96 replies to this topic

[Scout Derek]

Hitboxes are better tbh. It'll take some of you to learn longer than others, that's for sure. I give you... well, some of you, a year maybe more to get used to it.

[Heavy Money]

Necroconvict, on 14 May 2023 - 11:37 AM, said:

I love how it's a bunch of cocky people that think they're the best ever because they're not in T4 and T5. This change made it bad all over for Faf's nearly everyone knows it, and it's easy to toss shade. I don't think Cauldron members should be able to make comments on here without using some kind of Cauldron tag. It sucks. Side torso's can be hit from nearly all angles and just fall off. This well you can hit the center torso from 360 degrees makes me laugh. There's front, and rear armor for the sides, and the back. The way it is now, and clearly everyone is upset about the FRONT torso options... the center is a damned sliver barely able to be touched vs the sides. They already were like barns.. now they're bigger barns. with a toothpick between them.

Nobody from the Cauldron is in this thread. You're dismissing the opinion of one of the top dedicated assault players in the game because you don't like what you're hearing. Who is the cocky one?

The Fafnir is way better now if you take advantage of twisting and shielding. Its been worthless for years and finally people were able to twist PGI's arm into improving it a bit, and now people are whining about it. Incredible. And when experienced players bother to come inform them of the good news (that the Fafnir is significantly better if you take advantage of this buff) you get mad at them.

Pearls before swine.

[Necroconvict]

On the forums most people are upset about it, but the few are saying it's just lowbies that are T5's. That's the dismissal. But that is all good. Others saying.. oh it might take you a year to learn. I know many Faf pilots, who had no problems before...So good luck enjoy your broke *** mechs. I've been buying stuff, like others here.. I'm gonna slow that roll. Sure feels broken to a lot of us since that update. 2 camps that won't agree it sounds like. Maybe there needs to be a poll? Also possibly a second poll, to stop gearing so many things to snipers, the newest map, the designer said he aimed for sniping specifically, and cauldron seem to be buffing, and nerfing for snipes as well. It doesn't matter. I'm gonna go buy some bacon I think.

[PocketYoda]

Scout Derek, on 15 May 2023 - 08:34 PM, said:

Hitboxes are better tbh. It'll take some of you to learn longer than others, that's for sure. I give you... well, some of you, a year maybe more to get used to it.

Or more likely they will slowly fade away into obscurity in the lower tiers.. I've already seen chats saying the Fafnir is garbage now a few times in games.. I personally never really liked them myself and seldom play any of mine, even before the nerf patch. Waste of money now for me at least.

Edited by PocketYoda, 16 May 2023 - 06:54 AM.

[Heavy Money]

Necroconvict, on 16 May 2023 - 12:22 AM, said:

On the forums most people are upset about it, but the few are saying it's just lowbies that are T5's. That's the dismissal. But that is all good. Others saying.. oh it might take you a year to learn. I know many Faf pilots, who had no problems before...So good luck enjoy your broke *** mechs. I've been buying stuff, like others here.. I'm gonna slow that roll. Sure feels broken to a lot of us since that update. 2 camps that won't agree it sounds like. Maybe there needs to be a poll? Also possibly a second poll, to stop gearing so many things to snipers, the newest map, the designer said he aimed for sniping specifically, and cauldron seem to be buffing, and nerfing for snipes as well. It doesn't matter. I'm gonna go buy some bacon I think.

Its not a dismissal. Its very simple. If you use the twisting and shielding, its a buff. If you don't, its a nerf. If you and these other Faf pilots you know think its worse, it means you aren't twisting and shielding properly. You should start doing that. Once you do, it'll go much further than it ever could before.

The two camps don't agree because one is top players who are well informed and the other is people who fundamentally don't know how the game works, or what's going on. For example, you think things are geared towards snipers. Despite a year of buffs to non-snipers and multiple nerfs to snipers. And more nerfs to snipers coming in this next patch.

On the newest map the designer said he was aiming for sniping because previous maps were not, or had been and got reworked to not be. Different maps favor different playstyles. This isn't bias to a certain playstyle. And now the new map has been reworked too to be much worse for snipers. Which usually would show someone that the game isn't biased in favor of snipers, but you've already come to a conclusion based off nothing.

You think the game is stacked against you but you actually just don't know what's going on or why things are being done. And instead of finding out more, you're just pointing fingers.

[Scout Derek]

PocketYoda, on 16 May 2023 - 06:53 AM, said:

Or more likely they will slowly fade away into obscurity in the lower tiers.. I've already seen chats saying the Fafnir is garbage now a few times in games.. I personally never really liked them myself and seldom play any of mine, even before the nerf patch. Waste of money now for me at least.

And anyone that thinks that needs to learn the mech properly. Unfortunately, being a CT magnet was not a benefit to that mech, ever. At least now you can shield a side torso if needed, instead of just getting CT cored instantly and put down without any chance to fight back.

Not every mech is for everyone, that's always been a known fact. But not every change will make mechs bad, particularly with hitboxes in mind.

Again, being a CT magnet was never a plus, see the jenner for example. Is that enjoyable? No, I'd say not really. It ruins the chances of doing proper engagements. The Jenner though gets away by being more agile, faster, and more maneuverable (Jump Jets). The Fafnir, is not that agile nor will it ever be cbill variant wise.

[Necroconvict]

Scout Derek, on 16 May 2023 - 10:53 PM, said:

And anyone that thinks that needs to learn the mech properly. Unfortunately, being a CT magnet was not a benefit to that mech, ever. At least now you can shield a side torso if needed, instead of just getting CT cored instantly and put down without any chance to fight back.

Not every mech is for everyone, that's always been a known fact. But not every change will make mechs bad, particularly with hitboxes in mind.

Again, being a CT magnet was never a plus, see the jenner for example. Is that enjoyable? No, I'd say not really. It ruins the chances of doing proper engagements. The Jenner though gets away by being more agile, faster, and more maneuverable (Jump Jets). The Fafnir, is not that agile nor will it ever be cbill variant wise.

I think the only way people are getting CT'd right away is if they were standing still ,possibly on a hill or something. It was never a problem for myself, or my other Fafnir buddies. It's ok we'll park them. We already bought them, so we aren't the target.

[Horky]

I LOVE ANNIHILATORS, on 13 May 2023 - 05:47 PM, said:

You couldn't torso twist with the Fafnir before. The CT used to stick out from a side profile. It was like a long, protruding CT that could be hit from any angle no matter how much you twisted. I understand that in tier 4 and 5 when you stand still while 3 people shoot at you, it might get your sides shot more but your opinion doesn't matter because in tier 4 and 5 anything is viable since no one there knows what they're doing. This is also why it isn't wise to measure balance from that sect of the playerbase.

This doesn't matter. People still know where the torso is and where the firepower is. Doing a little to CT compared to doing EVERYTHING to RT or LT is huge. This doesn't pertain to any tier at all, the RT/LT are where a huge amount of firepower resides. The spread of now hitting any dispersing of CT/RT/LT is negligible because it will now completely plow into whatever side is turned instead of spreading it out.

The only difference now is that instead of doing damage to CT and a side torso you now just seen an entire side torso lost. Or losing heavily on both side torsos from the front.

Edited by Horky, 17 May 2023 - 12:16 AM.

[AnAnachronismAlive]

For PPFLD it does not matter as much, if you stand still (you often get yourself a headshot then anyhow) or move when big or bad hitboxes come into play. As was mentioned ... the hitbox-rework on the Fapnir is a general buff once you actively start twisting / shielding. No need to park them. While they may not be the most potent assaults around, there still are several decent variants / build-options available.

Derek talking about learning a mech taking some time, is likely implying that it generally is hard to break ol' habits of play (especially when they worked before) and learning the nuances of the plethora of available mechs / variants is a question of years. As you, most of us tend to be sceptical when things are changed, that somewhat worked out before, but lemme assure you that there are reasons one has not seen a lot - if any - Fafnirs in competitive play over the last couple of years.

So do not feel high-roaded, just because folks being incorporated in the current quirk-/ and mech-reworks tell you otherwise as long as it is based on elaborated feedback.

See you on the battlefield!

[Horky]

Scout Derek, on 16 May 2023 - 10:53 PM, said:

And anyone that thinks that needs to learn the mech properly. Unfortunately, being a CT magnet was not a benefit to that mech, ever. At least now you can shield a side torso if needed, instead of just getting CT cored instantly and put down without any chance to fight back.

Not every mech is for everyone, that's always been a known fact. But not every change will make mechs bad, particularly with hitboxes in mind.

Again, being a CT magnet was never a plus, see the jenner for example. Is that enjoyable? No, I'd say not really. It ruins the chances of doing proper engagements. The Jenner though gets away by being more agile, faster, and more maneuverable (Jump Jets). The Fafnir, is not that agile nor will it ever be cbill variant wise.

Going from CT magnet to RT/LT magnet has done nothing but encourage people to farm more. Gauss becomes that much more ineffective for precision kills. I guess this could be viewed as a good thing for the Fafnir pilot? Dunno. It might just apply where you super tough, super experienced players don't play.

Edited by Horky, 17 May 2023 - 12:28 AM.

[PocketYoda]

Scout Derek, on 16 May 2023 - 10:53 PM, said:

And anyone that thinks that needs to learn the mech properly. Unfortunately, being a CT magnet was not a benefit to that mech, ever. At least now you can shield a side torso if needed, instead of just getting CT cored instantly and put down without any chance to fight back.

Not every mech is for everyone, that's always been a known fact. But not every change will make mechs bad, particularly with hitboxes in mind.

Again, being a CT magnet was never a plus, see the jenner for example. Is that enjoyable? No, I'd say not really. It ruins the chances of doing proper engagements. The Jenner though gets away by being more agile, faster, and more maneuverable (Jump Jets). The Fafnir, is not that agile nor will it ever be cbill variant wise.

You lose your side torsos anyway and become a stick.. Being headshotted is better than being a useless stick.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

PocketYoda, on 17 May 2023 - 04:34 AM, said:

You lose your side torsos anyway and become a stick.. Being headshotted is better than being a useless stick.

so.. basically you're saying that 2sidetorsos are easier to shoot off that drilling through a single CT?
quite sure math doesn't agree with you here.

the new hitboxes are a buff. and yes, might take "a few" people to relearn that mech.
doesn't change that the buff is still a buff.

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 17 May 2023 - 10:14 AM.

[Battlemaster56]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 17 May 2023 - 10:11 AM, said:

so.. basically you're saying that 2sidetorsos are easier to shoot off that drilling through a single CT?
quite sure math doesn't agree with you here.

the new hitboxes are a buff. and yes, might take "a few" people to relearn that mech.
doesn't change that the buff is still a buff.

Oh it's a buff.
For me to get easier kills on Fafnir's and leave as sticks I just love watching them torso twist and "shield" it doesn't matter at all.

[Heavy Money]

Horky, on 17 May 2023 - 12:20 AM, said:

Going from CT magnet to RT/LT magnet has done nothing but encourage people to farm more. Gauss becomes that much more ineffective for precision kills. I guess this could be viewed as a good thing for the Fafnir pilot? Dunno. It might just apply where you super tough, super experienced players don't play.

You could already kill the side torsos easily before. You're arguing that now you just lose side torsos when before they just killed you. Okay! Sounds good to me!

[foamyesque]

Heavy Money, on 15 May 2023 - 09:16 PM, said:

The Fafnir is way better now if you take advantage of twisting and shielding.

Maybe, but I'm actually not sure. The expansion of the ST hitbox means it's now even harder to roll damage off the STs, which, given the Faf's geo, have always and will always be the easy targets. You basically want to be using the CT armour to try and keep your sides attached, but with the current hithoxes it's actually difficult to even intentionally get cored out.

[Wraith 1]

[Widowmaker1981]

This really doesnt make sense to me.. having a CT damage magnet is fairly obviously worse than easy to isolate STs.

I guess its a little 'unique' with how easy the STs are to isolate from the front but its not like stalkers, MAD-IIC, etc dont lose STS instantly and almost unavoidably if something gets a flank on them, and people dont cry rivers about that.

Were people just running XL Fafnirs a lot or something and are now mad that they lost loadout tonnage?

(Personally, i dont really play em at all - i just dont like mechs to be that wide)

[foamyesque]

Widowmaker1981, on 18 May 2023 - 02:19 AM, said:

This really doesnt make sense to me.. having a CT damage magnet is fairly obviously worse than easy to isolate STs.

I guess its a little 'unique' with how easy the STs are to isolate from the front but its not like stalkers, MAD-IIC, etc dont lose STS instantly and almost unavoidably if something gets a flank on them, and people dont cry rivers about that.

Were people just running XL Fafnirs a lot or something and are now mad that they lost loadout tonnage?

(Personally, i dont really play em at all - i just dont like mechs to be that wide)

I believe Fafnir's are one of the most common STD engine'd machines in the game, just because a lot of them are doing H. Gauss, and that requires fully free torsos. Or LBX20s, but I think that's a lot less frequent. Outside of that I can't imagine people are going beyond an LFE because, well, look at a Fafnir and those giant actual SHOOT HERE FOR MASSIVE DAMAGE side torsos, the only thing it's missing is a blinking red light and a quest marker.

At least XL Annihilators or Atlases have less obvious, and smaller, side torso geos.

Edited by foamyesque, 18 May 2023 - 12:58 PM.

[Scout Derek]

foamyesque, on 18 May 2023 - 12:57 PM, said:

I believe Fafnir's are one of the most common STD engine'd machines in the game, just because a lot of them are doing H. Gauss, and that requires fully free torsos. Or LBX20s, but I think that's a lot less frequent. Outside of that I can't imagine people are going beyond an LFE because, well, look at a Fafnir and those giant actual SHOOT HERE FOR MASSIVE DAMAGE side torsos, the only thing it's missing is a blinking red light and a quest marker.

At least XL Annihilators or Atlases have less obvious, and smaller, side torso geos.

You would be right, there's a reason why on Grimmechs we don't have a single XL fafnir build up available for use, and that's because it has, and never will be, XL safe, even before the changes it was danger.

[PocketYoda]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 17 May 2023 - 10:11 AM, said:

so.. basically you're saying that 2sidetorsos are easier to shoot off that drilling through a single CT?
quite sure math doesn't agree with you here.

the new hitboxes are a buff. and yes, might take "a few" people to relearn that mech.
doesn't change that the buff is still a buff.

Yes in lower tiers for sure one or two alphas is all i need to literally remove 50% of a Fafnirs weapons.. A core is a lot more trouble as my accuracy is not tier 1 good or its just not visible behind terrain.. sure i can aim for the torso and whittle it away or i can wipe 50% of its weapons in a second or two.. i go the latter in tier 3. Especially for those idiots using XL engines..

Edited by PocketYoda, 19 May 2023 - 08:22 PM.