should be removed from the rotation.
2. Incursion and Scouting have the potential to be great Faction Play modes, but they need further iteration to become fully baked and at the moment have serious flaws. They should also be kept out of the rotation until the team is ready to invest that additional development time.
3. Conquest, Domination, and Siege are all solid modes. Particularly, I feel strongly that FW Conquest is the single best gameplay experience that MWO has to offer and deserves to be the centerpiece of the mode. Tweaking the Conquest capture score from 1750 -> 1500 and taking a look at the spawn points on some maps would be a great quality of life improvement to make these games more balanced between capturing points and killing Mechs. The goal is to make it infeasible to spawncamp a lance without losing complete map control.
4. If the above is too difficult, simply increase the weapon loadout of the Spawn Dropships dramatically (something like 5-10 times what they carry currently) to forcefully prevent spawncamping. As it stands currently, any group of several competent players can trivially kill spawn-kill enemy Mechs without any chance for the players to meaningfully fight back- horribly debilitating to the game.

UI

1. Reinforcement pop-ups have become spammy, and so players have learned to ignore them. At one point, these were fantastic indicators that you'd be able to quickly get into a game. Currently, Reinforcement Alerts only mean that at least one player is sitting in the queue: https://i.imgur.com/EIi8y8g.png. That's not meaningful, so no one should ever get a reinforcements alert because of it.
2. When 12 players form on either side, they should immediately be placed into a lobby. This is how it used to be and it worked great! At this time- and ONLY at this time- a Reinforcements alert should appear for all of their potential opponents, telling them about the game. These alerts used to cause the game to fill to a full 24 players within minutes virtually every time, and it would be great to get back to that point so that players can reliably find matches instead of spending their time queuing.
3. The War Log no longer shows information (including timestamps) about matches that have recently completed. This used to be a nice way to see how active FW was and determine if it was worth waiting for a game. As a player, it would be great to have this information available again.

Thanks for reading.

Edited by Decency, 25 February 2023 - 04:03 PM.

[Davegt27]

I am losing hope that FP can amount to anything

1) PGI does not know what to do even if you gave the company a billion dollars

2) players are spoiled, they are used to crying and getting there way so PGI spent way to much time trying tweak small things

the current meta is to sit in the back rack up your own personal score then crap on other players when they don't meet your standards

long range vision or short range vision

short range: remove maps and modes, tweak the timers

Long Range: move to a campaign type game
a campaign for teams and individuals
the down side is a campaign is a lot slower progression (players are so used to quick matches and instant gratification)

I got this from a former NBT player

Quote

An interesting thing about us when we started was that we started as mercenaries. We were hired by larger teams when they didn't want to move their resources to address a fight challenge. We were paid to do the fights, and were gifted ships and other resources that we could use if needed. Later we took over from a larger team that left, but I enjoyed the mercenary fights, which allowed our client to engage in fights that were more important to them strategically (permitting them to retain their resources close to strategic locations on the map). A fun thing about the battles was figuring out the ship loadout to use in the battle, since you could only use what you brought to the battle. Eventually, I was in charge of selecting ships and their loadouts for the battle, as well as a few other things. A lot of strategy before you even fight.

Edited by Davegt27, 03 March 2023 - 06:32 AM.

[BROARL]

there are many quality arguments for and against each and every other possibility mentioned above.
i can only imagine rewards are the only feasible, sensible, balanced answer.
rewards attract players from faction to quickplay and it could work both ways.

faction is not what it once was. despite wanting more people to play the few groups who remain often shamelessly stomp anyone who puts a toe in the water, and it is not a fun experience for many, certainly not worth waiting in queue for.
the same rewards that quickplay has may be sufficient to attract sufficient players to reduce queue times and provide opportunity for new players to fight each other.

[Sires Belmont]

The mechanics of the game are not casual friendly. It takes a time to learn the movement of the Mechs. After you got accustomed to it, you learn in QP that Alphas are too big and much too precise. Loosing one of your sidetorsos after one hit is no fun.
Try to hit one of those annoying Lights, they are so fast and so small, it's extreme hard to hit them, and you can't just ram them with your 100 ton monster. The firepower of the small weapons are also much too high, so the firepower of those Lights rivals those of the Assaults. I Know, these are general problems of this game, not FP only. But these are the reasons why i avoid it. I get nuked without any chance from those Ace of Spades already in QP, no further interest in FP where you will find more of them.
You want more players, the game has to be more casual. But we all know that won't be happen in a 10 year old game. But maybe for a next MWO. Make PVP as special mode, do more co-op things, or maybe a mix of it. You can shoot other players, but there are also Ai-driven Tanks, Aircrafts, Turrets and so on. Everything gives Points, everything hurts your Mech. Less focus on Pinpoint-Alphastrikes, more on sustained DPS. Make it more like a real battle in this setting, not just 12 player driven Mechs against 12 other player driven Mechs. Maybe that's far from the Tabletop origins, but much more fun in an Online-Game that needs enough players to make profit and reduce the waitingtime for the next match. That's the reason why Games like the stupid Fortknite are so successful. Casual friendly to attract many players, and even if you loose, the next match (the next try) starts immediatly and the punishing for loosing isn't noticeable.

Edited by Sires Belmont, 06 March 2023 - 02:16 PM.

[evil kerensky]

fw should, imo, accomplish a few things. it should be the place were units are dominant, and also the place were solos can find units. it also needs to add an extra layer of immersion to the barebones gameplay loop. you can do that in a lot of ways, but heres how id do it. keep in mind ill try and make it as simple as possible because complex things and pgi dont mix.

first youd need to bring back planet tagging and unit/player rankings in fw.
after that, your going to want to mix it with dropdeck tonnages. everyone should have a dropdeck tonnage that is dependant on their personal, and unit rankings in fw. nothing extreme, just enough to add an extra layer to the gameplay. if your unit has captured a planet in the past week, -5 tons to your dropdeck. this is really for balance reasons, but you can explain it away to lore people that its because the unit needs to rearm and repair. some planets can be worth more, some less to add fluff, and on low pop nights you can make the engagement for planets with less tonnage to shift pop into qp. if that unit is in the top 10 of all fw units you can give them back their 5 tons as a reward. like before, its for balance, we want to reward engaging gameplay without encouraging gen rushing, but can be explained to the lore people as "this unit is elite so its refit and rearm is expedited.

if you want to get deeper, loyalists can have a blank +5 tons after 1 week of loyalty, with it increasing at regular intervals until capping out after 3 months in the same faction, to discourage without seriously penalizing hopping factions to dodge. in fact tonnage could even be variable (+ or - 5 or 10 tons) based off of population numbers calculated on a weekly basis. and freelancers would have a base dropdeck tonnage that doesnt change ever, but is lower than everyone else by about 5-10 tons, just to encourage people to dive into the factions and units after trying the mode.

and a yearly tukkayid to end an fw season, with all the stats from the entire year taken into account when making the dropdeck tonnages, followed by a reset of fw.

the community will generally supply the rest. it always has. unfortunately this is all pie in the sky dreaming as fw is lostech to pgi, as far as i can tell.

[Duke Falcon]

evil kerensky, on 07 March 2023 - 04:17 AM, said:

fw should, imo, accomplish a few things. it should be the place were units are dominant, and also the place were solos can find units. it also needs to add an extra layer of immersion to the barebones gameplay loop. you can do that in a lot of ways, but heres how id do it. keep in mind ill try and make it as simple as possible because complex things and pgi dont mix.

first youd need to bring back planet tagging and unit/player rankings in fw.
after that, your going to want to mix it with dropdeck tonnages. everyone should have a dropdeck tonnage that is dependant on their personal, and unit rankings in fw. nothing extreme, just enough to add an extra layer to the gameplay. if your unit has captured a planet in the past week, -5 tons to your dropdeck. this is really for balance reasons, but you can explain it away to lore people that its because the unit needs to rearm and repair. some planets can be worth more, some less to add fluff, and on low pop nights you can make the engagement for planets with less tonnage to shift pop into qp. if that unit is in the top 10 of all fw units you can give them back their 5 tons as a reward. like before, its for balance, we want to reward engaging gameplay without encouraging gen rushing, but can be explained to the lore people as "this unit is elite so its refit and rearm is expedited.

if you want to get deeper, loyalists can have a blank +5 tons after 1 week of loyalty, with it increasing at regular intervals until capping out after 3 months in the same faction, to discourage without seriously penalizing hopping factions to dodge. in fact tonnage could even be variable (+ or - 5 or 10 tons) based off of population numbers calculated on a weekly basis. and freelancers would have a base dropdeck tonnage that doesnt change ever, but is lower than everyone else by about 5-10 tons, just to encourage people to dive into the factions and units after trying the mode.

and a yearly tukkayid to end an fw season, with all the stats from the entire year taken into account when making the dropdeck tonnages, followed by a reset of fw.

the community will generally supply the rest. it always has. unfortunately this is all pie in the sky dreaming as fw is lostech to pgi, as far as i can tell.

Actually this sounds interesting... Maybe even worth a try?

[W4R GOD]

Davegt27, on 11 December 2022 - 11:06 AM, said:

the reason I ask is I was watching someone stream MWO
I thought he was new but it turned out he had been playing for 3 years (I feel like 3 years is to long to not have even tried FP)

I have only did 2 drops back in Jan (so I wanted to come here and ask)
trying to get this new player into a faction drop for the first time was a royal pain

so what do you guys think ?

FP UI or entry
FP game play
FP maps
FP balance

any thoughts

I would introduce a statistic that shows attack versus defense matches