177 replies to this topic

[Duskwing]

Dammit!... This ruins my favourite Hellfire build of five heavy large lasers!... 'l'D

I don't know if that build would ever be called upper tier in any practical way, but... Oh well, one less meme mech to play. ': )

[Pz_DC]

Increase velocity of ac20?... Why?... It was cool with old starts - heavy, slow flying projective that dead a lot of damage with single hit... Better add some destruction like additional 5 damage to armor or increased crit chanse but keep it hard&heavy! IMHO.

[Far Reach]

Can you start nerfing all the blatantly overpowered IS mechs now? Please?
Getting sick of every single decent clan mech being nerfed into the ground, consistently.

Show us on the paper doll where the incubus hurt you.

[TheCaptainJZ]

I, for one, am glad to see each map getting minor fixes or exploited areas blocked each month. Do Mining Collective next. There's a tall structure on the edge of the map some Mist Lynx jumped up to that I couldn't even get a range reading on. They could shoot down but I couldn't return fire because they had the height and angle advantage. And brighten it up a little so you can see Stealth Thantos's firing gauss hiding on the edge of OOB.

As for the central mountain on Crimson, I would say the original map design was such that they never wanted any players on it. They could of course change that by flattening the mountain to a hill. Something smaller mechs can jump up on and over but not heavier mechs. It would radically change the experience because instead of the chokepoints, you could just go across the center of the map if you were a light or had JJ.

[The Chancelor]

Duskwing, on 21 January 2023 - 04:47 AM, said:

Dammit!... This ruins my favourite Hellfire build of five heavy large lasers!... 'l'D

I don't know if that build would ever be called upper tier in any practical way, but... Oh well, one less meme mech to play. ': )

Use Warhammer IIC-3 instead! Super powerful, good heat, fast and sturdy!

Far Reach, on 21 January 2023 - 05:19 AM, said:

Can you start nerfing all the blatantly overpowered IS mechs now? Please?
Getting sick of every single decent clan mech being nerfed into the ground, consistently.

Show us on the paper doll where the incubus hurt you.

Search for DATAs videos on the Incubus^^

[chaosshade2638]

More Clan plat when?

[Lifeblight]

Thanks Cauldron for your unbiased wisdom. You have improved the game with each nerf you suggest. Making the game more balanced and fun to play.

[sycocys]

You have listed the ability to move conquest points AND drop points - you could make it so this mode actually played out with the mode as the primary competition instead of slightly distracted skirmish.

Also means you could make the other modes and skirmish a better experience by not dropping people into a deathball to start the match.

[dario03]

ghost1e, on 20 January 2023 - 11:21 PM, said:

Yeah, would like to hear some reasoning as to why these mechs are nerfed, especially when their QP performance isn't too great.

-Mist Lynx was mostly based on its comp performance and how its strong when in range. Personally I think its been overrated for a long time. A big part of why it gets so much use in comp is because its the only 20/25t mech with jjs and the (h)mg build needs to be strong up close since it does nothing at any other range (great mech if a lot are pushing, not so much if more stand offish). Earlier draft of the patch had bigger nerfs but I pushed for less since it and chmg has been nerfed multiple times in the last year. The reason it became a better choice was larger mechs got better at pushing so its more common to have others push with you (though I find that more of a comp thing).

-Incubus has been the best qp light for over a year now. I've been saying that forever but other mechs like the Mist Lynx or LPPC lights drew more attention. Though this last comp and some streamers drawing attention to it has got it looked at. It doesn't have the downside of needing to close the distance like a hmg lynx or needing to expose or lead as much as a lppc panther so it can do well in qp quite consistently. I believe nerfs are justified, though I disagree with some like the -3 mgrof quirk since its not mgs that make the mech, its the hll (first couple of vids in my Incubus playlist don't even have mgs). So I worry that it will just get extra nerfed because the mech will still be strong but just not quite as good at farming damage. Plus side though is it does make it a bit more different than the -2 so -2 will probably still be hll/lmg, -3 might move to lpl. Some energy quirk nerfs or nerfs to hll/clpl would have made more sense to me.

-Ravens are buffed. I wrote most of its list and went for a support theme on most and tried to get some unique.
-Panthers are buffed.

-Viper is because of comp and it being very strong in a rush. Groups of them can run through a lot of enemies quickly. Granted a good 4man of most any mech can swing a game but its a strong mech thats fast, with jjs, and a lot of dps. Like the Lynx I would say this should have happened before the chmg nerf.
-Arctic Wolf is fast and can have good firepower so a bit of hp reduction.

-Vindicators are buffed.
-Crabs are buffed.

-Crusader 6T has been very strong with multiple builds so its being pushed toward glass cannon role.
-Rifleman IIcs are buffed.

The rest I believe are all in the clan laser boat category and are just seen as to strong at that. A lot can do a very high damage peak and then cooldown very quickly. So they have had a hp or heat qurik reduction to make them a bit hotter or less tanky. Again I would say it might be better to look at some weapons though. HLL and cLPL are popular on a lot of those and could maybe use a damage or range reduction.
For instance in early Cauldron days the cLPL went from a optimal/max range of 600/840 to 550/1100 but also had a damage increase which made it do its old damage at about 592m. With that range, cdhs and heat quirks the weapon is very good at long and mid range while still being pretty decent up close, just can't do extreme extreme range but in qp thats not to big of an issue.

Edited by dario03, 21 January 2023 - 08:39 AM.

[Denebios]

Nerf Clan, pay for Crael to win...

[nopempele]

...maniacally laughing in AC20...

On other changes, RVN-4X is still the worst because it is slow. And being slow in a light means being dead. No amount of armor quirks could change that.

I am not sure why give RVN-2X a buff to Med laser range? A general buff to the laser duration would be much more welcome. I am also not a fan of forcing some particular builds through quirks.

Removing armor quirks in MAD-IIC is justified in my opinion, people have been tanking them a lot lately.

[Freimaurer]

Perfect Cauldron,
since now the mech balance is optimal after so long,
I would suggest taking care of the cheaters in the game next

[C337Skymaster]

ghost1e, on 20 January 2023 - 11:21 PM, said:

As someone who frequently abused that spot, it is incredibly annoying to get up there and clearly not intended. Not sure how removing that is such a bad thing.

So what "spot" is this? I have never seen any unexpected sniping on Crimson Strait ever since PGI caved to the whiners and blocked off the top of that mountain, which used to be an excellent sniper spot, and is where I leveled up my Mist Lynx's and Novas, back in the day. Again: cost/benefit of equipping Jump Jets. That's a fair amount of weight you're giving up for the sake of mobility, and it's not like we can jump behind someone and dump an alpha in their back, in this game, so we need other useful things to do with that mobility, and getting to high, out-of-the-way sniper/spotter positions is one of them. Take all of those away, and you may as well remove JJ from the game entirely, for all the use they'll be.

I still say the top of the mountain should be unblocked again.

As for Conquest on Crimson Strait: why was THAT changed? There wasn't anything wrong with Conquest on that map. It's Assault and Incursion that needed looking into, not Conquest.

dario03, on 21 January 2023 - 08:24 AM, said:

-Mist Lynx was mostly based on its comp performance and how its strong when in range. Personally I think its been overrated for a long time. A big part of why it gets so much use in comp is because its the only 20/25t mech with jjs and the (h)mg build needs to be strong up close since it does nothing at any other range (great mech if a lot are pushing, not so much if more stand offish). Earlier draft of the patch had bigger nerfs but I pushed for less since it and chmg has been nerfed multiple times in the last year. The reason it became a better choice was larger mechs got better at pushing so its more common to have others push with you (though I find that more of a comp thing).

-Incubus has been the best qp light for over a year now. I've been saying that forever but other mechs like the Mist Lynx or LPPC lights drew more attention. Though this last comp and some streamers drawing attention to it has got it looked at. It doesn't have the downside of needing to close the distance like a hmg lynx or needing to expose or lead as much as a lppc panther so it can do well in qp quite consistently. I believe nerfs are justified, though I disagree with some like the -3 mgrof quirk since its not mgs that make the mech, its the hll (first couple of vids in my Incubus playlist don't even have mgs). So I worry that it will just get extra nerfed because the mech will still be strong but just not quite as good at farming damage. Plus side though is it does make it a bit more different than the -2 so -2 will probably still be hll/lmg, -3 might move to lpl. Some energy quirk nerfs or nerfs to hll/clpl would have made more sense to me.

-Ravens are buffed. I wrote most of its list and went for a support theme on most and tried to get some unique.
-Panthers are buffed.

-Viper is because of comp and it being very strong in a rush. Groups of them can run through a lot of enemies quickly. Granted a good 4man of most any mech can swing a game but its a strong mech thats fast, with jjs, and a lot of dps. Like the Lynx I would say this should have happened before the chmg nerf.
-Arctic Wolf is fast and can have good firepower so a bit of hp reduction.

-Vindicators are buffed.
-Crabs are buffed.

-Crusader 6T has been very strong with multiple builds so its being pushed toward glass cannon role.
-Rifleman IIcs are buffed.

The rest I believe are all in the clan laser boat category and are just seen as to strong at that. A lot can do a very high damage peak and then cooldown very quickly. So they have had a hp or heat qurik reduction to make them a bit hotter or less tanky. Again I would say it might be better to look at some weapons though. HLL and cLPL are popular on a lot of those and could maybe use a damage or range reduction.
For instance in early Cauldron days the cLPL went from a optimal/max range of 600/840 to 550/1100 but also had a damage increase which made it do its old damage at about 592m. With that range, cdhs and heat quirks the weapon is very good at long and mid range while still being pretty decent up close, just can't do extreme extreme range but in qp thats not to big of an issue.

Thank you for the insight! Although I could read the subtext in most of it (and personally feel like "comp performance" should be weighted very, very low, in the overall decision tree. Faction performance should be weighted double Comp performance, and QP performance should realistically be weighted 5x heavier than FP).

The particular subtext that I found amusing is that Ravens have lost their Narc Duration Bonus, something that was originally unique to them, and which they have been known for ever since quirks became a thing. I also see that they're being compensated with extra sensor and seismic sensor range, and extra Narc ammo and velocity. As in: "fine, you can run around stealth-narcing targets all match. We'll even help you see where they are. But if you want them to stay narced, you'll have to do that, yourself". Close?

As always, I'm disappointed to see quirks that improved a 'mechs stock loadout be removed, and new quirks added out of left field that have nothing to do with the 'mech's traditional build at all, and instead improve some custom loadout that some streamer or Comp player came up with to run for themselves. Neither the CRB-30, nor the CRB-45 exist in MWO.

For anyone who cares: the KFX-D right arm contains a Narc Duration quirk, and the left arm has an ECM hardpoint. It's not quite as good as the Raven was, and it doesn't have Stealth Armor, but it can equip jump-jets and over-the-shoulder missiles or energy.

Lockheed_, on 21 January 2023 - 08:43 AM, said:

This is not directed to dario03 personally, but to the anyone in the cauldron:

The cauldron has stated many times in the past that the game is balanced for QP not for comp. So this approach has quietly been changed?

Speaking of comp and cauldron, who are the people in the cauldron who represent the average player? In the early days of the cauldron you put a big emphasis on having players from a broad spectrum of the game. Is that still the case?
For an outsider it seems like the cauldron is made up of comp or retired comp players and people who are pretty much in the 99th percentile. Do you have people in the cauldron representing the average player, the mechdad that is somewhere in the 50% and just wants to have fun with his buddies and can have a good time running LURMs?

As someone who's tried to offer my opinion to the Comp folks, I can say they tend to be pretty dismissive of folks who don't already think like them. Role Players, stock players, or anyone who wants to enjoy a nice, relaxed, Battletech experience, as close to "simulation" as one can get in MWO, is worth about as much as a common garden slug.

[BLACKR0SE]

Hellebore Outpost almost all the grass is flying. I hope you fix it. I want to see this beautiful view more properly.

Edited by TAMTAMBABY, 21 January 2023 - 09:05 AM.

[RUSTY RASTIL]

Alphas get bigger and bigger and now a nerf to many mechs survival... 1 step closer to counter strike

[Krasnopesky]

Lockheed_, on 21 January 2023 - 08:43 AM, said:

The cauldron has stated many times in the past that the game is balanced for QP not for comp. So this approach has quietly been changed?

This is the agreement that the Cauldron made very early on with PGI in regards to the focus on balance:

--------
Balance should primarily be focused on Quick Play.
--------

and that's what we have done. It doesn't mean that other official game modes like Faction Play or Competitive Play have to be completely ignored, balance can be made towards them as well.

[Steel Raven]

I can't say I like the idea of Clan Mechs getting more squishy.

I get that this is a attempt to nerf Clan snipers without nerfing Clan weapons even more but this will just lead to Clan snipers hiding more and doing whatever possible to stay out of brawl.

[Staude Coston]

Krasnopesky, on 21 January 2023 - 09:24 AM, said:

This is the agreement that the Cauldron made very early on with PGI in regards to the focus on balance:

--------
Balance should primarily be focused on Quick Play.
--------

and that's what we have done. It doesn't mean that other official game modes like Faction Play or Competitive Play have to be completely ignored, balance can be made towards them as well.

Balance in FP Without words

Krasnopolsky I'm sure you know exactly what I mean

[Krasnopesky]

Staude, on 21 January 2023 - 09:33 AM, said:

Balance in FP Without words

Krasnopolsky I'm sure you know exactly what I mean

I am hoping as a first step we can increase clan drop-deck tonnage to 265. I think in these days of balance there is no need to have different drop-deck tonnages.

[KodiakGW]

InnerSphereNews, on 20 January 2023 - 08:19 PM, said:

'MECH AGILITY ADJUSTMENTS

• 
  
• 'Mechs with max torso pitch angle less than 30 degrees are now normalized to 30 degrees pitch
  

I've been championing this change for the Champion (get it?) for a long time. Especially since the Bushwacker had 30 degree pitch. But, here is the type of response I got.
https://i.imgur.com/E10LU1d.jpg

Link to Reddit: https://www.reddit.c...omment/h185z0k/

So I guess that it is no longer an issue. Now even the assault mechs are going to get 30 degree pitch. How about that, just like "min-max" is no longer an issue with the Skill Tree. To bad it's to late for me to care. I've been "shadow banned" from SoupQ since I don't want to be fodder for organized groups, and all my friends have left the game. Event Queue, when available, has mostly been assaults only, and this weekend is Clan only. So no playing my IS heavies.

So, I was right about this, and right about Skill Tree. If you want any more ideas PGI, send me a PM. Not going to argue points with the people left running unchecked toxicity on these forums. Off to go play MW5 with YAML some more.

Edited by KodiakGW, 21 January 2023 - 10:11 AM.