64 replies to this topic

[denAirwalkerrr]

Louis Brofist, on 24 March 2023 - 09:35 AM, said:

MWO was on the brink of death just before corona. The reason the game made a comeback was COVID and lockdowns which gave people the time to get into all kinds of gaming. This gave the game a new fresh playerbase injection and as a result a greater momentum.

The resurgence of MWO predates the Gulag changes which actually drove longer term players away.

Tottaly not Chris axing every single playstyle he deemed fun to play until LRMs became better then anything that required more then clicking left mouse button in general enemy location to do damage.

I pretty much left game since 2019 until very recently because wow 6xSRM6a SMN? LPPCs are viable? Mechs got some agility back so they don't feel like cargo freighters? 3 new maps as FP rework? Solaris finally removed from existance? Damn crazy bad changes.

Edited by denAirwalkerrr, 24 March 2023 - 10:31 AM.

[Bennesto]

Louis Brofist, on 24 March 2023 - 09:35 AM, said:

MWO was on the brink of death just before corona. The reason the game made a comeback was COVID and lockdowns which gave people the time to get into all kinds of gaming. This gave the game a new fresh playerbase injection and as a result a greater momentum.

The resurgence of MWO predates the Gulag changes which actually drove longer term players away.

Wrong.

[Curccu]

RickySpanish, on 24 March 2023 - 09:17 AM, said:

LRMs are a low skill weapon often used by people who not only lack mechanical skill, but also the simplest level of map awareness that absolutely anyone, no matter their age or physical ability, should be able to pick up. They are a crutch for bad play and the people who want them to be more effective are the sort who absolutely refuse to improve their skill at the game.

I would dare to say I was pretty good at this game back in the day when I still cared about my performance and I think lurms could use some love or total rework how they work, which is not going to happen because coding.

And should I mention that my preferred lurming style isn't to sit behind the hill waiting for locks from others.

Edited by Curccu, 24 March 2023 - 12:22 PM.

[Thorqemada]

denAirwalkerrr, on 24 March 2023 - 01:27 AM, said:

Surely there was not a single time in MWO history when lock-ons were buffed three times in a row that resulted in massive playerbase growth due to how fun game became for everyone

Wow - what a remarkable display of factfinding...

Now we know why everything does not work bcs you people only know to scapegoat LRMs for all the trouble!

I until now was not aware how delusional you guys were but blaming some insignificant LRM changes for the downfall of MWO is beyond sane and the very statement of an incurable hate toward a Weapon System that - i give that to you - is balanced badly but instead of hating it the solution would have been to come up with a working balance solution.

I said the LRM problem is a boating problem and boating is prevented by limiting the amount of ammunition you can carry by weight or volume- it was never every tested or tried!

Instead you skillcrowd point and click instant conversion all damage to on location guys blame a weapon that can not be pointed and clicked, does not converge instantly if ever and sprays its damage all over the place and has the most counters of any weapon in all the game!

So, i did not further research it but the the big decline you blame LRM for came with a general rebalancing of pretty much everything inclusive a lock on nerve in regard to the time and target box that made lock ons for all people with weaker hardware and weaker pings almost impossible - xImpalerx did once a Video about it - also the game that had a quite well received balance at that point that gave acceptable match experiences to a broad player base of diverse weapon and weightclass loadouts was sudenly narrowed way down to direct instant damage weapons while also the infamous NPE Skill-Tree happened that was based on good intentions but executed in such an intimidating way that in result MWO suffered a huge loss of players!

Live your hate for LRMS out, write LRM on your punching back and punch it every day as long and hard you ever want but pls - do not take part in any balancing effort for this game, your hate blinds your judgement and will lead to displeasurable results!!!

Thx!

Edited by Thorqemada, 24 March 2023 - 12:55 PM.

[RockmachinE]

denAirwalkerrr, on 24 March 2023 - 10:15 AM, said:

Tottaly not Chris axing every single playstyle he deemed fun to play until LRMs became better then anything that required more then clicking left mouse button in general enemy location to do damage.

I pretty much left game since 2019 until very recently because wow 6xSRM6a SMN? LPPCs are viable? Mechs got some agility back so they don't feel like cargo freighters? 3 new maps as FP rework? Solaris finally removed from existance? Damn crazy bad changes.

Most of those have nothing to do with Gulag.

[The6thMessenger]

I don't think the lrm-complainer on the other thread speaks for the entire cauldron.

Pretty sure entitled ******* roam the different levels of play. Though granted, the ones in the comp have more credence and control, so yeah it's annoying. But if the other guy not getting what he wants, and has to complain here, means the cauldron is reasonable enough to not get overly zealous with making the game-balance only for the Comps.

[Heavy Money]

Cauldron is the reason you don't see several ERPPC/ATM Vapor Eagles every match. That alone is enough.

Remember before the Cauldron when the entire game was ruled by cERPPCs and UAC10's, with occasional IS MPL brawl?

[Novakaine]

Clan or IS, but mosly Clan Blue Flashlighters are the main problem nowadays.
I don't think the IS has a range equivalent even close.
Although I maybe mistaken of course I so rarely blue flashlight myself.
I do have some shreds of dignity.

[Heavy Money]

Novakaine, on 24 March 2023 - 03:37 PM, said:

Clan or IS, but mosly Clan Blue Flashlighters are the main problem nowadays.
I don't think the IS has a range equivalent even close.
Although I maybe mistaken of course I so rarely blue flashlight myself.
I do have some shreds of dignity.

IS ERLL are shorter range, but many of the mechs that are best with them have quirks. Stalker, Battlemaster, Zeus, and many more are perfectly competitive with cERLL. Stalker remains the best ERLL boat.

[Kotis77]

Its clear that this game is balanced for top players only. Which is kinda sad. How many are in tier 1? 10% or 15% of playerbase?

[Heavy Money]

the check engine light, on 24 March 2023 - 03:48 PM, said:

ERPPC Veagle is still good, though I switched mine to LPL and added a TC1. cLPL are very good.

Yeah its still a great mech with either. But it used to be spammed constantly and alternatives were much worse

Kotis77, on 24 March 2023 - 03:51 PM, said:

Its clear that this game is balanced for top players only. Which is kinda sad. How many are in tier 1? 10% or 15% of playerbase?

No it isn't.

[sycocys]

Kotis77, on 24 March 2023 - 03:51 PM, said:

Its clear that this game is balanced for top players only. Which is kinda sad. How many are in tier 1? 10% or 15% of playerbase?

Quarter of the way through tier 2 and according to jarl's in the top 8%, so I'd have to guess the number would be at least under or around 10% even with it still being more or less an xp bar.

[JediPanther]

Novakaine, on 24 March 2023 - 03:37 PM, said:

Clan or IS, but mosly Clan Blue Flashlighters are the main problem nowadays.
I don't think the IS has a range equivalent even close.
....

IS don't even come close range wise even with the best quirked range mechs out of the 170 or so mechs I have. I had the exact numbers some where a few pages earlier. Clan have give or take 2025m max range for er ll. IS at best around 1700m.

EditL the pages was in the data lrm nerf thread. not this one.

Edited by JediPanther, 24 March 2023 - 05:38 PM.

[Heavy Money]

JediPanther, on 24 March 2023 - 05:37 PM, said:

IS don't even come close range wise even with the best quirked range mechs out of the 170 or so mechs I have. I had the exact numbers some where a few pages earlier. Clan have give or take 2025m max range for er ll. IS at best around 1700m.

EditL the pages was in the data lrm nerf thread. not this one.

Now compare quirks and mounts of top Clan and IS ERLL boats. And remember that IS gets to alpha 3 at once and has lower duration. There's tradeoffs to both. IS ERLL is preferred in many situations. Stalker is still king. The range difference is only really relevant in Faction.

Clan Gauss+ERLL is the more powerful option than pure cERLL. For super long range, IS has very good ERLL and LGR+ERPPC. Its a good balance overall. Both sides have things that other doesn't, but are a bit different.

imo the mechs that are outliers are Night Gyr and Direwolf-C with Gauss+ERLL. They are just too efficient and have no real downsides.

Edited by Heavy Money, 24 March 2023 - 07:01 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Just because this thread is such a *****-complaint-fest, I'll say my piece as well:

I've always hated LRMs, because they are boring, and disdained extreme long range play ("blue flashlights", etc.) for the same reason. I like to brawl, but even I recognize that mid-range trading is less circumstantial, so, more often than not, that's what I will build for, for good or ill. But nowadays even mid range trading seems like a less than competitive way to play. I'm just tired of seeing match after match dominated by firing lines at extreme range. It's as if all matches, in QP mind you, are best played as if you are in a ranged drop deck on Boreal from back in the day of CW when more than a handful of people played it; and that's most matches, on most maps.

It just isn't much fun.

Yes, yes, I know some comp player will come in ant tell me how everything is potentially viable these days, but my reality is that more often than not, from what I see in game, is that the best chance at success is to stay back at 900 meters or more and trade with a few pixels on the other side of the map for roughly 8 minutes, until one team takes/suffers the balance of numbers and then you can move in, or the 3-4 man light/medium pack takes the decision out of your hands. This is the reality of most of my matches, on most maps, and its a toss up with my being irritated with the whole thing or simply being bored by it.

[confracto]

denAirwalkerrr, on 24 March 2023 - 01:35 AM, said:

Changes I posted above were made by a single person in PGI which resulted in 50% playerbase drop over course of 3 months, he's now lead balance designer for MW5 thankfully and will hopefully never touch MWO ever again

I remember that. The situation was highly unfair to Chris too, as he got asked to drop what he was doing on MW5 and deliver a MWO balance pass in a couple days after not even thinking about it for 2 years.

Also, I'm not saying it was good balance pass. It wasn't. I knew that before it went out, and I'm pretty sure Chris did too.

[Ihlrath]

Hasn't anyone told this guy that we're not allowed to criticize anything the Cauldron does? They are clearly much smarter than the rest of us and have a ton of data to back up all their changes... even though we've never been shown this data... they'd never skew the game to their prefered long range, high alpha, pin point damage style.... not at all. Never. Clearly that's not what we're seeing in 99% of matches the entire community is just making that up......

Edited by Ihlrath, 24 March 2023 - 09:28 PM.

[Heavy Money]

Ihlrath, on 24 March 2023 - 09:28 PM, said:

Hasn't anyone told this guy that we're not allowed to criticize anything the Cauldron does? They are clearly much smarter than the rest of us and have a ton of data to back up all their changes... even though we've never been shown this data... they'd never skew the game to their prefered long range, high alpha, pin point damage style.... not at all. Never. Clearly that's not what we're seeing in 99% of matches the entire community is just making that up......

They post data breakdowns from comp, and also will share snippets of data that PGI has given them (but won't publish or let them publish.) You can just go to their Discord server and ask them stuff.

Yall really need to decide if the problem is ERLL or Pinpoint. Or is it still Light Mechs like everyone was saying a couple months ago? What happened to complaining about Snubs? The best loadouts in QP, on average, are medium range. Laservomit, UAC dakka, etc.

Edited by Heavy Money, 24 March 2023 - 11:55 PM.

[denAirwalkerrr]

Ihlrath, on 24 March 2023 - 09:28 PM, said:

Hasn't anyone told this guy that we're not allowed to criticize anything the Cauldron does? They are clearly much smarter than the rest of us and have a ton of data to back up all their changes... even though we've never been shown this data... they'd never skew the game to their prefered long range, high alpha, pin point damage style.... not at all. Never. Clearly that's not what we're seeing in 99% of matches the entire community is just making that up......

Do you want mandatory rule that you can equip only 1 weapon of each type on the mech to deal with high alpha/pinpoint damage?

[denAirwalkerrr]

Heavy Money, on 24 March 2023 - 11:54 PM, said:

They post data breakdowns from comp, and also will share snippets of data that PGI has given them (but won't publish or let them publish.) You can just go to their Discord server and ask them stuff.

Yall really need to decide if the problem is ERLL or Pinpoint. Or is it still Light Mechs like everyone was saying a couple months ago? What happened to complaining about Snubs? The best loadouts in QP, on average, are medium range. Laservomit, UAC dakka, etc.

Nah bro I say they are just making balance for themselves so it must be true frfr

https://tenor.com/bRbvq.gif

Edited by denAirwalkerrr, 25 March 2023 - 12:08 AM.