120 replies to this topic

[Deceptor]

Quote

As for newbs I dont' see what the problem is and what does their love for anime have to do with anything.

Nwbs get Pwnd. Little Jimmy gets his big samurai sword and thinks he's all that, 'till someone blows his whole swing arm off. I understand a lot of anime is populated with giant super mega ultra bots, many of which have melee weapons.

[avatar]

I wouldn't mind having the basic rules. That is, if the 'Mech has arms and has not used arm-mounted weapons, it can punch. That's the easy thing to do. Kicking (with a chance of falling down) would be more complicated. There's no trouble if the kick connects. If the kick misses, there might be a requirement to use piloting (for example throttle and/or strafe) to keep the balance.

The chance to fall if missing a kick does somewhat balance kicking. Punches are balanced by the fact that if you have heavy weapons in your hands, you'll in many cases be better off using your weapons. And finally, you need to be at point blank.

And for those saying melee can't be effective, the counterargument is called "Victor". A successful jump behind a hostile 'Mech followed up by an AC/20 and a kick is pretty devastating. (Though admittedly, my favourite for that kind of work is the Guillotine.)

[OriontheHunter]

Deceptor, on 29 July 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

Probably based on your targeting ability. Anyway how do you think they should be implemented as far as hardpoints? I never used a mech for melee (unless you count Kamikaze).

Here's the construction rules for a hatchet:

Mechs may mount Hatchets in the arm locations only. Each arm may install a maximum of 1 Hatchet, and then only if the selected arm also possess a full set of arm and hand actuators. The weight, critical space and base damage for a hatchet is based directly on the weight of the BattleMech/IndustrialMech wielding it. Both the tonnage and critical slots taken up by a Hatchet are equal to the ‘Mech’s tonnage, divided by 15, rounding up to the nearest whole number. The hatchet’s base damage value is equal to the ‘Mech’s tonnage, divided by 5 (rounded up to the nearest whole).

Well, I would prefer they got rid of hardpoints all together and just used the TT construction rules, but in the context of hardpoints, I'd say let them be placed in any hardpoint that fits the above criteria. No need to create a new hardpoint class, but I'm not sure of what caused the devs to implement the hardpoint system in this game, so it's hard to know if that would cause problems with their balancing to do so.

Deceptor, on 29 July 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

Nwbs get Pwnd. Little Jimmy gets his big samurai sword and thinks he's all that, 'till someone blows his whole swing arm off. I understand a lot of anime is populated with giant super mega ultra bots, many of which have melee weapons.

I don't worry about Little Jimmy, as he's unlikely to stay in the game anyway, if he's looking for that kind of game.

[Lyran Scout]

melee in the battle tech universe was never there in other mech warrior games I've played but it would really be reduced to mechs that have arms let alone arms that are strong enough to swing at something. like and I would'nt expect a catapult trying to jump jet at an atlas and kicking it in the face and almost 1 shotting the atlas. I guess in the next few decades in the battle tech universe they could configure a mech that can affectively engage in melee then the mechs will end up with shields with S.R.Ms in them and energy blades of some kind to counter these new melee mechs.

I guess if a spider ran into a atlas at full speed it could bounce off and the damage could be divided by armour, weight and speed of each mech

[Elessar]

OriontheHunter, on 30 July 2012 - 12:06 AM, said:

....
I don't worry about Little Jimmy, as he's unlikely to stay in the game anyway, if he's looking for that kind of game.

Exactly ...
either little Jimmy learns that melee (if implemented) is just an addition, but no replacement for normal weapons, or this isn´t his kind of game

Rambos, after all, also have to learn that group play usually is better for their own survival

Edited by Elessar, 30 July 2012 - 12:20 AM.

[Ashla Mason]

If the developers are including rules for ramming and DFA then I think that including Melee combat (even if it is only on hatchet mechs) should deffinitley be considered.

[SakuranoSenshi]

PE - IS mechwarriors frequently engaged in melee and we don't have to wait decades at all, it's been commonplace for decades. Canonicity of the tactics are not in question, game balance and implementation are.

[DoctorJest]

I really loved Solaris when that TT supplement was released so implementing melee weapons would be great fun - if only perhaps in certain gladiatorial-style game modes?

[SamMelia]

Chromehounds on the 360 did it well, while no mechs had arms there was a melee module you could install on your mech in place of a ranged weapon.
It utilised hydraulic-powered tungsten spikes propelled at very short range, they would fire then take a few seconds to retract before you could fire again. You pretty much had to be on top of your enemy to make them work but they were highly effective.
Scouts mainly used them as you could evade enemy fire,get in close, and deliver half a dozen spikes thorugh the cockpit of the enemy.

[Scorpioneldar]

Deceptor, on 29 July 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

Nwbs get Pwnd. Little Jimmy gets his big samurai sword and thinks he's all that, 'till someone blows his whole swing arm off. I understand a lot of anime is populated with giant super mega ultra bots, many of which have melee weapons.

newbs also tend to pionereer new tactics try random **** i never would think off(both at least partially unwillingly as they have yet to figure out that this stuff can be stupid) and find awesome combos that the more experienced players rarely take the risk to try
course they 99/100 times just find a new way to fail (or reinvent old ones) but still newbs are inportant to the development and growth of a game player base and meta game
not really clear on little jimmy or his problems (many though they may or may not be)
and that big samurai sword is cannon and something i would love to use myself one day

[Azze]

I wouldn't mind melee if it was well implemented. It should not be a focus, more like addition, extremely situational ability that you use when someone comes too close and you wanna smack them to the ground for some free shots.

[Elessar]

Azze, on 01 August 2012 - 01:57 AM, said:

I wouldn't mind melee if it was well implemented. It should not be a focus, more like addition, extremely situational ability that you use when someone comes too close and you wanna smack them to the ground for some free shots.

Exactly ... like it usually is in TT

[justin xiang]

It would be especially nice to keep light mechs away from assaults. You wanna get all on my ***??? hell nah ****** slap/kick*

[NFSRacer]

I like the idea myself, but aside from mech penetrating, jackhammer-like weapons, I really don't see how this would be implemented in the game. It's a great idea, and very good against rushers, as I still see some players still use that tactic like what I've seen in Living Legends a time or two, but the animations I think would be the issue, especially when viewing from the cockpit view. What's more, to keep rushers from having at it with an Assault-class mech and likewise for those that like to circle their targets in high-speed, Jenner-class Scout mechs, there really needs to be a nice bit of tonnage with regard to keeping the weapon balanced. It's something, and again, a nice feature, but I don't see how it'd fit in here without issue...

[Taemien]

Melee weapons only work on mechs with hand actuators. That limits quite a few mechs. In addition I'm sure only mechs like the Axman and Hamato Chi would even have the melee hardpoints, they might even be forced to retain them depending on the variant.

The reason melee was never in a MechWarrior game before was the engine limitation. Oh and melee was added in a limited fashion in MW4:Mercs. Some of the Battle Armor there have claws. They work like a no-ammo ballistic weapon with a 5 meter range. There's not even an animation. I suppose hatchets and swords could have an animation, but it wouldn't have to be complex. If the reticle is pointing at a target when the weapon comes down, it does damage. Flinching and recoil isn't needed. Its unneeded animation that couldn't be visible in the heat of combat anyway.

I don't see people crying foul about frozen shadows.

[Zervziel]

My vote goes to "Maybe". I only want melee if it can be balanced well and so we don't have morons running around in nothing but melee builds.

Nothing grand, but maybe the ability to punt Jenners that try to hug up against my Atlas's legs.

[Xeno Phalcon]

God I want to punch someone so bad with my CN9-AH , especially after yesterday were me another CN9 and a enemy hunchback stared at each other cause no one had any weapons/ammo left.

Axman smaxman, I'll take a hatchetman now and a Berserker in six years.

]

Edited by Xeno Phalcon, 16 October 2012 - 08:47 AM.

[PurpleNinja]

IMHO I don't like meele, but I can live with it, since it's part o BattleTech universe. But I recall something like the clans never making use of it for some reason.

[Timuroslav]

I don't know about you guys, but having a guasapult bum rush me in an Atlas, and having that GIANT cockpit right in front of me to smash is one of the most frustrating thing in Mechwarrior. Especially, when dismantling is a key ability for a large portion of the mechs in Both Franchise. IE: Elementals and other Inner sphere Mechs. It was so affective against the clans they adapted their combat roles to it. People are afraid of armor greifers? So what!! If you're going to be dumb enough to bum rush a legion of mechs head on, more power to the enemy team that sticks together. Afraid of the knifing potential? consider the risks. you expose your Whole Clumsy mech to being shot at by the whole enemy team, and risk giving them an easier target to snipe or leg.

Melee IS ALREADY in the game, I've seen Mechs Land on top of other mechs destroying all their Torso weapons, it damages their legs a bit of course. I've seen Commandoes, and Jenners willing, and knowling ram other light mechs so the Heavy mechs can snipe the small guys. It's ALREADY IN THE GAME.

The Melee function if you have a weapon should be high damage because you're exposing your self to point blank range in the enemy team to possible maim or leg an Atlas. But doing it DOESNT have to be Easy and probable won't be. If anything it'll minimize the bumping and grinding game play, because mechs are so Awkward.

I just want to see Hand actuators move it doesn't have to be fluid gundam motion. But more like Rock'em Sockem Robots.

PurpleNinja, on 16 October 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

IMHO I don't like meele, but I can live with it, since it's part o BattleTech universe. But I recall something like the clans never making use of it for some reason.

This is wrong also, One of the Vital ideas of the Clanners is to swarm Assault Mechs with Elementals and dismantle them. The Clans live on the periphery, meaning they lack heavy Metals; you can learn this in Astronomy or Physics. This also means their Mechs and 'Superior clan tech' is easily destroyed. To counter this they developed Stronger Mech like suits that were nearly impossible to hit with mechs like the Daishi, and dismantled them with Hand Actuators.

You just don't want the game to turn into Call of Duty which is a respectable Fear.
And unless you build your Mech very poorly, there is almost NEVER a one shot kill in MechWarrior universe. It does happen, but it's a Once in a Blue Moon Event.

Edited by Timuroslav, 16 October 2012 - 09:34 AM.

[JP Josh]

mellee is comin guys just be patient we need to let them stabilize the game a bit more and get some better net code in before we move out to content wise