112 replies to this topic

[Void Angel]

Yeah, the Urbanmech is a bit overquirked in survivability; but it's not TOO bad once you get used to it. Just annoying; there's a reason you don't see them dominating the battlefield.

[Void Angel]

JediPanther, on 23 January 2023 - 01:46 PM, said:

Same thing was said about catapults' ears/boxes. They made great shields when you learn how to torso twist. You know what an atlas has over the locust? Fire power and armor. What the locust doesn't have is armor.

The difference is that Catapult ears don't lean out over the front of the 'mech, and have damage reduction if there's missiles in them. The Blood Asp on level ground with an enemy LMG 'mech in a valley can need to back WAY up to stop that 'mech from picking his gun torsos apart, while a Catapult's hit boxes are much less vulnerable. A Blood Asp is literally as tall as an Atlas, so its "guntennae" are much more exposed than missile ears that sit behind your 'mech cockpit (and thus the origin of your LOS.) This doesn't make the 'mech bad; but it does impact its survivability.

You seem to have misunderstood the purpose of my comparison; of course my Locust is more fragile than any Assault - but not all 'mech durabilities (of any weight class) are created equal. An Atlas at close range can take a licking and keep on ticking like nothing else; an Annihilator can spread damage on its boat-like torso to achieve impressive survivability even without Atlas-level armor quirks - something like the Blood Asp has a much harder time, and if you push your Asp into contact with a true brawler, you'll get wrecked pretty quickly.

Vonbach, on 23 January 2023 - 01:54 PM, said:

Sorry it is not my job to be your meatwall when I'm playing assaults. Suck it up and take some damage.

All that being said, however, it kind of is your job to take damage. If I share armor with my Locust, you can do it with whatever Assault you're playing. Nobody should expect you to jump in front of the line and just soak up firepower so the team can avoid replacing armor; but you should at least be available as a target for the enemy team at some points. It's very frustrating for a Medium pilot (for example,) whose kit is generally mobile firepower at the expense of durability, to look around and see the Assaults refusing to accept any exposure while the Medium dies. I've been there. Sure, you'll have some matches where the team just moved beyond your range of fire, and you couldn't get there in time to help; been there, too. Just bear in mind that armor is a resource and, like firepower and mobility, resources should be used to benefit the team.

Edited by Void Angel, 23 January 2023 - 04:16 PM.

[sycocys]

Void Angel, on 23 January 2023 - 04:05 PM, said:

Yeah, the Urbanmech is a bit overquirked in survivability; but it's not TOO bad once you get used to it. Just annoying; there's a reason you don't see them dominating the battlefield.

It's a pita if you aren't running ppfld, everything splashes every box and parts of your damage just disappear into the trashcan that it is.

[BLACKR0SE]

it's just a trend, the trend in the game is constantly changing instantly, you need to adapt

[Sjorpha]

They are only "hanging back" relative to where you choose to move.

So is your position on the map that much superior to their position? If not why did you move there? Why aren't you and other lighter mechs on the team forming up around your assaults rather than run ahead and complain?

Perhaps if you didn't assume there is some default place everyone has to go you wouldn't have this problem?

[Duke Falcon]

Sjorpha, on 24 January 2023 - 10:51 AM, said:

They are only "hanging back" relative to where you choose to move.

So is your position on the map that much superior to their position? If not why did you move there? Why aren't you and other lighter mechs on the team forming up around your assaults rather than run ahead and complain?

Perhaps if you didn't assume there is some default place everyone has to go you wouldn't have this problem?

Aaaaand moar hard truth in this statement above than anyone may dreamed!
Well said!

[Void Angel]

Eh, not really; there's some truth to the idea that people just do The Thing every map - but Assaults are just as guilty of that sometimes. It's equally as bad when an Assault just goes to its favorite camping spot and refuses to move, but there is a HUGE assumption behind that quote, and it's a pretty bad one.

I had a match not long enough ago where we started water-side on Crimson Strait, and the entire team except for me ran straight to the parking garage and refused to move. The problem: the game mode was Domination, and the only one in the circle was me. Even after I was forced out, they STILL refused to move...

Was my position on the map so much superior to theirs? After all, I died. Why aren't I and other lighter 'mechs on my team forming up around the Assaults rather than just running ahead and complaining?

The answer is that maps matter. Not just in that specific situation where the lone Locust is begging the team to actually play the game mode, but on every map. One of the most challenging things about playing an Assault is managing their mobility (shut up, Chargers; you don't count) - to do that, I need to know where the enemy is and what he's doing, so that I know where to go. If the team "forms up around me," I don't get that information, especially since 9 out of 11 of my teammates won't use their mic. Additionally, if the entire team is moving at my pace, we are going to get enveloped by a more aggressive enemy team and picked apart from multiple directions.

We need the faster members of the team to hold key points in advance of their slowest teammates just as much as we need those slow team members to contribute actively to the fight.

Edited by Void Angel, 24 January 2023 - 12:17 PM.

[PurplePuke]

Wild, far-out exaggeration by the OP. Funny.

I see lots of assaults up in the fight, taking damage, acting as tip of the spear.

I see a few sniping assaults. No big deal. Sniping assaults help win games.

Just more whining, really.

[Void Angel]

Well, not necessarily. Player behaviors will vary by time, server, and tier. What they see in their matches may well be different than what you or I see, even if we're all in the same tier, but playing at different times.

Edited by Void Angel, 24 January 2023 - 03:46 PM.

[terrangrunt]

Assault "cowardice" is because of sniper meta and brawlers getting wrecked by longer range guns.

The Mech behind you, on 15 January 2023 - 10:50 PM, said:

I started as a light & medium player (still my favorite weight classes) and was wondering why assaults play the way they play. Later I played assaults myself and I unterstood everything! Be in their shoes for a few dozen games and you will too.

Some snippets of my experience:
- NASCARing your teams assaults to death
- Calling for a push or waiting for one then when I or some assaults push and get shot at everyone runs back into their cover and lets the big guys die
- As an assault sticking with the blob, trading shots. And when the big fight breaks out and I fully engage with the other team, I find myself suddenly all alone. Everyone else suddenly left leaving me and maybe another poor assault all alone with their main force
- Lights and other fast mechs running straight forward for a fight, engaging very early and therefore dying. And then they are berating assaults for not engaging while the assaults didn't even had time to leave the spawn. Not everyone is running at 150 kph

Also getting absolutely wrecked by a light mech hugging your legs and not being able to get a clean shot.

[Void Angel]

Some builds have problems with lights - others have lasers, or weapons on the arm. It's hard to fight Lights with heavy weapons and big 'mechs before you get used to them, but it's not so bad later on. As with any weight class, I advise using them against enemy Assaults to get a handle on what they need to do (and not do) to kill an Assault chassis.

Beginner Light pilots can get absolutely wrecked by an experienced Assault, but it depends on what guns the Assault has, how well it can maneuver and - most importantly - how close it is to its team, and whether it uses its words and a microphone to call for help. Where Lights really tend to excel against skilled players is situations where the enemy has to choose whether to focus on killing the Light that's harassing them, or the Assault or Heavy that's beating them down.

That "hump their leg until they die" strategy will get you melted down into commemorative ingots with a quickness against players in higher tiers - so there's hope.

[Weeny Machine]

Sjorpha, on 24 January 2023 - 10:51 AM, said:

They are only "hanging back" relative to where you choose to move.

So is your position on the map that much superior to their position? If not why did you move there? Why aren't you and other lighter mechs on the team forming up around your assaults rather than run ahead and complain?

Perhaps if you didn't assume there is some default place everyone has to go you wouldn't have this problem?

I don't like genralization. There are maps where it makes more sense that lights flank and harass enemy fatties and binding them - taking pressure off the front. Staring down at the guns of heavies and assaults with short-medium ranged weaponry in a trenchlike fire exchange is usually a bad idea for lights. Their mobility gets completely negated that way.

And still assault players can't understand that...

Edited by Weeny Machine, 25 January 2023 - 02:05 AM.

[sosegado]

Risen Trash, on 22 January 2023 - 05:47 PM, said:

Q: How do you put an assault mech in reverse?
A: Graze it with a medium laser.

So, I see the joke, I get the joke, I understand the humour that generates the joke, but then I ask myself...is it obvious why the assaults do that?

Just in case there are people that don't understand what this is, I'll try to explain.

And this doesn't apply to assaults on an attack push, for the most part assault pilots will ignore insignificant incoming damage when they're stomping ***.

For experienced assault pilots this is a 'flinch' reaction that puts the assault pilots mindset into a 'situational alert'.

Questions go through our minds like, "was that friendly fire?" "were did that shot come from?" "is there a stealth light about to chew my ***?"

If you're going to pilot assaults you would do well to develop this 'flinch' reaction.

You all know how powerful light mechs loadouts are these days. You don't have a few seconds to decide to ignore that 'graze'.
You have fractions of a second to determine whether or not it's time to go into your full defensive spin and decide to call for help from your team. (Which, let's be honest, in 95% of the QP PUGs is going to be wasted breath anyway).

Still a funny joke, though!

Edited by Stab Wound, 25 January 2023 - 05:36 AM.

[MechB Kotare]

Saved By The Bell, on 22 January 2023 - 11:32 AM, said:

This is bad fight.

PGI changed this very good map in snipe sh*t from walls.

TTB is close range and pretty useless. Later he killed 4 pretty damaged enemy.

Assault cant do anything in such case.

''Hes pretty useless...'' *does 4 solo kills and 640 dmg*

Sorry but you are wrong. The new design at least gives you an option to go down below when you are pure short range. The old design didnt give you an option to do anything when you were pure long range, unless taking a jump jet mech (shc with 3x cERLL or 2x ERPPC e.g.) and jumping on the wall, which was pain i the a** to deal with. Old map was a cancer nascar rotation bs, with king of the hill exploit. You take the top, you win the game. You couldnt even access walls without **** load of jjs, now you can. The old HPG was a s*** map. Hope it never comes back into rotation.

[Uzi Foo]

As an Atlas main, using mostly srm/ac20 builds, I tend to get close to the front lines without exposing myself. After making an evaluation of where to push I go all in. So, for a part of the match it looks like I'm not doing much lol. Most of the match is me just trying to close the distance without taking unnecessary damage.

Assaults take a long time to get into a good position. As a light or meduim you have to take that into account and try not to take too much damage till the assaults are in position. If the lights and mediums ate dying before the assaults show up it's their fault for being over zealous.

Edited by Uzi Foo, 25 January 2023 - 09:09 AM.

[Curccu]

sycocys, on 23 January 2023 - 02:05 PM, said:

For 10 more tons you can pilot an urbanmech and have the same armor as a 50 ton medium mech while being able to spin circles and mess up hit detection.

165kph isn't same as 104kph, urbies agility isn't even close to what Locust can do and no usually that speed doesn't mess up hit detection, it might mess up aim of a not so good pilot. But sure you got shitloads of extra armor, but wouldn't recommend knife fighting in urbie unless enemy is almost dead already.

[Void Angel]

Their small size and architecture makes Urbanmechs extremely tough for their size, which probably leads some players to conclude that their hit boxes are broken (heck, it wouldn't be the first time; remember Ravens, back when?) If you're trying to kill it with scatter damage, it's incredibly tough. I find Urbanmechs to be a bit too durable compared to other options in their weight class, but like I said before - there's a reason you don't see them everywhere, dominating the battlefield.

[Curccu]

Void Angel, on 25 January 2023 - 10:24 AM, said:

Their small size and architecture makes Urbanmechs extremely tough for their size, which probably leads some players to conclude that their hit boxes are broken (heck, it wouldn't be the first time; remember Ravens, back when?) If you're trying to kill it with scatter damage, it's incredibly tough. I find Urbanmechs to be a bit too durable compared to other options in their weight class, but like I said before - there's a reason you don't see them everywhere, dominating the battlefield.

Yeah they are very nice, I have played quite a lot of them and against people with not that good aim they are super durable but against good players they melt like anything else.
Depends so much who is in the pilots seat of those also, meaning how good are they at evading hits... straight lines or just running circle around assault mech will die easily, unpredictable movement pattern and they can eat tons of damage (actually evade most of the alphas).

None of the urbies can have good sustained dps either so that kinda limits the domination part greatly, but that is generally light mech issue, small alpha and small dps... specially sustained.

[Void Angel]

Weapon choice matters a lot with Urbanmechs, though. I have pretty decent aim - but I'm not going to efficiently kill an Urbanmech with MRMs or LB-X autocannons. I've tried.

For a sustained-dps Light, This Guy is my current guilty pleasure. Of course, it's a Locust so I often have to run away to avoid getting plastered...

[sycocys]

Ravens were jank back in the day because of lag shield.

Urbanmechs are jank because they don't register damage properly unless you hit them with a single shot cannon or only attempt for their legs which is the only hitbox that functions correctly. So they end up with medium levels of armor that essentially only takes about 75-80% of the damage you drop into the trashcan.

- I guess here's my experience - I can rail on an Urbanmech with 5 lppc forever and barely change the armor color.... or I can put a few cycles into a dire and have both its torsos open and ct armor red. And it's similar for everything not single shot cannons/gauss for the urbanmech, the damage is going somewhere just not into the armor you are shooting.

Edited by sycocys, 25 January 2023 - 02:02 PM.