141 replies to this topic

[Weeny Machine]

Btw, where is the info of getting new weapons from and which quarter of the year is targeted?

[LordNothing]

not really sure of the timeline or even if they are going to follow through with it.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Weeny Machine, on 23 January 2023 - 12:15 PM, said:

Btw, where is the info of getting new weapons from

The recent devlog: https://youtu.be/eBpgareX458

Weeny Machine, on 23 January 2023 - 12:15 PM, said:

and which quarter of the year is targeted?

No info on the exact timeline

[JohannesSteiner]

My choices and reasons:
Ballistic: Maybe make different types of ammo.
Energy: Plasma rifle. Pew Pew
Missile: Mortars. GRENADES!!! Maybe different types of warheads (STD, dead fire or tandem)

Equipment: the partial wing system. Who doesn't want to rain death from above?
Armor: harden Ferro fibrous armor. Who doesn't want a armoured Titan
Chassis: I don't know maybe Endo composite?
Prototype weapon: Chemical lasers, RISC Hyper laser, sniper artillery or maybe extended lrms.

[Curccu]

Widowmaker1981, on 23 January 2023 - 03:48 AM, said:

There are already too many 'troll builds' using stealth armour and gauss rifles to be annoying hard to locate snipers, make Gauss easier to use and they will multiply. (I call them troll builds because the DPS on Gauss is so low they practically never make decent match score, so they seem designed to annoy others rather than succeed themselves).

My Thanatos is sad now that you called her troll it works very well on some maps like caustic... most people have no where I'm shooting them and thus making almost every hit to CT is pretty doable.

BTW sustained dps of twin gauss pretty much owns any energy weapon light.

[Mark Yore]

Widowmaker1981, on 23 January 2023 - 03:48 AM, said:

I'm not for the charge on Gauss being removed. Yeah, it does mean i use them a great deal less than i otherwise would because im not very good with the charge mechanic but, unless they are given an obvious visual effect to backtrace the firing mech (think quake 2 railguns), they are just too good as sniper weapons if they are point and click. Increasing the cooldown is irrelevant to snipers, unless its to an insane amount.

There are already too many 'troll builds' using stealth armour and gauss rifles to be annoying hard to locate snipers, make Gauss easier to use and they will multiply. (I call them troll builds because the DPS on Gauss is so low they practically never make decent match score, so they seem designed to annoy others rather than succeed themselves).

Gauss could be fixed by making it a two-stage firing process. First shot charges up the weapon, second shot releases it. Think of it like a crossbow. The longer the charge the higher the velocity but once it reaches the peak it only holds for a short time before it starts to discharge. That means if your target moves behind an obstruction you can save the ammo but your weapon is unable to prepare to fire again until it's completely discharged.

[Weeny Machine]

Mech Mortars, ARROW IV, or Thumpers... to flush out the camping snipers.

Oh wait...these represent 2 aspects we cannot have: 1. something against sniping 2. something which promotes non-static matches

Edited by Weeny Machine, 24 January 2023 - 03:17 AM.

[LordNothing]

idk why you all dug this up when there is a new weapons thread on page one.

[mod]The recent posts from this thread: New Tech When?
Have been moved here.[/mod]

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 24 January 2023 - 04:38 AM.
see comment

[LordNothing]

click-fu is lame. ive always considered it a crutch for lesser game devs.

Edited by LordNothing, 24 January 2023 - 04:12 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Mark Yore, on 24 January 2023 - 02:24 AM, said:

Gauss could be fixed by making it a two-stage firing process. First shot charges up the weapon, second shot releases it. Think of it like a crossbow. The longer the charge the higher the velocity but once it reaches the peak it only holds for a short time before it starts to discharge. That means if your target moves behind an obstruction you can save the ammo but your weapon is unable to prepare to fire again until it's completely discharged.

How is this better than the current system where you hold to charge and release to fire (or keep holding to dissipate charge and save the ammo)? It sounds harder to use, if anything.

The only reason i can think of someone would want this system is if they are planning to set up a macro which charges the gauss rifles constantly, timed to restart the charge right after it discharges each time. This would effectively turn them into point and click weapons for people who macro, and unusable weapons for people who dont. Solid nope.

[LordNothing]

Widowmaker1981, on 24 January 2023 - 06:33 AM, said:

How is this better than the current system where you hold to charge and release to fire (or keep holding to dissipate charge and save the ammo)? It sounds harder to use, if anything.

The only reason i can think of someone would want this system is if they are planning to set up a macro which charges the gauss rifles constantly, timed to restart the charge right after it discharges each time. This would effectively turn them into point and click weapons for people who macro, and unusable weapons for people who dont. Solid nope.

thats possible now. it requires multiple gauss rifles if you want one always primed to fire, you can't have them all primed to fire and only 2 can charge at the same time. you can in theory do four lgrs on a fafnir where you can get an instant 20-alpha whenever you want, but with small dead zones where you cant fire. if you do fire you need to wait at least half a cooldown cycle for the other to prime. so no full alphas.

actually i think id do a charge capacity system, effectively energy draw light. you only have so much power available to gauss rifles, you can charge multiples but it takes longer to charge than a single gun (effectively extending the cycle time and extending the effective cooldown time). the amount of charge each one needs can effectively be its damage. you can charge maybe 30 units/second to keep a single gr charging at half a second. there is no charge limit, so you can use as many guns as you want. the charge is distributed such that gausses of a different type will complete at the same time.

sgr - 1: 0.5s, 2: 1s, 3: 1.5s, 4: 2s
lgr - 1: 0.333s, 2: 0.666s, 3: 1s, 4: 1.333s
hgr - 1: 0.833s, 2: 1.666s

you can sum up for combos:

lgr+sgr: 0.833s
sgr+hgr: 1.166s
lgr+sgr+hgr: 1.666s
2lgr+sgr: 1.166s
2lgr+hgr: 1.5s

you can tweak the charge rate for weapon balance and quirk it for mech balance and flavor. nodes might also apply to charge time as well as hold time. another thing you can do for single gun mechs (like the ghillie) is to have a precharge quirk where a portion of the charge is always available. say you get 10 free charge, it would allow you to insti-fire an lgr, otherwise it will act like a charge time buff. also since grs also technically have some pretty brutal ghost heat penalties, stacking rifles also makes them hot. initially this system would be a nerf, as it will cut dps in half for common dual rifle boats. so you might need some general buffs to compensate (again you could probibly just tweak the charge rate).

i should reiterate that click-fu is lame, but a lot of people seem to like it.

Edited by LordNothing, 24 January 2023 - 08:12 PM.

[terrangrunt]

LordNothing, on 15 January 2023 - 09:59 AM, said:

someone posted this in another thread and i feel its pertinent to this discussion.

(vid)

helps if you paste the link lol.

Tbh I'd love to see this but wouldn't it make rotaries obsolete entirely? Unless it had heavy ammo so you only had enough for 4-5 salvos.

Edited by terrangrunt, 24 January 2023 - 11:13 PM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

terrangrunt, on 24 January 2023 - 11:12 PM, said:

Tbh I'd love to see this but wouldn't it make rotaries obsolete entirely? Unless it had heavy ammo so you only had enough for 4-5 salvos.

It's a clan weapon, so it wouldn't compete with RACs directly. Also it's different enough in use.

[LordNothing]

terrangrunt, on 24 January 2023 - 11:12 PM, said:

Tbh I'd love to see this but wouldn't it make rotaries obsolete entirely? Unless it had heavy ammo so you only had enough for 4-5 salvos.

well clans dont have racs (well they do eventually, just not in this game) and is dont have hags. even though they kind of fill similar niches. hags also give the clans some extra ballistics as they didnt get any in the civil war patch that weren't machine guns. is does have sbgauss though.

pacs and lacs also fill similar niches in both tech bases and can be balanced off of eachother. and i think vgls are available in both tech bases. apgauss and magshoot, i think are also complementary light ballistics. all of these help light and medium ballistic mechs have options.

lasers seem on par, is has std, pulse, and er, clans have heavy pulse and er. if is gets x-pulse then the clan would need something to compensate, say chem lasers. clans do have micros, so that leaves some room for blazers and bombast that can take up the heavy laser role. ppc pariry seems to come from the fact that clans have a jack of all trades weapon while is has special purpose versions. though i wouldnt mind seeing another ppc option on the clan side. capped ppcs are also an option (make them more powerful but give them a gauss style charge up for flavor)

missiles mostly have the best parity, both tech bass have a full range of srms and lrms, and artemis versions as well as streaks. if you give is mmls, then you need something to match parity with the mrms. clan mrms as far as i know dont exist in lore. clans do have streak lrms though, so even if it doesnt fill the same role at least there is another option. wouldnt mind seeing inferno ssrms either.

Edited by LordNothing, 24 January 2023 - 11:39 PM.

[Tromoskyon Rex]

If we could get one thing that does 42 ppfd or that does 21 ppfd that is light enough to have 2 of and has a range of say ~800 that would be rad.

[foamyesque]

LordNothing, on 23 January 2023 - 03:37 AM, said:

i actually agree on this front. 30 damage used to be the benchmark of acceptable alpha, but there are so many mechs that can easily dump 3 times that much without shutting you down or cooking you off.

I dunno, one of my fave machines is a triple PPC Shadowhawk, and I've found one-click instant 30 pinpoint is still plenty powerful. Twin gauss is *already* pretty good even with the front-loaded charge time and it helps make the weapon feel more distinct from normal autocannon.

Edited by foamyesque, 28 January 2023 - 09:17 PM.

[Weeny Machine]

When I read some comments I have to say: the last we need is higher long-range alphas & ppldf damage. The meta is stupid enough as it is and especially the alphas should be lowered not increased or this game will be completely static

Some assaults play tower defense already. They park in one spot at the beginning of the game and won't move till the end.

Edited by Weeny Machine, 29 January 2023 - 01:49 AM.

[sycocys]

Weeny Machine, on 29 January 2023 - 01:06 AM, said:

Some assaults play tower defense already. They park in one spot at the beginning of the game and won't move till the end.

When you are spectating in a roll and have to remind people that they aren't turrets. Almost as good as the spider that bails off to the edge of the map in domination with 3 cored mechs left.

[LordNothing]

Weeny Machine, on 29 January 2023 - 01:06 AM, said:

When I read some comments I have to say: the last we need is higher long-range alphas & ppldf damage. The meta is stupid enough as it is and especially the alphas should be lowered not increased or this game will be completely static

Some assaults play tower defense already. They park in one spot at the beginning of the game and won't move till the end.

im not sure any new weapons fall into the camp category.

lacs/pacs: low end autocannons without the range, perhaps burst fire.

rifle: inverse (normal) calibur to range relationship, but muted to an intermediate range weapon at best.

xpulse/chem laser: not long range.

hags/sbgr: either burst or spread fire, perhaps midrange.

capped ppcs: maybe campy but hotter and slower firing than stock, possibly with velocity nerfs so they dont obsolete normal ppcs. or perhaps trade range for power. suggest making those charge like gauss rifles even though i dont like click-fu in games (but thats only a personal preference).

vgl/mech mortar: short and medium range arcing weapon with aoe. active counter to hill humping vomit. spam weapon.

mml: about as effective as atms, same as srms or lrms minus the tube count, less spammy than either but more versatile.

plasma: midrange flamer.

arrow iv: long range aoe weapon. easy to intercept though its aoe range might overlap ams range enough for ams to stop the bulk of the damage but seldom all of it, just like with lerms. requires proactive spotting to land at extreme ranges. give squirrels something to do early game. potentially anti-sniper. probibly will be skipped due to small maps. may come with urbie-aiv/catapult-c3 booster pack (definite will buy).

arty weapons: dumbfire idf aoe weapon. very hard to land. can blow yourself up in close quarters. requires lock or spotting for range data to guesstimate trajectory (impact range readout must match target range for best results), or line of sight and adjustment to walk the kill zone into the mechs. definitely anti-sniper, best used on stationary turret mechs, less useful against moving targets. probibly will be skipped because of small maps and new warning/rangefinding mechanics required.

i dont really see a lot of range other than the latter two examples and the capped peepers. ranged missiles perform like ranged missiles = not effective. arty weapons including arrow will have so much travel time they can be dodged (especially if you add a big flashy arty warning or that death circle thing they do in mw5 or perhaps purple smoke, everyone knows what that means).

most of the things i want are better light ballistic options and the extreme range weapons can be skipped all together. id rather not perpetuate the camp-attrition meta, though some of the things that might count as sniper weapons could also be counters to erll spam.

Edited by LordNothing, 03 February 2023 - 04:55 PM.

[sycocys]

Years ago I would have been against player loaded arty/mortor, but it would make sense as a counter to the long range/snipers (guys that jump on top of buildings too) - that could just outright replace art strikes.

Could do equipment for cool shots and drones as well so they aren't basically free buffs. -IMO most of the skill tree should require a piece of crit slot equipment at the least to balance it and the ability to possibly remove some of the bonuses in match.

If they aren't going to update to MW5, then light ballistics needs to happen. It might not be a complete game changer, but it would make a lot more light/medium mechs have viable builds with their ballistic slots.

Energy variants just add flavor for little effort on their part, won't really change anything for better or worse.

Missile variants, probably about the same. LRMs kind of suck unless they add back a moon shot one, or ones that have higher velocity but very low arc. Not really sure there's much else worth doing with the shorter ones other than letting streaks dumb-fire (if they haven't already, I never use them).