234 replies to this topic

[Navid A1]

Was Terra Therma Crucible update supposed to be in this patch?

[C337Skymaster]

InnerSphereNews, on 17 March 2023 - 04:30 PM, said:

KINTARO
KTO-18: <p style="">

• Added -7.5% SRM heat
  
• Added 10% SRM Range
  
• Added -10% SRM Spread
  
• Increased LA Armor bonus to +20 (from +10)

KTO-19: <p style="">

• Removed -10% LRM spread
  
• Removed +15s Narc duration
  
• Removed -15% Energy cooldown
  
• Removed 15% Pulse laser range
  
• Added 10% Range
  
• Added -15% Streak SRM heat
  
• Added 10% Streak SRM Velocity
  
• Added +50% Streak SRM Ammo per ton
  
• Increased LA, RA Armor bonuses to +20 (from +10)

KTO-20: <p style="">

• Removed -10% STD Laser duration
  
• Removed -10% LRM cooldown
  
• Removed -10% LRM spread
  
• Removed 10% MRM Velocity
  
• Removed 10% Missile range
  
• Removed 10% Energy range
  
• Added 10% Range
  
• Added -30% Pulse laser duration
  
• Increased RA Armor bonus to +20 (from +10)

KTO-GB:

• Removed -5% Energy heat
  
• Removed -5% Missile heat
  
• Removed 10% Energy range
  
• Removed 20% Medium pulse laser range
  
• Removed 20% SRM Range
  
• Removed 20% SRM Velocity
  
• Removed -10% Missile cooldown
  
• Added -15% heat
  
• Added 15% Range
  
• Added -5% cooldown
  
• Added 30% MRM velocity
  
• Added -10% MRM cooldown
  
• Added -10% Missile spread
  
• Increased LA, RA Armor bonuses to +20 (from +10)

See, changes like this feel more like "My meta boat" and a lot less like "balancing it so anyone can make anything work and have fun and be variable".

This is the sort of thing that makes people want to remove all quirks entirely, and go back to a vanilla game where every SRM fires the same rate, same distance, for the same heat, etc, and be done with encouraging specific META builds on specific 'mechs.

Obviously, the KTO-18 is meant to be an SRM bomber, the -19 is meant to be a streak boat, and the -20 is meant to be a pulse laser boat, rather than letting pilots be creative on their own.

Quirks to assist the stock builds made sense. This just feels like someone abusing their power for personal benefit.

[Heavy Money]

C337Skymaster, on 17 March 2023 - 06:58 PM, said:

See, changes like this feel more like "My meta boat" and a lot less like "balancing it so anyone can make anything work and have fun and be variable". This is the sort of thing that makes people want to remove all quirks entirely, and go back to a vanilla game where every SRM fires the same rate, same distance, for the same heat, etc, and be done with encouraging specific META builds on specific 'mechs. Obviously, the KTO-18 is meant to be an SRM bomber, the -19 is meant to be a streak boat, and the -20 is meant to be a pulse laser boat, rather than letting pilots be creative on their own. Quirks to assist the stock builds made sense. This just feels like someone abusing their power for personal benefit.

They do it this way because otherwise every variant will be too similar. Also, the KTO is terrible and needed something. Also also, what you are proposing would just make most mechs redundant. If weapons are the same on every mech, then the game will just be ruled by a few mechs that have the best mounts/hitboxes or other such things that exist in this game that aren't in the tabletop.

[Fu Sun]

An6ryMan69, on 17 March 2023 - 05:42 PM, said:

The Legendary mech thing seems intriguing for sure; lots of potential there with outlier quirks.

Not sure why the Hatamoto got stepped on, they are quite rare and I don't seen them being the deciding factor in matches I play, ever.

The Jenner did need a hand, so that's cool.

But Jenners don't have hands. *rimshot*

[C337Skymaster]

Heavy Money, on 17 March 2023 - 07:26 PM, said:

They do it this way because otherwise every variant will be too similar. Also, the KTO is terrible and needed something. Also also, what you are proposing would just make most mechs redundant. If weapons are the same on every mech, then the game will just be ruled by a few mechs that have the best mounts/hitboxes or other such things that exist in this game that aren't in the tabletop.

I was making a point.

This is cherrypicking someone's pet build that they pulled out of their ***, and adding quirks to pigeon hole the 'mech into that pet build. As I said: quirks made sense when they were helping a stock build compete, in large part because they then fit into the "flavor" of that particular 'mech. There is no rhyme or reason to any of this, apart from "we felt like it" or "we think it'll perform well in our next Comp season, and we want these quirks so we can use it this way".

Heck, they're removing the NARC quirks from the -19, even though the writeup for that 'mech literally centers around that single function. The Kintaro was designed to be an SLDF NARC 'mech, with a mix of other weapons to help it fight while it was performing its primary job of spotting for its lancemates. Now it's a streak-boat and nothing else?

At least when they removed the NARC duration from the Raven (something else for whom NARCs are a major part of its identity), they doubled the NARC cooldown, so it still lives up to its reputation, and can perform the same role, it just requires more active input from the pilot, and is less of a passive activity. That seemed fair enough, given the combination of NARC duration and Stealth Armor. I don't see Kintaros abusing their NARC quirk (or running NARCs at all, for that matter).

[HammerSmythe]

I keep reading these patch notes, hoping to see the Huginn make a comeback with just a bit more SRM 4 cooldown....

[MPhoenix]

C337Skymaster, on 17 March 2023 - 06:58 PM, said:

See, changes like this feel more like "My meta boat" and a lot less like "balancing it so anyone can make anything work and have fun and be variable".

This is the sort of thing that makes people want to remove all quirks entirely, and go back to a vanilla game where every SRM fires the same rate, same distance, for the same heat, etc, and be done with encouraging specific META builds on specific 'mechs.

Obviously, the KTO-18 is meant to be an SRM bomber, the -19 is meant to be a streak boat, and the -20 is meant to be a pulse laser boat, rather than letting pilots be creative on their own.

Quirks to assist the stock builds made sense. This just feels like someone abusing their power for personal benefit.

Very much so. Why not just eliminate quirks and post a 'Builds I like that you can use' thread?

Heavy Money, on 17 March 2023 - 07:26 PM, said:

Also, the KTO is terrible and needed something.

Yeah it did but I'm pretty sure 'shot in the groin and dumped in the Everglades' wasn't what it needed.

Look at the Kintaro 20, three missile slots and four energy slots, two of which can only be used by single slot weapons.
So let's remove every single missile quirk and leave the energy option limited at, oh, say med. pulse lasers.
It's asinine.

Heavy Money, on 17 March 2023 - 07:26 PM, said:

then the game will just be ruled by a few mechs that have the best mounts/hitboxes or other such things that exist in this game that aren't in the tabletop.

Which would be different from this how?

Edited by MPhoenix, 17 March 2023 - 10:09 PM.

[Heavy Money]

C337Skymaster, on 17 March 2023 - 07:44 PM, said:

I was making a point.

This is cherrypicking someone's pet build that they pulled out of their ***, and adding quirks to pigeon hole the 'mech into that pet build. As I said: quirks made sense when they were helping a stock build compete, in large part because they then fit into the "flavor" of that particular 'mech. There is no rhyme or reason to any of this, apart from "we felt like it" or "we think it'll perform well in our next Comp season, and we want these quirks so we can use it this way".

Heck, they're removing the NARC quirks from the -19, even though the writeup for that 'mech literally centers around that single function. The Kintaro was designed to be an SLDF NARC 'mech, with a mix of other weapons to help it fight while it was performing its primary job of spotting for its lancemates. Now it's a streak-boat and nothing else?

At least when they removed the NARC duration from the Raven (something else for whom NARCs are a major part of its identity), they doubled the NARC cooldown, so it still lives up to its reputation, and can perform the same role, it just requires more active input from the pilot, and is less of a passive activity. That seemed fair enough, given the combination of NARC duration and Stealth Armor. I don't see Kintaros abusing their NARC quirk (or running NARCs at all, for that matter).

Its not arbitrary and its not just someone's pet build either. Suggestions were made and discussed by lots of people. They have been quirked to let them have different specialties from each other and from lots of other similar mechs. There's a huge number of IS mediums with a mix of energy and missiles. Kintaro, Dervish, Griffin, and Hellspawn are all very similar on hardpoints. Then there's also Energy+Missile variants most other medium chassis. There's a lot more mechs than loadouts. And many of those mechs are significantly larger than others. Kintaro and Griffin in particular have some of the worst size and hitboxes.

So the project has been to quirk things so that each of these mechs is appreciably different. And you're just here ignoring how much thought has gone into this because your idea of just magically solving all the games problems by reverting to tabletop values has been rejected by everybody.

Also, NARC quirks are being removed because NARC is generally a bad mechanic that makes the game worse in low level play by encouraging LRM spam, and in high level play by granting mega scouting. There's been a move to reduce the effectiveness of NARC because the wider community has overwhelmingly requested it.

MPhoenix, on 17 March 2023 - 10:06 PM, said:

Which would be different from this how?

Compare to a couple years ago before the Cauldron began. Most mechs were not worth using. Now its only a few oddballs left that are really bad, and that's mostly because of mount and hitbox issues that they cannot change. Sure some are still better than others, but the margins have been closed a lot.

Edited by Heavy Money, 17 March 2023 - 10:12 PM.

[Rhaelcan]

Also, I am hoping the colors and decals in the event pass will be special and unique. Legendary. Instead of just a simple ol color, you could make it have uniqueness to it. Like a pattern, like two colors in that one color in a pattern style. Or have it have texture to it. Some say a gold color that makes the color shiny where it was at. If we get that, it'll be great.

So please, PGI. Make it truly, legendary.

[Necroconvict]

So you sell the Hatamoto as a Plat mech, and then nerf it 2 weeks later... FU buddy, seriously? That mech is the only reason I even bought that crummy package.

[mytilus edulis]

An6ryMan69, on 17 March 2023 - 05:42 PM, said:

Not sure why the Hatamoto got stepped on, they are quite rare and I don't seen them being the deciding factor in matches I play, ever.

my guess is comp balance, which isn't supposed to be a basis , but whatever

[Divkrd]

Yay! Couldron buffing mech they farm with, and nerf mechs they got farmed with, what a surprise!

[Ch_R0me]

Quote

Each Legendary 'Mech is a new variant of an existing chassis, has a custom paint job, an "outlier" quirk, and a 30% C-Bill boost. Also included with each pack is the new mini battle pass system driven by 'Mech XP. Just by playing the 'Mech, you will earn GSP, C-Bills, MC, Premium Time, and exclusive Cockpit Items, Decals, Colors, and Bolt-Ons! However, unlike a typical battle pass system, there will be no expiration date to earn these extra items. Take as long as you need!

Was about to say:



But in the end, you've managed to do the "battle pass" thing damn right, probably as a first company to do so.

Congrats, your reputation just went up.


Now seriously though: it's pretty much a decade where MwO exists "as is", in dated CryEngine game engine, so please consider porting the MwO into Amazon's O3DE (Open 3D Engine) or just UE5, ok?

[DONTOR]

8 ballistic FAF, and 6 ballistic MK2, Dakka lords are happy

Divkrd, on 17 March 2023 - 11:00 PM, said:

Yay! Couldron buffing mech they farm with, and nerf mechs they got farmed with, what a surprise!

yeah the cauldron LOVES Kintaros im sure...

[mytilus edulis]

Divkrd, on 17 March 2023 - 11:00 PM, said:

Yay! Couldron buffing mech they farm with, and nerf mechs they got farmed with, what a surprise!

ehhhh the HTM-27W was a mech they definitely farmed with, and it just got nerfed

[Dyex]

Divkrd, on 17 March 2023 - 11:00 PM, said:

Yay! Couldron buffing mech they farm with, and nerf mechs they got farmed with, what a surprise!

I do like change to keep things interesting, and they are not terrible changes.
But honestly, this feels like grooming mechs more then balance changes...

Direwolf really needs buffs? Yes it's shaped like a shitbrick but it's a farm monster sitting in the far back boons sniping people.
Now I guess it just got even better - goodie...

Edited by Dyex, 18 March 2023 - 01:41 AM.

[Scout Derek]

Lmao, Kintaro 20 is going to be a LPL mech... that's pretty sad tbh. But I'll play the rest. Goldenboy looks to be the most OP of them all though, but I wager that's what happens when you suck the other two kintaros of any quirks and add it to the hero like some vampiric ability.

18 will be alright, but now with better quirks so you might have a chance.

19 will still be bad, the reshuffle of quirks basically makes it a meme light hunter still. No speed quirk or extra UAV slots ilkely means this will still suffer the same problems.

Goldenboy will be extremely good thanks to hyper MRM quirks. One thing I see all of them not having though is top speed quirks... for the brawl focused ones, though I'd just reshuffle all the quirks again and make the kintaro focus on what it's made for instead of an imitation for one of the variants, that being the LPL focused one. Just seems like a flavor variant because what we needed was another LPL quirked focus mech on a variant that doesn't really work well on it, right?

Champion 2N clearly quirked in mind to be OP.

Awesome 8T might be actually good now.


And why did the direwolf get more good quirks? Really? Pretty easy to guess who did this patch the more you look at it.

[evil kerensky]

Please, for the love of God, can the griffin 2n and hunchback 4sp get buffed? Their so undergunned now, but they used to be so fun. Armour quirks on both, and arm quirks on the griffin would be nice. Maybe a general arm spread buff too next time? Plz and ty.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Heavy Money, on 17 March 2023 - 10:12 PM, said:

Also, NARC quirks are being removed because NARC is generally a bad mechanic that makes the game worse in low level play by encouraging LRM spam, and in high level play by granting mega scouting.

~hmm~
Something in there doesn't quite add up for me. In order to actually "encourage" LRM spam at "low level play" (I guess you mean in the lower tiers but somehow went with a potentially pejorative choice of words) the players running a LRM mech would have to know that their matches will have NARC mechs. That's not a guarantee in the dominant playmode called "quick play". Now I won't deny that a group drop could do that, but if such coordinated groups are successful with such a strategy they'll rather quickly leave those lower tiers behind. If the strategy fails then neither NARC nor the increased "LRM spam" had any negative effect on the "low level play" that warrants the label "worse".

As for the "mega scouting" in high level play? And here I thought those "high level" players wanted their "skill" in positioning, movement, seeking cover and not just their "twitch aim" to be relevant.

I can't help but feel that your conclusion of NARC being "a generally bad mechanic" is more of a non-sequitur than anything else.

Heavy Money, on 17 March 2023 - 10:12 PM, said:

There's been a move to reduce the effectiveness of NARC because the wider community has overwhelmingly requested it.

Just to satisfy my curiosity:

• Where exactly did that "wider community" voice that request in an "overwhelmingly" manner?
  
• How large is that "wider community" actually?
  
• Do you have verifiable numbers on how many times NARC is actually used "in low level play" as well as numbers on "in high level play"? My personal - and thus anecdotal - experience "low level play" tells me that I'm seeing NARC even fewer times than the alleged "OP" PIR-1 and when it shows up more than often there aren't any noteworthy LRM mechs around to benefit from the player that applied NARC to the enemy.

[Divkrd]

Dyex, on 18 March 2023 - 01:39 AM, said:

I do like change to keep things interesting, and they are not terrible changes.
But honestly, this feels like grooming mechs more then balance changes...

Direwolf really needs buffs? Yes it's shaped like a shitbrick but it's a farm monster sitting in the far back boons sniping people.
Now I guess it just got even better - goodie...

Dire doesn't need buff, it's the most represented mech arcoss all tiers for a reason. But noooo, they nerf mechs anyone barely plays, and buff the most used mech in the game. You know why? Because they farm noobs with Dires, why would they nerf something they use all the time, right?