54 replies to this topic

[JC Daxion]

the MM really needs to take the whole into account, person+mech and then if they are in a group. Mechs have tiers, people have tiers, groups have tiers ect. So I'm not sure any MM system is going to help with out having that other stuff added.

But what if something like, your KDR in that mech gets added, along with the group your in with bonuses, Basically a star system.

Take a T1 person, They are in are in a group playing their top mech, Shouldn't they count as more than an average T1? Or maybe they are solo, and you have someone struggling to stay in T1, but a top person in a top mech could be considered a 5 star rating T1, verse.

I realize nothing is going to be perfect, But the MM does build decent matches, the problem is it doesn't seam like it always is taking everything into account. Often you can just look at the mechs and people and know how it's going to go. Of course not always with makes it more fun but everyone knows that a better balanced match would always be a good thing.

This isn't all about top players either, there are a lot of folks that just suck in some mechs but want to play them just because. For example i've sorta given up on playing with a gauss, It sucks for me and the team because i'm just not going to be pulling my weight so to speak. So why is me being in a mech that i'm at a .05 KDR on a mech i'm just terrible in not being taken into account? me in my hell-bringer verse me heavy with a HG is like night and day.


Once the players are picked for the match, the MM could then take all that other stuff into account to place them on the sides. (sorta gather the folks, then place the sides verse building the match as it goes)

I'm just wondering where all this new MM talk is going, and i really hope the mech is being taken into account, on top of the whole group thing in a new way.

[Sawk]

hmm not going to happen-- it is RULED by clans and groups of pilots, and also TIMEZONE of there drop, making it to tier one, is hard holding it is hard, i would say to you. you need to learn all 4 levels, do have learned to play A LIGHT, and a med, mech,

HMM do you have a KICk a## HEAVY , then we can talk about your KODA --- get some voice in game join a group, and start to rock ----

SAWK CLANNER

[crazytimes]

There aren't enough people for any kind of granularity. It sorts into 3 rough buckets, and that's better than nothing. I'd rather rough buckets than wasting my entire playing time sitting in queue, to find I've dropped with a 4 manner running flamer urbies for a meme stream.

[LordNothing]

i always considered different tiers for different weight classes. its possible for someone to be t1 in heavies and t5 in some other class. the bane of my existence is mediums. a lot of players think they are good with assaults and seldom are. and squirrels probibly have the worst skill spread of all.

it also doesn't change the mm equation any. the mm uses the psr for the weight class in which you drop.

having each variant have an actual battle value would be nice, but that changes the mm equation considerably.

[BLACKR0SE]

I just want to say this. People don't always play on powerful machines where it excels. playing on different machines. he wants to try. he's bored. looking for change.

I know machines I play well.
I know the machines that I kill a lot.
I also know the weapons that I killed a lot.
but I do not use.

People's moods are constantly changing.

so then your score. Does level matter? Does it matter whether you win or lose?

sorry for the spelling mistakes. google translate.

[sycocys]

Sawk, on 27 February 2023 - 05:18 PM, said:

hmm not going to happen-- it is RULED by clans and groups of pilots, and also TIMEZONE of there drop, making it to tier one, is hard holding it is hard

Since returning a couple months ago, I am nearly halfway through tier 3 in under 500 matches all solo drops (was reset to 5) playing almost exclusively medium mechs - the last month or so almost all HBK-4SP build variations with a couple dozen drops with a Dervish.

Going up in tier isn't particularly hard if you develop some skill in accurate shooting and an understanding of the reward structure. TBH it sort of amazes me to see players with twice as many drops that still haven't xp'd out of tier 5, seems like its intentional smurfing for the most part.

LordNothing, on 27 February 2023 - 06:28 PM, said:

i always considered different tiers for different weight classes. its possible for someone to be t1 in heavies and t5 in some other class. the bane of my existence is mediums. a lot of players think they are good with assaults and seldom are. and squirrels probibly have the worst skill spread of all.

it also doesn't change the mm equation any. the mm uses the psr for the weight class in which you drop.

I'm straight up T5 in assaults and not much better many heavy mechs. I can handle some limited play with lights, but its super short term like 1-2 drops and I'm out - it just hurts my head. But that's why I just play medium, well that and they are always low on drop % so the matches gather faster.

Regional prime time makes a huge difference as well - I can't get into the EU prime style of play at all. Oceanic is ok, the server response just sucks for srms.

[MrMadguy]

Some sort of AI should be added there, as MM should be more empirical, than purely mathematical. It shouldn't care about raw numbers. It should care about fun. MM should react to changing situation much more quicker. Current MM is way too inert. It takes hundreds of matches for it to settle down, while situation can change every minute. Playerbase isn't static. Players log in and log out constantly. MM should react much quicker. If 2-3 matches in a row have been bad - it should realize immediately, that it does something wrong.

[105howitzer]

I'm sure I've had the hell killed out of me by a T1, and it's funny, cause it seems most my teammates including myself are T7's or worse. And don't try to tell me "there are no T7's".

[Papaspud]

Get rid of the groups in QP is the first place to start. OP and potato groups killed group queue, now they are doing it to QP. hard to balance when all the elites are in 1 lance and the other team has the- all urbies with flamers potato lance. Game over before it even starts.

Just my opinion.

[JediPanther]

If you want a real challenge in mwo go to a pawn/junk shop and get a pc/laptop as close to the minimal system specs for mwo and try playing the game. It will be the power point version of the game. 30 fps will be a pipe dream.

[Tarl Cabot]

Papaspud, on 28 February 2023 - 11:43 AM, said:

Get rid of the groups in QP is the first place to start. OP and potato groups killed group queue, now they are doing it to QP. hard to balance when all the elites are in 1 lance and the other team has the- all urbies with flamers potato lance. Game over before it even starts.

Just my opinion.

What should have had happen would have been to restrict groups to a smaller size, 3 max, and only allow 2-men to drop combined. Also, instead of using max/min tonnage, allow only 1 mech/weight class.

Removing groups altogether, restricting them ONLY to FP would likely kill the population even quicker. Even back when the queues were separated, people still complained about the MM, though back then the Tier/PSR had been setup to move players towards tier 1, even those who today would be in Tier 6 (bottle of Tier 5 could earn their way to Tier 2 and 1 by brute force through the number of games they played.

And PGI killed off the FP population before they started making changes to the original setup, killing off a majority of the teams which played FP. Units dried up, for many friends were the glue that tied them to the game.. once PGI made decides that force the players from dropping into FP.. there then was no real incentives to log into the game.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 28 February 2023 - 05:10 PM.

[Heavy Money]

Having it take mechs/groups into account is going to achieve the opposite of what you want. That only serves to obfuscate a pilot's ability to deal damage and win. For example, if I'm t1 in my best heavy mech, and then I switch to a mech I'm less good in, then you are now more likely to get matched against me under your proposed system. In the current system, it treats me the same regardless. This works against me and in favor of you.

The skill distribution in the game is very uneven. Top players are not struggling to stay in t1. Their PSR generally goes up even on losses anyway. Any extra stuff added to the system is only going to serve to increase the likelihood of you being put against those players.

And the problem with the MM isn't that we don't know who the high scoring players are. It is that the MM isn't that great at distributing them across lobbies/teams.

Edited by Heavy Money, 28 February 2023 - 06:57 PM.

[JC Daxion]

I'm not sure if i just rambled to much, But my basic idea is all about getting the group, then using a second layer to take those players and place them on different sides.


Like me in my best mech, is so much different than me in my worse, but the MM only takes into account me.

That is why i'm saying add some multiples to it after the fact tacking into account, is the mech good, Am i also good in the mech, Do i excel in that mech more than the base line. All that could add Stars to that person when the MM finally takes the group of 24 and puts them on sides.

Like, a 10 star team on one side, and the other sides team is only a 3 star, But there are a couple solos that are 8 stars.. right now it's a total crap shoot where they end up. For me, the MM should load the solos on the other side.

It could take, you+mech, Plus how well you do in said mech and then if your in a team. they could even add a team rating, not for your specific team, but if you team a lot and win a lot on teams, you would get another Bonus mark.

basically what i'm saying unless they take you, the mech and how you play into account a T rating will never be the answer alone.

Heavy Money, on 28 February 2023 - 06:56 PM, said:

The skill distribution in the game is very uneven. Top players are not struggling to stay in t1. Their PSR generally goes up even on losses anyway. Any extra stuff added to the system is only going to serve to increase the likelihood of you being put against those players.

I am not talking about staying in T1, I'm talking about trying to get the matches sorta right. I could care less about what Tier i'm in. If i did car i wouldn't play mechs i'm bad, But if a person is a 3-4+ KDR player half the time in some mechs and a .5 in others, that should be taken into account or the MM is just hopelessly bad.

[Heavy Money]

JC Daxion, on 03 March 2023 - 03:45 PM, said:

I am not talking about staying in T1, I'm talking about trying to get the matches sorta right. I could care less about what Tier i'm in. If i did car i wouldn't play mechs i'm bad, But if a person is a 3-4+ KDR player half the time in some mechs and a .5 in others, that should be taken into account or the MM is just hopelessly bad.

Does that even really happen though? Players who are high skill in any mech tend to do well even in unfamiliar mechs still.

[JC Daxion]

It's not all about highly skilled players, It's about balancing the match. And yea, I have a pretty big range for my averages. Even take a mech i do fairly good in, I nearly double my KDR verse something i'm not so good in, even in the same mech. for example my stalker FB is nearly .5 KDR better than my 5M. I like playing them both, but i'm going to help the team more in my FB.

I like playing lights, but i'm also not as good in them, a few i do pretty close to what i can do in a heavy, but most i can't. Shouldn't that be taken into account?

the game tracks mechs, mechs have tiers, and people have stats with how well they play in them. If you have folks with KDR's or 3 or 4 in some mechs, but only 1 in others that should mean something.

maybe for some folks it wouldn't matter much, but there is a large portion of the players it does matter, especially people that like messing around in mechs that are not as good. Like i said, for me, If i'm playing me thunder bolt 5SS, It's one of my best mechs, If i drop in my 9S, not so much.

They can rework how tiers work for the player, but if they don't take into account the mech i think that is a mistake.

[crazytimes]

JC Daxion, on 04 March 2023 - 06:07 AM, said:

the game tracks mechs, mechs have tiers, and people have stats with how well they play in them. If you have folks with KDR's or 3 or 4 in some mechs, but only 1 in others that should mean something.

I don't have a KDR or WL of 1 across the board, and I play almost 100% solo. I am also hard pegged against the top of the PSR bar even after a session of heavy drinking and playing in meme builds. I just bought a gargoyle purely because everyone says they are terrible. Spoler alert- it is. It can do laser vomit sort of, but the hardpoints are way too low and undergunned for the tonnage.

Any system of any sort that gives me easier players to club isn't going to be a win for those players. But for some reason that's what all the mids want- to reshuffle the scoring so that I can kill them without worrying about the actually good players killing me.

PSR system isn't perfect, but there's no way of shuffling the few players we have that is going to make mids be any less mid. They just want easier matches for themselves, without considering that they're where they are for a reason.

[BLACKR0SE]

I don't know how many people are playing mwo right now. but i know this. each filter will slow down the game entry. and will increase the waiting time.

[H4RDCA5E]

The matchmaker itself is a secondary problem in this regard. Maps are the root of the problem imo. Almost none of them are team-playable and they're often so complex that casual players will never get the full grasp of them. Even vitric station is a 2 option map in regards of tactics; you either go left, or right... and for the most part these sides are completely separated, it's impossible to regroup or just any way to help teammates.

I don't think any matchmaker could mean any difference until the players are unable to be somewhat consistent in their playstyle, which is pretty much impossible when you don't actually know a map by pixel, or at least know where to look for enemies.
Being able to switch between your builds for your mech after you get to know what map you'll play on is also a pillar that's crucial for any mm to exist. Lots of matches are gone because the mm teams up 12 brawlers vs 12 snipers on alpine peaks...

[sycocys]

TAMTAMBABY, on 04 March 2023 - 06:35 PM, said:

I don't know how many people are playing mwo right now. but i know this. each filter will slow down the game entry. and will increase the waiting time.

There is something to be said about the population levels affecting things. Was browsing jarls and a bit surprised at how many names of the top 200 I recognize from seeing in matches. Not really much separation for tiers.

H4RDCA5E, on 05 March 2023 - 05:17 AM, said:

The matchmaker itself is a secondary problem in this regard. Maps are the root of the problem imo.

The maps, specifically the outstanding lack of them and variety is a massive problem for a game this old. There should have been at the very minimum at least 4 maps per year.

[GoatHILL]

If you can consistently get 300 damage a match you will make it to tier 1, it may take awhile but you will get there.

If you can not consistently get 300 damage per match you should think about changing your play style and or your mechs and builds.