35 replies to this topic

[Raging Owlbear]

So I don't know who needs to hear this... and it's not just new players.

STOP PLAYING ASSAULT SNIPERS

You see, there are lots of smaller mechs that can snipe well. Assaults are needed for their armor. If you take 80 to 100 tons off the front lines of the combat, you might as well be a disconnect because that's how much it hurts your team.

Use a #$*%ing smaller mech.

[sosegado]

+1

I couldn't agree more.

[Sawk]

hmm but my sniper mech runs at 72, 90% of timberwolf at 81, i see that much more training is needed.

SAWK CLANNER

[TheCaptainJZ]

I hate sniper mechs as much as the next guy, but those sniping assaults have the firepower to do plenty of damage and win matches so them being on the front lines or not doesn't really seem to be the problem.

[sosegado]

TheCaptainJZ, on 22 December 2022 - 07:34 AM, said:

I hate sniper mechs as much as the next guy, but those sniping assaults have the firepower to do plenty of damage and win matches so them being on the front lines or not doesn't really seem to be the problem.

More likely than not:

Enemy lance sees 1 assault on the front line? "Yummy, lunchtime!"

Long range 'plinking' is ignored. Assault gets wrecked.

Enemy lance sees 4 assaults on the front line? "HELP!"

Enemy lance gets wrecked.

Edited by Stab Wound, 22 December 2022 - 10:41 AM.

[Void Angel]

Your mileage may vary, but what you're describing is more of a sniping methodology problem than anything inherent in Assault sniper builds. A challenge with sniping - in any weight class - is keeping your guns where they matter. Big, slow-firing weapons like an ERPPC take a long time to accumulate meaningful damage numbers. Sure, you'll occasionally hammer three ERPPCs into their face-hole just as they're lining up their first shot of the match (I have a screenshot) - but normally to deal proper damage with those weapons, you need to keep firing, and hit what you shoot at.

There's also a difference between farming damage and doing effective damage, so snipers need to be willing to relocate to help the team, and this is where many Heavy and Assault snipers fail. Yes, enough Gauss rounds scattered haphazardly across the enemy team will make a difference, but if the enemy focuses their fire effectively, it won't be enough. So snipers have to make judgement calls about whether/when to reposition, and it's easier to make a mistake the slower you are.

Take the Dire Wolf C they gave away a bit ago. I'm currently kitted out with 6 UAC/2s; that's dakka, not sniping, but still long-range. I can and do reposition myself around what the team is doing - I'll even brawl if I have to! But the Dire Wolf's area denial capability is insane; because while someone may ignore the "plinking" of a dual-ERPPC Shadowcat, you ignore a Dakka Wolf, or a 50-point Gauss-PPC alpha, at your peril.

The job of any Assault is to make its presence felt. This is true of brawlers as well: even if the opportunity to hard-engage hasn't come, just knowing that there's a brawling Atlas up close to the front line somewhere will encourage the enemy team to righteousness - they tend to suddenly realize the value of temperance and self-restraint. That Atlas still wants to put rounds on target; but he doesn't have to be taking damage all the time to be effective. Long-range Assaults have the same effect, but at range. I've been in a match on Grim Plexus just last week or so, where a long-range Assault and my TDR-9S held off multiple enemy flanking attempts from the left flank and center - protecting our team and dealing significant effective damage to several enemy 'mechs. Conversely, we have all seen "Snipar Warriars" who make a beeline to their favorite camping spot and refuse to move, ever. I've seen entire teams do this - IN DOMINATION! I was so mad. But that's a methodology issue, not anything inherent in how snipers work, and a good sniper will be willing to reposition to get guns on the people who're fighting the team - when it's appropriate.

Assault sniping has its place, because it does benefit the team. Like any role, it requires skill, but done properly it benefits more than just the sniper themself.

Edited by Void Angel, 22 December 2022 - 11:53 AM.

[sosegado]

By Any Other Name, on 22 December 2022 - 03:27 PM, said:

If this is true why do so many teams do their best to abandon the assaults on Hibernal and Canyon in particular

At this point I'm starting to get why assault players choose to hang back and snipe, they get left behind anyway. Or try to push and have the rest of the team use them to feed the proverbial crocodile.

I mean, I just tried to push up the left ridge in Emerald, and the mechs with me bailed the moment they met a lance up there. We had more than a lance going up there, until they decided it was too scary and ran away far faster than I could retreat. So explain why I should be putting my armor on the line for people who are really really eager to throw it away entirely?

I understand this position so well.

I spent many games battling with myself over the answer.

This may sound corny, but in the end I settled on this mantra when I pilot an assault and it's helped me find peace:

'My armor belongs to the team, my ammo belongs to the enemy'.

I hope you find something similar that helps you.

[sosegado]

By Any Other Name, on 22 December 2022 - 04:11 PM, said:

What will help me is me choosing better things for me. What the team does is entirely up to them. I've tried polite suggestions, I've tried brusque commands, I've tried couching suggestions in a joke. I am operating off a default assumption that my teammates don't care what I'm doing until something goes wrong, and then they'll be looking for whatever scapegoats come to hand.

I can do no right, so let me be evil. Get out of my pilot seat and out of my mechlab.

That's a perfectly valid position.

I tried that one also. It wore off after awhile.

Good luck!

[sosegado]

By Any Other Name, on 22 December 2022 - 05:12 PM, said:

I have assault brawlers and assault long ranged. My scores are typically VASTLY better in the long ranged stuff. Pushing and sharing armor isn't particularly helpful if the team refuses to capitalize on it. This seems to happen a lot when I take the initiative. On its own, it's irritating, but them's the breaks.

But here comes OP to screech at me that me opting to play a long ranged assault is the worst thing ever.

OP can either advise me how to support him in the game or he can shut up about what I chose to bring that drop. He does not get to choose my mech, he does not get to choose my loadout. He can choose to steer me towards things that benefit both of us instead of demanding that I take up the thankless mantle of meatshield for him, regardless of my loadout.

He is not the main character. None of us are. None of us are mindreaders, or fortune tellers who know exactly what the next map and team composition are going to be. The most difficult lesson I am learning in this game isn't mechlabbing or map strategies, it's learning how to temper my expectations of my teammates, and OP isn't making me more inclined towards being forgiving or understanding of them. My response to that kind of demand is going to be and always will be "**** you and the horse you rode in on." I'm not your pocket medic. Treat me like a teammate and I'll try to reciprocate. Treat me like an inconvenience or a malfunctioning NPC and I'll cross my fingers that I see you on Red next game.

You do recognize that you and the OP are both venting about team mates they don't control right?

You said you did yours "in game" with:

By Any Other Name, on 22 December 2022 - 05:12 PM, said:

I've tried polite suggestions, I've tried brusque commands, I've tried couching suggestions in a joke.

He did his here in the forums with this topic.

You both have the same goals: Team mates that actually act like team mates.

I suspect you and the OP have more in common then it appears at first glance.

You two should be friends and group up, it sounds like it would make for a lethal combination.

Edited by Stab Wound, 22 December 2022 - 05:40 PM.

[VeeOt Dragon]

honestly i prefer mid range combat. but yeah i can see frustration in Assault snipers but for me its the ones that refuse to reposition and spend the whole match waiting for that shot without doing any noticeable damage. so its not so much the weapons or builds but the player.

i have one real Long range Assault (its my Stalker-3FB) but its a mixed loadout (2 ER LLs, 2 MLs, 2 LRM-15s with ECM of course) don't have the game up so thats as specific as i can get. its does fine but then again i am a very active player so if i don't have a shot i move and try to get a better angle. the LRMs are nice in that if i don't have direct LOS i can still rain on someone if my team ha s the presence of mind to press R. the LRM and LLs mix well actually as i can fire them while i wait for that lock. though i also do my best to stay close to the rest of team (that is something most snipers and LRMers tend to forget to do. stick with the team as best you can.)

(most of my assaults are mid range builds)

Edited by VeeOt Dragon, 23 December 2022 - 10:49 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

VeeOt Dragon, on 23 December 2022 - 10:48 AM, said:

i have one real Long range Assault (its my Stalker-3FB) but its a mixed loadout (2 ER LLs, 2 MLs, 2 LRM-15s with ECM of course)

I wouldn't consider that a sniper at all. Sniper implies that's your exclusive loadout, or nearly exclusive.

[Void Angel]

TheCaptainJZ, on 23 December 2022 - 02:37 PM, said:

I wouldn't consider that a sniper at all. Sniper implies that's your exclusive loadout, or nearly exclusive.

True, but the way the OP is talking about "snipers" applies to any long-range build.

He doesn't really know what he's talking about, either, but that's another issue...

[ScrapIron Prime]

TheCaptainJZ, on 23 December 2022 - 02:37 PM, said:

I wouldn't consider that a sniper at all. Sniper implies that's your exclusive loadout, or nearly exclusive.

I have to agree, that build thrives at 400m, not 900m. And I have a beloved Highlander build that does much the same thing… a wall of armor with laser weaponry rolling up to 300m and getting its own locks… sharing armor as it goes.

But I much prefer my assault mechs to have mid range armament. Enough dakka to get into the fight but enough range to shoot something if it gets left behind.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

I will play what ever I want… when ever I want… If I even log in at all…

The vast customization choices of the battletech universe is what makes this game so interesting.

[Void Angel]

There's Mechwarrior 5 for that - it's quite fun these days, and there won't be eleven other people depending on you there.

[RottenAwfulPilot]

assault sniper is an excuse to camp behind your team, do no maneuvering, call no targets, and certainly not there to listen to reason or assist in a kill. frankly, I am betting most veteran players will agree that camping in an assault mech is a true trademark of the lone warrior thought process, which does not have a place in a 12 man team unless there is some teamwork included with it.

Edited by RottenAwfulPilot, 08 March 2023 - 07:07 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Raging Owlbear, on 20 December 2022 - 03:49 PM, said:

So I don't know who needs to hear this... and it's not just new players.

STOP PLAYING ASSAULT SNIPERS

You see, there are lots of smaller mechs that can snipe well. Assaults are needed for their armor. If you take 80 to 100 tons off the front lines of the combat, you might as well be a disconnect because that's how much it hurts your team.

Use a #$*%ing smaller mech.

You dont share armour. Thats dumb, no mech in the game is tanky enough to intentionally allow itself to take damage (except when the team is doing a push)

What you need to be doing is sharing aggro. A Light mech plinking PPCs or AC2 shots into backs and then ducking into cover when they turn around is not taking damage (i.e. not 'sharing armour') but is diverting that mechs attention, so it isnt staring at a peek spot waiting for someone on your team to peek over.

If you are diverting an enemies attention toward you and away from your teammates, you are sharing aggro - and snipers do that very effectively.

Edit: And, for example, a brawler atlas that is sitting behind a wall waiting for its moment to barge in and clean up IS NOT sharing aggro.

Stop expecting assault pilots to be your meatshield. They are not tanks, no mech in the game can tank multiple enemies and no one is playing the game to do **** themselves while you use their sacrifice to get some damage in.

TBH if you actually want a mech that can tank? Take a f***ing Urbanmech. Those little buggers take way more concentrated fire to kill than a Dire Wolf or Blood Asp (or whatever assault sniper you are annoyed with), once you take the absurd armour quirks and misses due to size and hitreg into account.

Edit2: While i do primarily play assaults these days, its very rarely what i would call a sniper. More usually midrange, either Dakka or Laser vomit. Having a team full of brawlers sitting behind walls playing passively and waiting for enemies is FAR more annoying than a team full of snipers - with the brawler team, every time i try to peek the enemy i take excessive damage because no one is distracting them.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 08 March 2023 - 08:17 AM.

[Void Angel]

You got stuck on the title,
and couldn't let it slide -
Just know a decent person,
would let a dead thread die!

Necro, necro, necro!
This thread was three months dead!
Necro, necro necro -
what's going through your head?

Edited by Void Angel, 09 March 2023 - 01:42 PM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Void Angel, on 09 March 2023 - 01:41 PM, said:

You got stuck on the title,
and couldn't let it slide -
Just know a decent person,
would let a dead thread die!

Necro, necro, necro!
This thread was three months dead!
Necro, necro necro -
what's going through your head?

lol you're right, i didnt realise. To be fair, not my fault - the previous poster was the necromancer.

[Storky]

By looking at current long range meta seems there are new postions for heavy sniper mechs. They can pick it instead of dying by Nascar first. Seems legit.