17 replies to this topic

[w0qj]

This question is directed to only those privileged to own both Legendary mechs:

Which is better, FNR-J(LGD) or MCII-MWK(LGD)?

[Cryorm]

Depends on if you want to go full ballistic with IS ballistics, or if you want a more mixed loadout, AND how you want to play. If you want to be in the thick of it and want to face tank a bit (brawl), Fafnir. If you're more of a skirmisher, or a long-range damager, the MADCATII would be a better fit for you, with the inclusion of JJ's and a higher speed. Fafnir has 8 ballistic hardpoints with MG quirks for +50% range and 25% RoF, but I don't know the moonwalker quirks off the top of my head aside from the higher reverse speed.

[Pondafarr]

Right now, the Moonwalker is better. 3-4 AC10 plus PPC or LPLas is doing very well. 5 UAC2 plus PPC or LPLas is doing well. CT is ballistics only, so limited to an AC2 or MG. Best load I saw last night was 1 LPLas, 4xSRM6, and 5xLMG. I haven't built mine yet, but I'll prolly go that route.

The Juggernaut has potential, but they simultaneously nerfed the survivability of the entire Fafnir line. The stock loadout of the Juggernaut is garbage as well (8xHMG and MASC). Once you put a useable loadout, you can't fit MASC anymore. Without MASC, the lack of ECM shows. Leading builds for the Jugg are 8xAC2; 4xLBx10 and 4xLGM; i tried 4xUAC5 and 4xLGM, but the UAC5 doubletap has always been problematic for me. I'm a moderate-decent player, and topped out at 600dmg with the LBX10 loadout last night. Most matches I had were 150-250 dmg. The mech is just too squishy now to do more (especially on that junk new map)

YMMV

[Hauptmann Keg Steiner]

Pondafarr, on 22 March 2023 - 09:56 AM, said:

Right now, the Moonwalker is better. 3-4 AC10 plus PPC or LPLas is doing very well. 5 UAC2 plus PPC or LPLas is doing well. CT is ballistics only, so limited to an AC2 or MG. Best load I saw last night was 1 LPLas, 4xSRM6, and 5xLMG. I haven't built mine yet, but I'll prolly go that route.

The Juggernaut has potential, but they simultaneously nerfed the survivability of the entire Fafnir line. The stock loadout of the Juggernaut is garbage as well (8xHMG and MASC). Once you put a useable loadout, you can't fit MASC anymore. Without MASC, the lack of ECM shows. Leading builds for the Jugg are 8xAC2; 4xLBx10 and 4xLGM; i tried 4xUAC5 and 4xLGM, but the UAC5 doubletap has always been problematic for me. I'm a moderate-decent player, and topped out at 600dmg with the LBX10 loadout last night. Most matches I had were 150-250 dmg. The mech is just too squishy now to do more (especially on that junk new map)

YMMV

There's also a missile hardpoint in the Moonwalker CT, for what that's worth.

There's no fixing the Fafnir's hitboxes without just redesigning the model; you're either going to always hit the CT, or always hit the STs. Making the arm barrels super long so you could shield with them (a la MW4) might be a solution, I guess.

[Ockish]

I tried many combinations with the Fafnir yesterday an I had almost the exact results as Pondafarr.
I even tried 4 AC20 (not at all recommended, way too hot) Although it was great when I 1 shot a fresh locust in the first few minutes and shut down for longer than I have ever shut down before..
I ended up running the 4 LB10x and 4 HMG, but damage was about half what you would expect for an Assault, and beyond that it is much more inconsistent than it should be, which is disappointing.
The Fafnir is so wide it catches a lot of dps that would otherwise pass by a smaller profile. The CT has been essentially removed from the front facing profile so it has 2/3 the effective face tank armor as most other assaults. To make it worse twisting does no good because the weak points are the sides, and because of the symmetry of the best loadouts your gimped if you loose even one side.
All in all I won't be running this much and probably would not buy it if I had known this before.

[RockmachinE]

Probably the MadCat.

[LordNothing]

moonwalker is definately better. faf's role as an is ultraviolet is less good. since an eightpack of is ac2s is 8 tons more than the clan equivalent. im honestly not sure what to do with the jugg. maybe dual hgauss backed with hmgs.

[PocketYoda]

They are different beasts.. Moonwalker is great but so is Juggernaut They excel at different aspects.. One some what ranged, one a powerhouse..
mcii-mwklgd

But Jugg can be used as a sniper.

fnr-jlgd

Edited by PocketYoda, 23 March 2023 - 03:45 AM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

w0qj, on 22 March 2023 - 07:19 AM, said:

This question is directed to only those privileged to own both Legendary mechs:

Which is better, FNR-J(LGD) or MCII-MWK(LGD)?

Are you implying you are not getting both? Suddenly on a budget? Or are you saving funds for that MDD-Prime(I)?

[w0qj]

Many thanks to everyone's very quick replies, giving invaluable insights into FNR-J(LGD)!

I actually love the new Free Worlds Coliseum; brawling ballistic mech builds can thrive in the centre, especially in Domination mode!

Agile mechs with cockpit level (or higher) weapons will thrive in this new map!

Still want my MDD-Prime(I), and that DWF-Prime(I) now looks downright scary with recent MWO buffs!

1. Just bought the Fafnir Juggernaut FNR-J(LGD)
My card provider frowns upon two consecutive internet purchases of same prices! (Avoids potential confusion, I guess...)
So in practice the 2x Legendary Mechs gets purchased over 2 calendar days...

Comments on FNR-J(LGD) to follow in a separate post below!

Aidan Crenshaw, on 23 March 2023 - 04:09 AM, said:

...are you saving funds for that MDD-Prime(I)?

Edited by w0qj, 23 March 2023 - 07:40 AM.

[w0qj]

Dear MWO, please return the -10% Heat quirk back to FNR-J(LGD), which was supposed to be a 'chassis-wide' -10% Heat quirk for all Fafnir variants!
(Better still, please give ECM to FNR-J(LGD)! )

1. My favorite IS ballistic assault mech is the ANH-2A(S): 6x AC5 (with -10% Ballistic Heat quirk).
https://mwo.nav-alph...2bf40ac_ANH-2AS
Just eat the ghost heat, fire all 6xAC5 at once! All Assaults mechs will shrink from your bullet storm, both Clan + IS
The RJF (Russian Jade Falcon) used this on us during MWO Comp 2021, and it was...painful...)

2. In the same vein, my favorite Fafnir build build is very similar, an 'imitation' of above ANH-2A(S) build:
FNR-5(S): 4x AC5 + 2x Light PPC (with ECM, with -10% Heat)
https://mwo.nav-alph...1532f4c6_FNR-5S
~Slightly less sustained damage output than above ANH-2A(S) with 6x AC5, and less sustained damage output than FNR-J(LGD).
~Upsides of this build: Light PPC defeats the enemy's ECM, alerting your teammates as well!
~Severe weapon cooldown mismatch between AC5 vs Light PPC though, but with more usable ballistic ammo than ANH-2A(S).
~Today (after this 21-March-2023 patch), I've had my FNR-5(S) with 6x Kills and 900+ damage on the Free Worlds Coliseum map, hill humping and taking advantage of my ECM!

3. I feel slightly uncomfortable before FNR-J(LGD) purchase: Iwill not use 8xMG build, and I will not use 8x AC2 builds.
https://mwo.nav-alph...c2f949_FNR-JLGD
~Therefore Legendary MG quirks are literally useless to me.
~FNR-J loses ECM, and also loses -10% Heat 'chassis-wide' quirk (!)
~My FNR-5 is strong in this aspect (ECM, and -10% Heat).
==>So my FNR-5 is stronger than my FNR-J legendary mech??

Dear MWO, please return the -10% Heat quirk back to FNR-J(LGD), which was supposed to be a 'chassis-wide' -10% Heat quirk for all Fafnir variants!
(Better still, please give ECM to FNR-J(LGD)! )

Edited by w0qj, 23 March 2023 - 08:11 AM.

[An6ryMan69]

w0qj, on 23 March 2023 - 08:09 AM, said:

Dear MWO, please return the -10% Heat quirk back to FNR-J(LGD), which was supposed to be a 'chassis-wide' -10% Heat quirk for all Fafnir variants!
(Better still, please give ECM to FNR-J(LGD)! )

1. My favorite IS ballistic assault mech is the ANH-2A(S): 6x AC5 (with -10% Ballistic Heat quirk).
https://mwo.nav-alph...2bf40ac_ANH-2AS
Just eat the ghost heat, fire all 6xAC5 at once! All Assaults mechs will shrink from your bullet storm, both Clan + IS
The RJF (Russian Jade Falcon) used this on us during MWO Comp 2021, and it was...painful...)

2. In the same vein, my favorite Fafnir build build is very similar, an 'imitation' of above ANH-2A(S) build:
FNR-5(S): 4x AC5 + 2x Light PPC (with ECM, with -10% Heat)
https://mwo.nav-alph...1532f4c6_FNR-5S
~Slightly less sustained damage output than above ANH-2A(S) with 6x AC5, and less sustained damage output than FNR-J(LGD).
~Upsides of this build: Light PPC defeats the enemy's ECM, alerting your teammates as well!
~Severe weapon cooldown mismatch between AC5 vs Light PPC though, but with more usable ballistic ammo than ANH-2A(S).
~Today (after this 21-March-2023 patch), I've had my FNR-5(S) with 6x Kills and 900+ damage on the Free Worlds Coliseum map, hill humping and taking advantage of my ECM!

3. I feel slightly uncomfortable before FNR-J(LGD) purchase: Iwill not use 8xMG build, and I will not use 8x AC2 builds.
https://mwo.nav-alph...c2f949_FNR-JLGD
~Therefore Legendary MG quirks are literally useless to me.
~FNR-J loses ECM, and also loses -10% Heat 'chassis-wide' quirk (!)
~My FNR-5 is strong in this aspect (ECM, and -10% Heat).
==>So my FNR-5 is stronger than my FNR-J legendary mech??

Dear MWO, please return the -10% Heat quirk back to FNR-J(LGD), which was supposed to be a 'chassis-wide' -10% Heat quirk for all Fafnir variants!
(Better still, please give ECM to FNR-J(LGD)! )

Yep, totally agree.

And, not sure why, but even finding the quirks for these mechs is a major PITA - having to look in MechDB for them is not cool - they should be splashed all over the sales pages for these babies but I cannot find them there at all.

I had just assumed I would buy both these Legendaries, but the quirks on these mechs are not up to par, and quirks make or break mechs in MWO.

Besides no ECM and no chassis wide heat quirk, am I reading the Juggernaut quirks wrong or does it actually have only +20 CT armor instead of +38 like all the other Fafnir's? So Legendary means -18 points of CT armor? The Juggernaut needs more armor and ballistic ammo and heat quirks if it's going to compete with existing Fafnir's or the Ultraviolet 8XAC builds.

The Moonwalker reverse speed quirk being the only quirk I can see is also just silly. Give the thing some more armor and a couple of ballistic related quirks and we'd have something to talk about.

I do, DEFINITELY, like the battle pass system - that was done perfectly. So great stuff there.

I am looking forward to future Legendary mechs, to see if they are at least competitive with the best already out there within their respective chassis.

But until these individual mechs get decent quirks I'd rather run around with my quirked up Centurions or Hunchbacks; so right now, "which is better?" I think is neither.

Edited by An6ryMan69, 24 March 2023 - 09:17 AM.

[w0qj]

1. Here is a screenshot of FNR-J Juggernaut Legendary Mech, with no equipment for everyone's information.
https://mwo.nav-alph...echlab/fnr-jlgd
https://media.discor...=905&height=601

Update: MWO just said that there's a FNR-J armor bug, meaning that its bonus armor would be increased from what it is as of this writing and this above ScreenShot.

(Yes, you've read it right, my Legendary Juggernaut FNR-J has less CT armor than my FNR-5E as of this writing!
FNR-J: after hotfix, it would have +20 / +20 / +20 CT/RT/LT
FNR-5E: my mech with ECM has +38 / +16 / +16 CT/RT/LT
So my FNR-5E with ECM has more CT armor than my Legendary mech Juggernaut FNR-J ?)


2. Here is a screenshot of MCII-MWK Moonwalker Legendary Mech, with no equipment for everyone's information.
https://mwo.nav-alph...lab/mcii-mwklgd
https://media.discor...=905&height=601



(Agree that those who have not purchased MCII-MWK or FNR-J Legendary Mechs have limited or no access to theory craft build ideas is not helping the rumor situation. Even the MechDB 2.0 website does not have these two mechs as of this writing! MechDB 2.0 actually took down FNR-J mech layout from its website!).
(Many thanks to Heavy Money & Lockheed_ for the E&OE!)

Quote

PLEASE NOTE: WE DISCOVERED AN ERROR WITH THE MOONWALKER BUILD. WE HAVE UPDATED THE GRAPHIC!

THERE WILL BE A HOTFIX FOLLOWING THE PATCH TO UPDATE THE MECH.
ERROR: MISSING ARM ACTUATORS

Heavy Money, on 24 March 2023 - 03:10 PM, said:

MechDB has them both, you just need to uncheck Hide Specials.

Edited by w0qj, 24 March 2023 - 04:31 PM.

[Tromoskyon Rex]

I wont be trying the Moonwalker any time soon because Im not a fan of the MK2s Ive tried. The Juggernaut with dual Heavy Gauss is a delight though. It is a complete waste of the quirks but giving the cockpit delete button a MASC has been great.

[Battlemaster56]

DOn't bother with the Juggernuat unless you gonna play a build that doesn't require any face time it hitbox adjustments pretty much made the mech **** tier unless you decide just sit back with guass all day, stick with the moonwalker it far better and wasn't nerf in this patch.

[L1f3H4ck]

An6ryMan69, on 24 March 2023 - 09:15 AM, said:

The Moonwalker reverse speed quirk being the only quirk I can see is also just silly. Give the thing some more armor and a couple of ballistic related quirks and we'd have something to talk about.

The fast reverse is godly vs. light mechs

[Rondoe]

IMO the Madcat is much better. But my Madcat MKII-B still is better.

My Fafnir 6U outperforms the Juggernaut by miles. The hitboxes suck-so much easier now to blow off a side torso, ya know where my heavy weapons are.

I bought both. Got the goodies. Spent some money. Hopefully the next round of legendaries is more thought out.

[Necroconvict]

I'll tell ya I don't like the Jug/Fafnir adjustment to armor, the sides just fall off so damned fast now. I know there's patches coming, but not fast enough. Sides are so big now. The center is so hard to hit by comparison.