112 replies to this topic

[Void Angel]

Oh, not just because of the netcode. Ravens also benefitted from slightly-overlapping hit boxes that could "lose" damage when weapons hit the overlapping bits. The chassis eventually had its hitboxes revamped.

The Urbanmech, I see a lot of anecdotal claims that the same is happening, but I'm not aware of any testing to prove it. Something to consider about shooting that Urbanmech - is he standing still? A battery of LPPCs is going to have different convergence as well, plus there's the question of relative lag - and reproducibility.

I'm not saying that it's not happening, but you have to have more than anecdotal experience - with all its vulnerability to confounding variables and bias confirmation - to prove it actually is.

[sycocys]

For me its been pretty consistent with the trash can, doesn't matter really what weapon system I shoot it with unless its a single shot of (in my case sine I hate the guass mechanic) cannon fire. Can lead them out and wreck them with a 4G and ac/20 just fine.

I'd think if it was netcode issues then I would have at least some issue putting damage onto the smaller profile and much faster lights. But I can ppc/srm/mrm/multi cannon them on full sprint and they all seem to collect the damage just fine.

Also do get the slight bit of convergence, but that doesn't explain why some register 0 damage - I could see like with lppc it hitting the adjoining box with the full then spreading the little back, but it doesn't do that. Even with its cranked up armor value, if shots were splitting to the other boxes b/c of convergence it's armor "should" drop as fast as any other medium mech, probably faster being that some of that split should be transferring to the rear st armors.

[KursedVixen]

Blood Rose, on 15 January 2023 - 02:10 PM, said:

Is it just me, or is there a notable tendency for Assault pilots to hang back and refuse to do their share of fighting? Im only asking after noticing this trend for several weeks, the match will be well under way, my mech and usually several other lighter mechs on my team will be badly damaged, having been fighting the enemy and doing our level best, but the Assaults are all almost pristine, with maybe 4% overall damage at the worst, and yet they will sit back and hide, refusing to take part in the fight. Has anyone else noticed this?

give my blood asp the armor of an IS 90 tonner and i'd consider it on that note give my Kodiak and Dire the armor of an atlas.

[Void Angel]

KursedVixen, on 25 January 2023 - 08:13 PM, said:

give my blood asp the armor of an IS 90 tonner and i'd consider it on that note give my Kodiak and Dire the armor of an atlas.

... No. You can have MORE ARMOR, though!

There you go. Now just... stop.

I mean, here we are again with yet another whine about supposed Clan inferiority shoehorned into a productive topic. On that note, give my Atlas the firepower and range of your Dire Wolf or Kodiak, and - oh, but that's not "a fun, balanced game" any more is it? I get it; you never stopped wanting MWO to be a virtual LARPing platform for the tabletop Battletech games you never played. But it's not going to be that, and it was never intended or "promised" to be. Stop inflicting your misguided crusade onto every topic you can find an excuse for.

[Duke Falcon]

There is no Assault cowardice... Just lighter players forgot their role:

Haha, hilarious!

Bad take jokes apart, there are more troubles in the game than a few assault players... If we open a topic for all separately then we have more topics than a worthfull encyclopaedia...

...

Void Angel, on 25 January 2023 - 10:29 PM, said:

... No. You can have MORE ARMOR, though!

There you go. Now just... stop.

I mean, here we are again with yet another whine about supposed Clan inferiority shoehorned into a productive topic. On that note, give my Atlas the firepower and range of your Dire Wolf or Kodiak, and - oh, but that's not "a fun, balanced game" any more is it? I get it; you never stopped wanting MWO to be a virtual LARPing platform for the tabletop Battletech games you never played. But it's not going to be that, and it was never intended or "promised" to be. Stop inflicting your misguided crusade onto every topic you can find an excuse for.

Give my mech the speed of a Fire moth, the armour value of an Atlas and the firepower of a Dire wolf!
Then it would be fun for me to play... But whad'bout ya?
Do I sense it right we start to derail into the wrong direction?

So, fried potatoes anyone?

[foamyesque]

KursedVixen, on 25 January 2023 - 08:13 PM, said:

give my blood asp the armor of an IS 90 tonner and i'd consider it on that note give my Kodiak and Dire the armor of an atlas.

Sure, just as soon as an Atlas gets 16 hardpoints and Clantech guts.

[Scarlet King Crab]

assault main here (kgc)

it depends on what im carrying. on sniper builds, im more likely to stay back and v.v. on 270m weapons. on 810m loadouts, the time it takes to go to the front line for a push is significant.

there are special cases where i take point for a push a sniper mech if the situation calls for it.
even on a 4 light gauss XL build ha ha.

ive seen my fair share of taking point, got blasted to ashes look back and nobody comes with me. i often ask myself why everyone is staying back. the push was even called out properly.

[LordNothing]

Duke Falcon, on 26 January 2023 - 10:33 AM, said:

There is no Assault cowardice... Just lighter players forgot their role:

Haha, hilarious!

Bad take jokes apart, there are more troubles in the game than a few assault players... If we open a topic for all separately then we have more topics than a worthfull encyclopaedia...

...



Give my mech the speed of a Fire moth, the armour value of an Atlas and the firepower of a Dire wolf!
Then it would be fun for me to play... But whad'bout ya?
Do I sense it right we start to derail into the wrong direction?

So, fried potatoes anyone?

instigib squirrel arena for eq would be fun.

[Vellron2005]

Mwo is an mmo e-spoet style shooter, in which nothing matters. Not your weight class, not your armor, not your loadout... Nothing.

A light mech can devour an assault. An assault can decimate entire lances.

Doing "its share of fighting" is something an ignorant person would say.

Sounds to me like OP rushed ahead and got stomped, which usually leads to a loss, because this is a numbers game..

It is not an assault's job to be your meat shield.
It is not an assault's job to tank for you.
It is not an assault's job to die so you could move 1 grid space.

This is a team-based game. You should hang back with your team if they are laging behind and protect it from lights. You should scout ahead and not die instantly. You should be an asset, not a liability.

[Void Angel]

Soooo.... this is a little embarrassing.

You spend the first half of the OP's post dogging on them, and then the last half reiterating their point of view. Which... is it?

[Weeny Machine]

Vellron2005, on 27 January 2023 - 07:30 AM, said:

Mwo is an mmo e-spoet style shooter, in which nothing matters. Not your weight class, not your armor, not your loadout... Nothing.

A light mech can devour an assault. An assault can decimate entire lances.

Doing "its share of fighting" is something an ignorant person would say.

Sounds to me like OP rushed ahead and got stomped, which usually leads to a loss, because this is a numbers game..

It is not an assault's job to be your meat shield.
It is not an assault's job to tank for you.
It is not an assault's job to die so you could move 1 grid space.

This is a team-based game. You should hang back with your team if they are laging behind and protect it from lights. You should scout ahead and not die instantly. You should be an asset, not a liability.

Nope. Most lights cannot "devour" an assault. The 35t mechs for example are too large and easily hit, plus since torso twisting was removed from engine size, and especially 35t mechs got hit by the nerfbat because they are less agile than before re-sizing, the assaults have a relative easy time to keep lights in their firing arc

Edited by Weeny Machine, 27 January 2023 - 01:02 PM.

[feeWAIVER]

Vellron2005, on 27 January 2023 - 07:30 AM, said:

This is a team-based game. You should hang back with your team if they are laging behind and protect it from lights. You should scout ahead and not die instantly. You should be an asset, not a liability.

This is a recipe for getting surrounded.

[JediPanther]

Weeny Machine, on 27 January 2023 - 11:47 AM, said:

Nope. Most lights cannot "devour" an assault. The 35t mechs for example are too large and easily hit, plus since torso twisting was removed from engine size, and especially 35t mechs got hit by the nerfbat because they are less agile than before re-sizing, the assaults have a relative easy time to keep lights in their firing arc

The resize is what killed lights the most in the game. Then the fle/lct with ecm came in and used the corpses of the 35ts to be OP until assults made every mech have the same yaw speed. It's also hard to hit a clan mech with a 2025m er laser when your is er laser only goes 1850m including the 25% range bonus from the 10% range quirk and 15% skill range boost. Now the maps are being redone yet again to add even more ramps on canyon,hpg,etc to make the game ez mode for assults.

[Rondoe]

sycocys, on 25 January 2023 - 01:56 PM, said:

Ravens were jank back in the day because of lag shield.

Urbanmechs are jank because they don't register damage properly unless you hit them with a single shot cannon or only attempt for their legs which is the only hitbox that functions correctly. So they end up with medium levels of armor that essentially only takes about 75-80% of the damage you drop into the trashcan.

- I guess here's my experience - I can rail on an Urbanmech with 5 lppc forever and barely change the armor color.... or I can put a few cycles into a dire and have both its torsos open and ct armor red. And it's similar for everything not single shot cannons/gauss for the urbanmech, the damage is going somewhere just not into the armor you are shooting.

YES, I don't know how many times I've put an 88 point alpha from my MAD IIC Scorch into the center torso of an Urbanmech only to watch it dance away unscathed, and all of my ordinance explode behind it.

(4xsrm6, 2xlbx20ac) (props to they player who posted that build, it's pretty badass-ty!!!)

Edited by Rondoe, 27 January 2023 - 09:23 PM.

[MrTBSC]

i play mainly assaults and heavies

most used mech Fafnir 5E with MRM120+quad MG build ... i am pretty much spearheading with this ... the fafnir is already as broad as a barndoor .. what happens? team says push- team moves up, i go in with team and pick the larger easier to hit mechs .. not a minute later however i find myself alone ... ... didn´t you guys just say "push!"?

[Void Angel]

Rondoe, on 27 January 2023 - 09:19 PM, said:

YES, I don't know how many times I've put an 88 point alpha from my MAD IIC Scorch into the center torso of an Urbanmech only to watch it dance away unscathed, and all of my ordinance explode behind it.

(4xsrm6, 2xlbx20ac) (props to they player who posted that build, it's pretty badass-ty!!!)

I blasted one with my 3ERPPCs last night and splattered it over the landscape. So, since hit registration failures do occasionally happen to all 'mechs - whose anecdotal story shall we use to determine whether the 'mechs hit boxes are broken? Well... neither. The 'mech MIGHT be broken, or not; we need recordings and testing to see if that's the case. I'm not saying it isn't (I rather suspect that it might be), but if we just rely on our recollections of That One Time we saw something happen, bias confirmation, confounding variables... even memory remodeling can kick in to throw things off.

Edited by Void Angel, 28 January 2023 - 12:10 AM.

[foamyesque]

Rondoe, on 27 January 2023 - 09:19 PM, said:

YES, I don't know how many times I've put an 88 point alpha from my MAD IIC Scorch into the center torso of an Urbanmech only to watch it dance away unscathed, and all of my ordinance explode behind it.

(4xsrm6, 2xlbx20ac) (props to they player who posted that build, it's pretty badass-ty!!!)

Urbie CT is already up to 60 points of armour before skills and your weapons are all scattershot, so I wouldn't actually *expect* it to die to that shot, at least from the front; you'll splash damage over the side torsos, and potentially legs and arms as well.

[Void Angel]

Well, if the ordinance exploded behind it, that's not even hit registration, now that I am not posting at midnight - that sounds like high latency affecting HSR. If hit registration is the issue, I think the game will still show the impact, but lose the actual damage step of the process. I could be wrong; I don't see (or notice - yay for anecdotal evidence!) hit registration failures enough in my games to be sure.

[Rondoe]

Yes I know, screenshot/video or it didn't happen.

It has, many times.

I've done the same to piranha's and commandos and took joy in watching them melt in front of me, warhorns singing my praise.

I know what splash damage is, and that LBX is a scatter gun, had all nodes clicked for lbx and missle spread, distance was 80 meters round about.

[foamyesque]

Rondoe, on 28 January 2023 - 10:43 AM, said:

I've done the same to piranha's and commandos and took joy in watching them melt in front of me, warhorns singing my praise.

Piranha has 24 CT armour and a Commando 32. Obviously shooting something with half the armour gets you different results.

Edited by foamyesque, 28 January 2023 - 11:13 AM.