32 replies to this topic

[ThreeStooges]

Not surprised the jenners are the worst lights in game. They had to make them crap to sell the 20 ton lights. That bs re-scale did exactly as all light pilots said it would;just make them a bigger easier target. They can't out dps or keep pace with a 20t for **** but hey jump jets am I right? Oh that missile quirk helps with double lrm 5 too.

[Uzi Foo]

Jiro Yamada, on 15 February 2023 - 12:26 PM, said:

Very curious how many of these ratings are purely from one variant of a mech and wouldn't be anywhere near as high for other variants.

A mech will always be rated by its best variant.

[LordNothing]

Uzi Foo, on 15 February 2023 - 01:15 PM, said:

A mech will always be rated by its best variant.

while this is true, its really unfortunate. finding the spread between the best and worst variant might bring some attention to the not so good variants.

i especially think the mixed hardpoint variants fare the worst. their quirks tend to be all over the place and dont really focus on any particular thing. i find a lot of them usually need to leave many of their quirks and hardpoints on the table for a viable build.

Edited by LordNothing, 16 February 2023 - 12:06 AM.

[Vsolid]

This is pretty cool, I liked seeing the massive difference between low avg score vs high average score ratings of 'mechs. Seems like my favorite little CRBs are pretty well liked by relative noobs like me and not so much by people who are actually good lol.

Edited by Vsolid, 16 February 2023 - 02:15 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

LordNothing, on 16 February 2023 - 12:04 AM, said:

i especially think the mixed hardpoint variants fare the worst. their quirks tend to be all over the place and dont really focus on any particular thing. i find a lot of them usually need to leave many of their quirks and hardpoints on the table for a viable build.

This is inevitable. There is no benefit to using multiple different weapon systems, and there is a serious downside - the extra mental load associated with juggling multiple different projectile speeds and firing modes - harder to use setups are simply worse, unless the potential output is significantly higher.

Since we take hardpoint configs from a turn based game where you roll dice to see if you hit, and there is therefore no mental load downside involved, there are obviously going to be configurations which simply do not translate to functional mechs for a game where aiming is based on skill.

In fairness, those designs would also be trash in 'real life' for machines designed too be operated by a single pilot with no gunner - the build philosophies that work in MWO are much closer to what would work in reality (ignoring the overall silliness of using giant walkers in the first place, of course)

[LordNothing]

yes thats pretty much the way of it. but i think they should take this in consideration when balancing out mechs. the crappy variants don't really seem to get the same attention the mainline variants do. especially if the mainline variant is rather good.

one thing mw5 does to correct the weaker variants is to give them more slots for upgrades. carrying that over to mwo would just involve a quirk that grants extra skill nodes. the off variants tend to get a lot of weak general quirks, instead of strong specific quirks. since the later doesn't work on a mixed build so much. you could also strengthen the general quirks a lot, considering that you wont be able to use all of them unless you make your loadout really diverse.

mental load is real, i can manage about 3 groups with a different weapon system on each. or 4 if im doing a left right split of 2 different weapon systems. this is really intuitive but only really works with symmetrical builds, also on a lot of erll/ppc boats or srm brawlers. even just having to deal with a 4th weapon like a tag/narc is almost impossible to juggle without fumbling.

[Uzi Foo]

Vsolid, on 16 February 2023 - 02:15 AM, said:

This is pretty cool, I liked seeing the massive difference between low avg score vs high average score ratings of 'mechs. Seems like my favorite little CRBs are pretty well liked by relative noobs like me and not so much by people who are actually good lol.

I pilot the CRB a lot. But it's been less and less with how un-fun it is to pilot. The base torso twist speed is atrocious (108 vs 130+ for other IS medium mechs). It's a chore to play compared to any other 50 ton mech.

Edited by Uzi Foo, 16 February 2023 - 04:46 PM.

[Vorpal Puppy]

Very nice. I like seeing how the different groups rate the mechs. The last survey you did showed me I needed to take another look at the Grasshopper, which I now love playing. This one tells me I need to take a better look at the Hatamoto - what's the good variant and build? I have seen a few in game but have never been particularly impressed. --- edit - nevermind- figured it out - must be -27W with 3xAC5 and 4xERML

Also interesting to see the cauldron broken out separately. Explains why mechs like the Adder, and to a lesser extent the Cougar and Zues probably wont get much love from the Cauldron. They already think those mechs are about average but both the public and the elite teams disagree, at least as of the latest data. Very much appreciated!

Edited by Vorpal Puppy, 17 February 2023 - 12:32 PM.

[LordNothing]

the hatamoto id never have figured for good. its just a mech i filed into the meh category.

[Tarogato]

I added a new category to the results.

- Public vs Cauldron vs TopCompTeams

More info inside the sheet.

[An6ryMan69]

LordNothing, on 16 February 2023 - 12:32 PM, said:

yes thats pretty much the way of it. but i think they should take this in consideration when balancing out mechs. the crappy variants don't really seem to get the same attention the mainline variants do. especially if the mainline variant is rather good.

one thing mw5 does to correct the weaker variants is to give them more slots for upgrades. carrying that over to mwo would just involve a quirk that grants extra skill nodes. the off variants tend to get a lot of weak general quirks, instead of strong specific quirks. since the later doesn't work on a mixed build so much. you could also strengthen the general quirks a lot, considering that you wont be able to use all of them unless you make your loadout really diverse.

mental load is real, i can manage about 3 groups with a different weapon system on each. or 4 if im doing a left right split of 2 different weapon systems. this is really intuitive but only really works with symmetrical builds, also on a lot of erll/ppc boats or srm brawlers. even just having to deal with a 4th weapon like a tag/narc is almost impossible to juggle without fumbling.

Yep.

Despite not liking how it may reflect on my skill as a player, simpler is better when it comes to loadouts for me. My most successful mechs usually just have two weapon groups, often lasers and LRM's, or autocannons and srm's. A third weapon group isn't awful, but it does slow down my response time. More than three weapon groups is something I gave up on long ago.

[Rondoe]

An6ryMan69, on 17 February 2023 - 01:28 PM, said:

Yep.

Despite not liking how it may reflect on my skill as a player, simpler is better when it comes to loadouts for me. My most successful mechs usually just have two weapon groups, often lasers and LRM's, or autocannons and srm's. A third weapon group isn't awful, but it does slow down my response time. More than three weapon groups is something I gave up on long ago.

I gotta agree with this. I usually set up for brawling with 3 weapon groups. 1-guns 2-lasers and my 5 button for missles (srm's usually) If I run out of ammo those heat searing lasers are a backup. (I try not to run out of ammo)

Something I think about after watching Maverick though is another button to fire AMS instead of having it be passive. Maybe I'm just crazy then. Hate when it gives away my position.

[LordNothing]

An6ryMan69, on 17 February 2023 - 01:28 PM, said:

Yep.

Despite not liking how it may reflect on my skill as a player, simpler is better when it comes to loadouts for me. My most successful mechs usually just have two weapon groups, often lasers and LRM's, or autocannons and srm's. A third weapon group isn't awful, but it does slow down my response time. More than three weapon groups is something I gave up on long ago.

its really a finger limit for me. group 1 and 2 are just the left/right mouse buttons, which get a dedicated finger. but groups 3-6 are all at my thumb. my mouse has a 6-pack of buttons on the side with the top row sticking out more than the bottom. the front 2 are easy to get to, especially the top one, so i use that for my tertiary group (which is actually group 5 because i didn't want to change all my groupings when i changed mice). the one below it can be used if i want to split them up or if say i have 2 kinds of missiles (rare). they get harder to use further back and the top one is usually the easier to hit. so i never really use more than 4 even though i can in theory have all 6 on my mouse.