44 replies to this topic

[PocketYoda]

Why are Direwolf Clan mechs so slow in this game.. their top speed in the tabletop is 54kph yet in MWO they cannot even go that speed.. what was the reasoning for such a nerf?

https://www.sarna.ne...re_Wolf_(Daishi)

Also do you think they should maybe fix this issue as its a pretty glaring mistake on the part of PGI?

Edited by PocketYoda, 01 May 2023 - 04:34 AM.

[martian]

PocketYoda, on 30 April 2023 - 12:23 AM, said:

Why are Direwolf Clan mechs so slow in this game..

They are as slow as any other 100-tonner that is equipped with the 300-rated engine.

PocketYoda, on 30 April 2023 - 12:23 AM, said:

their top speed in the tabletop is 54kph
https://www.sarna.ne...re_Wolf_(Daishi)

Actually, that 54 km/h is Daishi's top speed as written in the BattleTech fluff, i.e. irrelevant.

The actual tabletop top speed is five hexes. In theory it should be 4¹/₂ hexes (3x1.5), but since 'Mechs cannot move a half-hex, it is rounded up to five hexes for the gameplay purposes.

PocketYoda, on 30 April 2023 - 12:23 AM, said:

yet in MWO they cannot even go that speed.. what was the reasoning for such a nerf?

It is because in the MechWarrior Online 'Mechs can move a half hex, so to speak, and the Daishi's speed 48.6 km/h is perfectly legal here.

We could say that the MechWarrior Online is truer to the BattleTech rules than the BattleTech itself in this respect.

PocketYoda, on 30 April 2023 - 12:23 AM, said:

Also do you think they should maybe fix this issue as its a pretty glaring mistake on the part of PGI?

As I said above, there is nothing to fix here.



But I can give you one advice: Unlock speed nodes. Your Daishi will go 52.3 km/h, i.e. pretty close to its stated speed.

Edited by martian, 30 April 2023 - 02:46 AM.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

yeah.. speed-nodes on a dire..

just no

[PocketYoda]

Waste 13 nodes just to get it to its actual lore speed.. wow

[epikt]

I must confess, as a light/medium pilot I'm quite frustrated by assaults' speed and I speed tweak all my assaults.

[martian]

PocketYoda, on 30 April 2023 - 07:06 AM, said:

Waste 13 nodes just to get it to its actual lore speed.. wow

MechWarrior Online is not a simulator of the BattleTech (often nonsensical) lore.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

PocketYoda, on 30 April 2023 - 07:06 AM, said:

Waste 13 nodes just to get it to its actual lore speed.. wow

mwo =|= battletech tabletop.

you can either scratch your head about the speed and complain, invest(waste) into some "speed"nodes,
or realise that those are 2 different games, invest into something useful and just live with the dire's speed as is.

btw: I've NEVER, not even once, been in a situation where I wished for 6kph more speed in a dire. or kodiak.
or atlas, fafnir or whatever slow-as-f*ck-mech I was in.
going slow is going slow, nothing changes that. apart from taking a faster mech, ofc.


dires have other strengths. like killing stuff. work on that, and speed won't mattter.

[LordNothing]

i used to get speed tweak for dires, the extra 4.8 kph at least makes sure you are not the most distant assault from the front. i dont have to be fastest, i just have to be faster than the slowest. then i realized dires were really effective at killing lights (low arms seem to have an advantage here), and stopped doing it.

Edited by LordNothing, 30 April 2023 - 06:31 PM.

[Blood Rose]

martian, on 30 April 2023 - 02:04 AM, said:

They are as slow as any other 100-tonner that is equipped with the 300-rated engine.



Actually, that 54 km/h is Daishi's top speed as written in the BattleTech fluff, i.e. irrelevant.

The actual tabletop top speed is five hexes. In theory it should be 4¹/₂ hexes (3x1.5), but since 'Mechs cannot move a half-hex, it is rounded up to five hexes for the gameplay purposes.



It is because in the MechWarrior Online 'Mechs can move a half hex, so to speak, and the Daishi's speed 48.6 km/h is perfectly legal here.

We could say that the MechWarrior Online is truer to the BattleTech rules than the BattleTech itself in this respect.

Factually incorrect.
As listed, and as has been listed since day 1 of Battletech, the movement of an Assault fitted with a 300 rated engine is Cruise 32kph/run54kph. MWO is not "truer to the Battletech rules than Battletech", in this respect or any other. A Direwolf, Atlas, Fafnir, Kodiak, or any other 100 tonner with a 300 rated engine should have a top speed of 54kph. This is something anyone with even the most basic [female dog] knowledge of Battletech should know, provided they have taken a seconds glance at the construction rules, or just drawn comparison between engine sizes and speeds.
That said, you did call Battletechs fluff irrelevant, which is enough to tell me you know almost nothing and base pretty much everything you know on MWO, which is a hypothesis further supported by the rest of your post.

Actually, MWO is rather lore incorrect as far as Battletech goes. Mech scales are all over, terrain is vastly out of whack, SRM's should have a basic guidance system that allows for fire and forget, mech structure should not be something you can change out, LRM's should have a range of 1000 metres and be capable of effective IDF, not this nonsense we have right now, target information should not be shared beyond basic 'here is an enemy' for IDF purposes and possibly weight class, unless you have LOS yourself, C.A.S.E. should weigh .5 of a ton per unit, Ultra AC's should not be unjammable (although I play with the houserule that makes it possible), armour values should be half what they are, and weapons should not be insta pinpoint accurate but rather require time to converge on target. Oh, and mech speed should be fixed based off of engine rating/tonnage for walk, x1.5 for top speed.
But its not. Some of this is for balance, other bits are for cinematic purposes, influences from metawhiners, or just plain ignorance. Whatever the case though, MWO is not in any way lore accurate.
Thats off the top

[Vonbach]

Direwhales can move?

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Blood Rose, on 30 April 2023 - 12:45 PM, said:

Factually incorrect.
As listed, and as has been listed since day 1 of Battletech, the movement of an Assault fitted with a 300 rated engine is Cruise 32kph/run54kph. MWO is not "truer to the Battletech rules than Battletech", in this respect or any other. A Direwolf, Atlas, Fafnir, Kodiak, or any other 100 tonner with a 300 rated engine should have a top speed of 54kph. This is something anyone with even the most basic [female dog] knowledge of Battletech should know, provided they have taken a seconds glance at the construction rules, or just drawn comparison between engine sizes and speeds.
That said, you did call Battletechs fluff irrelevant, which is enough to tell me you know almost nothing and base pretty much everything you know on MWO, which is a hypothesis further supported by the rest of your post.

Actually, MWO is rather lore incorrect as far as Battletech goes. Mech scales are all over, terrain is vastly out of whack, SRM's should have a basic guidance system that allows for fire and forget, mech structure should not be something you can change out, LRM's should have a range of 1000 metres and be capable of effective IDF, not this nonsense we have right now, target information should not be shared beyond basic 'here is an enemy' for IDF purposes and possibly weight class, unless you have LOS yourself, C.A.S.E. should weigh .5 of a ton per unit, Ultra AC's should not be unjammable (although I play with the houserule that makes it possible), armour values should be half what they are, and weapons should not be insta pinpoint accurate but rather require time to converge on target. Oh, and mech speed should be fixed based off of engine rating/tonnage for walk, x1.5 for top speed.
But its not. Some of this is for balance, other bits are for cinematic purposes, influences from metawhiners, or just plain ignorance. Whatever the case though, MWO is not in any way lore accurate.
Thats off the top

well, if you're already taking the p1ss on him, YOU could at least get your rules-stuff right.
I mean: what's more embarassing than to call somebody out on sth and get it wrong, also

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 30 April 2023 - 01:22 PM.

[foamyesque]

MWO's speed is the correct one given the way movement works here. Tabletop fudged it because you can't move half-a-hex, so when you have a 3 walk speed mech it got 5 run speed instead of 4 to make the gameplay flow better (likewise, 5/8 mechs instead of 5/7), because running in TT imposes penalties that would not generally be worth it for just one more hex of movement.

Since the various Mechwarrior games, including MWO, operate on finer scales than the hex, the 'multiply by 1.5' rule conversion of walk to run speed can be accurately implemented. This brings everything with an odd walk speed in their TT designs into line with the ones with even walk speeds.

If you wanna complain about inaccuracies-to-tabletop relating to speed, a higher priority ought to be the fact that you don't need to take an engine that's an integer multiple of your tonnage in MWO (which MWO does because, again, MWO doesn't operate with hexes and so it doesn't need to have Engine Rating / Tonnage = an integer).

But I don't think that inaccuracy is really what's getting your goat, since you're complaining specifically about the Dire when the speed adjustment is exactly the same across the board for all the other 3/5 mechs, such as the classic Atlas, and also true (to a lesser extent) for all the 5/8s, etc, as well. This is just a 'I want my big blimp to go faster' whinge.

Edited by foamyesque, 01 May 2023 - 05:38 AM.

[Kanil]

foamyesque, on 30 April 2023 - 01:29 PM, said:

But I don't think that inaccuracy is really what's getting your goat, since you're complaining specifically about the Dire when the speed adjustment is exactly the same across the board the other 3/5 mechs, such as the classic Atlas, and also true (to a lesser extent) all the 5/8s, etc, as well. This is just a 'I want my big blimp to go faster' whinge.

Funny how people always seem to make these threads about the Dire Wolf and Timber Wolf, but never about the Jenner. What's up with that...?

[Gas Guzzler]

PocketYoda, on 30 April 2023 - 07:06 AM, said:

Waste 13 nodes just to get it to its actual lore speed.. wow

It's actual speed is the speed of a 100 tonner with a 300 engine in MWO.

It's not a nerf lol. What's sad is that this isn't the first time I've seen a thread about the "nerfed" Dire Wolf speed.

[crazytimes]

For far too long the Direwolf has been under performing because of this. This is why they are very rarely seen at any level of play, and definitely are never given out.

[LordNothing]

dires get a bad rep, but when im in a light, the out of place assault is ususally an anihilator or king crab. those mechs seem to attract bad players. especially the crab. they will put an xl engine in it and never upgrade it above 48kph. isxls in platforms < 60kph is somewhat suicidal. thing is a dire can pack significantly more firepower than the crab for the same speed. the anihilator can carry good firepower, but if you get caught by a squirrel, you are screwed. they can sit under your beer gut and shoot you in the **** until you are dead.

Edited by LordNothing, 30 April 2023 - 06:38 PM.

[PocketYoda]

martian, on 30 April 2023 - 07:28 AM, said:

MechWarrior Online is not a simulator of the BattleTech (often nonsensical) lore.

It should have been. at least in this case.

Edited by PocketYoda, 30 April 2023 - 08:45 PM.

[PocketYoda]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 30 April 2023 - 07:42 AM, said:

mwo =|= battletech tabletop.

you can either scratch your head about the speed and complain, invest(waste) into some "speed"nodes,
or realise that those are 2 different games, invest into something useful and just live with the dire's speed as is.

btw: I've NEVER, not even once, been in a situation where I wished for 6kph more speed in a dire. or kodiak.
or atlas, fafnir or whatever slow-as-f*ck-mech I was in.
going slow is going slow, nothing changes that. apart from taking a faster mech, ofc.


dires have other strengths. like killing stuff. work on that, and speed won't mattter.

Well Polar, Rubellite or Alpine.. Would like to have a word with you.. try keeping up with the team as a Direwhale in the 3-5 mins walk to the enemy in one.. its excruciating..

Alpine you are usually a massive target plodding along in the open at 48-52kph..

[martian]

Blood Rose, on 30 April 2023 - 12:45 PM, said:

Factually incorrect.
As listed, and as has been listed since day 1 of Battletech, the movement of an Assault fitted with a 300 rated engine is Cruise 32kph/run54kph. MWO is not "truer to the Battletech rules than Battletech", in this respect or any other. A Direwolf, Atlas, Fafnir, Kodiak, or any other 100 tonner with a 300 rated engine should have a top speed of 54kph. This is something anyone with even the most basic [female dog] knowledge of Battletech should know, provided they have taken a seconds glance at the construction rules, or just drawn comparison between engine sizes and speeds.

Actually, my original post is correct and I am posting the screenshot of the relevant formula taken right from the BattleTech rules - 'Mech design section:


Perhaps you could "glance at the construction rules" for yourself.

Almost forgot: According to the rules, 'Mechs are walking, not cruising. Vehicles are cruising ...

Blood Rose, on 30 April 2023 - 12:45 PM, said:

That said, you did call Battletechs fluff irrelevant, which is enough to tell me you know almost nothing and base pretty much everything you know on MWO, which is a hypothesis further supported by the rest of your post.

LOL

MechWarrior Online has never been a 1:1 simulator of the tabletop BattleTech rules ... and much less a 1:1 simulator of the BattleTech fluff.

Blood Rose, on 30 April 2023 - 12:45 PM, said:

Actually, MWO is rather lore incorrect as far as Battletech goes. Mech scales are all over, terrain is vastly out of whack, SRM's should have a basic guidance system that allows for fire and forget, mech structure should not be something you can change out, LRM's should have a range of 1000 metres and be capable of effective IDF, not this nonsense we have right now, target information should not be shared beyond basic 'here is an enemy' for IDF purposes and possibly weight class, unless you have LOS yourself, C.A.S.E. should weigh .5 of a ton per unit, Ultra AC's should not be unjammable (although I play with the houserule that makes it possible), armour values should be half what they are, and weapons should not be insta pinpoint accurate but rather require time to converge on target. Oh, and mech speed should be fixed based off of engine rating/tonnage for walk, x1.5 for top speed.
But its not. Some of this is for balance, other bits are for cinematic purposes, influences from metawhiners, or just plain ignorance. Whatever the case though, MWO is not in any way lore accurate.
Thats off the top

Sorry, but your complaints are about a decade late.

Nobody is going to rework the MechWarrior Online completely from the grounds up - definitely not in 2023.

[evil kerensky]

crazytimes, on 30 April 2023 - 06:03 PM, said:

For far too long the Direwolf has been under performing because of this. This is why they are very rarely seen at any level of play, and definitely are never given out.

this is so incorrect.

they gave the c out not too long ago, i know because i have it, and i dont buy clan mechs.

also, its seen at the higher teirs of quickplay quiet often, and fw on extreme range maps. the current meta is 5cerll, and 2 cgauss. fire 3 and 2 on the lasers, and gauss whenever. if you can keep your aim steady and you minmax the omnipod quirks, your looking at an 85dmg alpha from 8-900m away, with near hitscan gauss.

theres a reason we saw so many when they did clan only on hpg. i saw 12 at one time during that 8v8 event