234 replies to this topic

[Aufelir]

The Fafnir hitbox change is pretty dumb. Also, battle passes are bad and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

Your EG7 is showing.

I'm so glad MWO is starting to turn into just another mobile game/CoD dumpster fire.

Edited by Aufelir, 04 April 2023 - 04:32 PM.

[Culnan]

Having now played a few games in it, I'm afraid I've got to come down on the 'Fafnir hitbox changes are total garbage' side. I struggle to think of a mech with such ridiculously squishy STs now. The mech sucks to play, and I really hope you'll either reverse this rubbish or give the mech some kind of compensatory buff to preserve its firepower (as opposed to now where it gets zombied instantly almost every game).

[martian]

kalashnikity, on 26 March 2023 - 09:45 AM, said:

I'm just laughing at the hmgx8 build on a Fafnir.

We all know it's gonna be (u)ac2x8

Typically, people do not run the default loadouts on the majority of MWO 'Mechs, unless they have some pretty good reason to do so.

[Roodkapje]

Culnan, on 10 April 2023 - 11:37 AM, said:

Having now played a few games in it, I'm afraid I've got to come down on the 'Fafnir hitbox changes are total garbage' side. I struggle to think of a mech with such ridiculously squishy STs now. The mech sucks to play, and I really hope you'll either reverse this rubbish or give the mech some kind of compensatory buff to preserve its firepower (as opposed to now where it gets zombied instantly almost every game).

The Fafnir simply sucks as a mech in total...

There is no reason to have one unless you fancy the 5 or 5B variant with (Heavy) Gauss and some ML/MPL's to back it up... That's it!

[C337Skymaster]

Roodkapje, on 14 April 2023 - 05:55 AM, said:

The Fafnir simply sucks as a mech in total...

There is no reason to have one unless you fancy the 5 or 5B variant with (Heavy) Gauss and some ML/MPL's to back it up... That's it!

In theory, it should be the only 'mech uniquely capable of running TWO Heavy Gauss Rifles, with every other platform restricted to just one, but the open 'mech lab being what it is, Annihilators just seem to do a better job of it.

[Roodkapje]

C337Skymaster, on 14 April 2023 - 12:17 PM, said:

In theory, it should be the only 'mech uniquely capable of running TWO Heavy Gauss Rifles, with every other platform restricted to just one, but the open 'mech lab being what it is, Annihilators just seem to do a better job of it.

IMHO the Heavy Gauss barely has a place in this game...

Same goes for Heavy PPC for example : Not even the AWS-8Q can make it work!

[C337Skymaster]

Roodkapje, on 16 April 2023 - 01:47 PM, said:

IMHO the Heavy Gauss barely has a place in this game...

Same goes for Heavy PPC for example : Not even the AWS-8Q can make it work!

That's been a function of gigaquirking over the years since their release, and particularly, giga-armor-quirking. Those weapons HURT, but with armor values skyrocketing, they're not the meat cleavers they used to be, and there's enough recharge time to escape to cover once you've been hit once.

[Roodkapje]

C337Skymaster, on 20 April 2023 - 07:30 AM, said:

That's been a function of gigaquirking over the years since their release, and particularly, giga-armor-quirking. Those weapons HURT, but with armor values skyrocketing, they're not the meat cleavers they used to be, and there's enough recharge time to escape to cover once you've been hit once.

OK, but the heat and or amount of slots and weight they need... It's horrible!

[C337Skymaster]

Roodkapje, on 22 April 2023 - 07:56 AM, said:

OK, but the heat and or amount of slots and weight they need... It's horrible!

That's how they're balanced. MWO has screwed that balance up quite a bit, but originally, super OP weapons were balanced by either generating stupid high heat, or using up a crazy number of crit slots to where they were easily crit out. One counter to using crazy numbers of crits was crit-splitting. You could install a weapon in a confined space by spreading some of its crits to the next-inward component (if arm installation, can split to side torso. If side torso installation, can crit split to CT). That's how we get the BSW-L1, which has an LBX 20 in the right arm, WITH lower arm and hand actuators. Putting a Heavy Gauss in an arm, however, produces so much recoil it'll rip the arm off. Same reason it can't go in a tank Turret. But you can use it with an XL engine: just split two crits into the CT. Can't do that with DUAL heavy Gauss, but only the Fafnir carries that monstrosity of a loadout, anyway.

And consider: this is 25 dmg in an environment where an Atlas carries 47 armor over its CT. Two hits to the CT, and you're through ALL the armor on an ATLAS, and doing crits. That is a VERY powerful weapon. Anything 12 dmg and up dealt to a single component has the potential of a headshot being an outright kill. Anything 10 dmg has the potential of being a headshot kill with a lucky roll (crit the cockpit, kill the pilot, even with the other two head structure points remaining).

ERPPC does 10 or 15 dmg at ranges that are hard to reach, so it does 15 heat. When a lot of 'mechs run 10 single heat sinks, that's a LOT of heat to deal with. Even with double heat sinks, running two of them is still really, really hot. To the point where it's rare to see three, and the Masakari is the ONLY 'mech to dare running four (at least in the Invasion/Civil War timeframe), and even at that, it can't try to use all 4 until it's gotten rid of its LRM ammo so it doesn't risk an ammo explosion.

But it has the ability to carve through most 'mechs with only a couple of shots, too, so the heat generated prevents that kind of firepower from being abused.

And the ability to stack a bunch of medium lasers together and get the same pinpoint damage as an autocannon with much higher weight, crits, and low ammo count, is a failing of MWO. The counterbalance between AC/20's and mass Medium Lasers is supposed to be that, while the medium lasers CAN deal more damage, overall, they individually have a risk of missing the target, and hit different components all over the 'mech. So you can deal 20 dmg to a single component, or you can deal 30 dmg in 5 dmg clusters to 6 components.

Edited by C337Skymaster, 28 April 2023 - 03:02 AM.

[KursedVixen]

C337Skymaster, on 28 April 2023 - 02:55 AM, said:

ERPPC does 10 or 15 dmg at ranges that are hard to reach, so it does 15 heat. When a lot of 'mechs run 10 single heat sinks, that's a LOT of heat to deal with. Even with double heat sinks, running two of them is still really, really hot. To the point where it's rare to see three, and the Masakari is the ONLY 'mech to dare running four (at least in the Invasion/Civil War timeframe), and even at that, it can't try to use all 4 until it's gotten rid of its LRM ammo so it doesn't risk an ammo explosion.

the warhawk/Masakari prime does not have the firepower to cut through mechs thanks to IS mechs having waaay to much bonus armor via quirks. also the C ERPPC only does 10 damage and 5 splash because I dunno.

Edited by KursedVixen, 28 April 2023 - 03:11 AM.

[C337Skymaster]

KursedVixen, on 28 April 2023 - 03:10 AM, said:

the warhawk/Masakari prime does not have the firepower to cut through mechs thanks to IS mechs having waaay to much bonus armor via quirks. also the C ERPPC only does 10 damage and 5 splash because I dunno.

I was talking the "real" stats of these weapons. Not the playdough mockup that MWO currently presents. IS ERPPC does 10 dmg. Clan ERPPC does 15. In a context where an Atlas has 47 front CT armor, that's a lot. In our context where that same Atlas has 150 front CT armor, it's not so much.

As a result, though, in order to balance a 6 ton, 2 crit weapon that can shoot 21 hexes with 15 dmg, it generates 15 heat, requiring an extra 15 tons of single heat sinks, or 7-ish tons of double heat sinks, bringing the total investment up to something equivalent to a Gauss Rifle or AC/20.

Edited by C337Skymaster, 30 April 2023 - 01:12 PM.

[SmokedJag]

C337Skymaster, on 30 April 2023 - 01:08 PM, said:

I was talking the "real" stats of these weapons. Not the playdough mockup that MWO currently presents. IS ERPPC does 10 dmg. Clan ERPPC does 15. In a context where an Atlas has 47 front CT armor, that's a lot. In our context where that same Atlas has 150 front CT armor, it's not so much.

As a result, though, in order to balance a 6 ton, 2 crit weapon that can shoot 21 hexes with 15 dmg, it generates 15 heat, requiring an extra 15 tons of single heat sinks, or 7-ish tons of double heat sinks, bringing the total investment up to something equivalent to a Gauss Rifle or AC/20.

The much higher armor values are trying to compensate for the fact you cannot pinpoint shoot in the source game and you can also miss with lasers. In a game that allows component aiming, just importing the straight number values is way too powerful. Older MechWarrior games did this and the PvP was pointless because they were instakill fests. Legs blown off immediately, torsos gone in two salvos at most. Nerfing pinpoint and buffing armor is mandatory for it to be playable.

There are many tabletop designs that are balanced only by the inability to call shots in normal circumstances/rules.

Edited by SmokedJag, 30 April 2023 - 02:08 PM.

[C337Skymaster]

SmokedJag, on 30 April 2023 - 02:06 PM, said:

The much higher armor values are trying to compensate for the fact you cannot pinpoint shoot in the source game and you can also miss with lasers. In a game that allows component aiming, just importing the straight number values is way too powerful. Older MechWarrior games did this and the PvP was pointless because they were instakill fests. Legs blown off immediately, torsos gone in two salvos at most. Nerfing pinpoint and buffing armor is mandatory for it to be playable.

There are many tabletop designs that are balanced only by the inability to call shots in normal circumstances/rules.

Yes, I'm aware. The complaint was that the giant crit sizes of things like Heavy Gauss were too punitive, and should be reduced, and I was making the counterpoint that that's the balancing mechanism for something that is otherwise borderline OP. What should be introduced is crit-splitting, so that you can fit a Heavy Gauss in with a LFE and split the extra crit to the CT. The balancing risk is that CT crits might explode your ST Gauss Rifle. My mention of TT armor values was an illustration of why those weapons are "OP", since that power has been significantly diluted in MWO. Also, why weapons like MLAS, which can be just as OP in MWO, aren't similarly sized. As you mention: they're supposed to scatter their shots wildly, not all scalpel through the same component with reliable precision.

[Roodkapje]

C337Skymaster, on 30 April 2023 - 01:08 PM, said:

IS ERPPC does 10 dmg. Clan ERPPC does 15. In a context where an Atlas has 47 front CT armor, that's a lot. In our context where that same Atlas has 150 front CT armor, it's not so much.

Time for some kind of "Hardcore Mode" in our little MWO game ?!

[Scalped Taters]

Goose, on 17 March 2023 - 04:45 PM, said:

What is this "battle pass"? My people do not have this word …

I believe the Battlepass is a system of EARNING the different rewards that often come with a mech or mech pack when you buy it early. Rather than get them all at once upon purchase, now you have to play the mech and at different levels of XP you are rewarded with that tier- level item. The only plus side i see to this is that it makes you learn how to play the mech well and good, due to having to EARN those tier items by playing it often, rather then being able to instantly use those items on that mech or with others once purchased.