121 replies to this topic

[Pixel Hunter]

sycocys, on 14 May 2023 - 06:59 AM, said:

The first few matter in every pvp game.

...When you can vomit a 70+ point laser alpha or 50 points of ppfld on a specific box, especially from longer ranges and on moving targets it makes a massive difference...

...Add esp/wall hacks to that and positioning/experience/awareness/fine tuned builds matter much less. Or intentional packet dropping/swapping to muddy up the server tracking a mechs position.

exactly, well said.

[LordNothing]

Haipyng, on 14 May 2023 - 06:33 AM, said:

People are verbalizing it way more. It is annoying. There is a report button and that is about the extent of it and it is unlikely they look at it seriously anyway unless they are getting dozens of reports. I shug it off and move on myself. I had a match where someone was ranting and accusing someone on my team of cheating earlier yesterday. It was not the first time I have heard of an anti-cheat engine being desired and I thought I would bring it up here.

im not sure if pgi has the ability to audit comms traffic. id like to think they do, but enough players have to put the flags up for them to even turn that on. its unfeasible to audit everything always, because of the storage requirements. report every instance, and let pgi determine if it was cheating. unfortunately i dont know if anyone on their side is doing that. periodic (and public) ban waves would at least show the community that something is being done.

i think pgi should really be more open about cheating. the name and shame policy can stay at least for individual reports, since an accusations without evidence can get out of hand. but its different when there is evidence and official sanctions have been levied.

Edited by LordNothing, 14 May 2023 - 09:22 PM.

[PocketYoda]

I'm not sure reporting people actually does anything?

Also there are hardware hacks these days you can actually buy stuff that runs separate to your pc that devs cannot ever stop.. And last time i linked it to prove i got banned so no way i'll do that again.

Edited by PocketYoda, 15 May 2023 - 03:59 AM.

[Haipyng]

Orion_, on 14 May 2023 - 05:21 PM, said:

My point is that you're a mid level player trying to blame cheating for your poor performance. The fact that you think a 1.5 KD is something that needs to be 'nursed' or is even suspect of cheating is proof of my point.

Instead of trying to learn from what others are doing and trying to improve your gameplay you want to blame your stagnant and poor performance on cheating. I'm not trying to 'shame' you, just making a point that you, understandably and unsurprisingly, wont accept.

You are confusing your thread whining about people crying about Hax, with this thread discussing anti-cheat engine viability for MWO. I am not complaining about cheats. If anything the complaints about them in game have gotten worse and it becomes annoying with chat roll from the opposing team and even more so when its on team voice comms. That is what started my search for them online and lead to some disturbing conclusions, they do in fact have a point.

Your contention here boils down to that cheating is not a problem and to borrow a term often repeated on here, "git gud". A moronic and completely empty assertion without anything helpful or insightful about it. Your vaunted K/D ratio as a means of measuring success means little in a team based game.

You, like many others view and play MWO as a deathmatch game where whoever gets the most kills wins. The easy ways to inflate that are play a conservative long range game, or you wait it out for the late stage game and come in all fresh to mop up the nearly finished enemy mechs. Only one of those does anything to help the team win the match and then that can gimp a team when the bulk of the team's assaults are in the back boating ranged weapons, leaving heavies and mediums alone in the skirmish line. What does it mean to land a kill in MWO most of the time? You landed the one shot that finished a mech. The team may have dealt 500 damage to that mech and your one ERLL shot did 10 and finished the mech. Big deal.

If that is your contention of success, good for you. I hope you enjoy it heartily. It shows a self centered mindset that does not improve the nature of a team based game. It also means less in a game with cheating going on as there is always doubt that it was come by honestly. That is not everyone's measure of success and you are mistaken to think it is in a team based game.

If you can come up with an actual contribution for the topic of this thread, why anti-cheat is good or bad beyond, "git gud", please enlighten us with your potent and dazzling insight. Otherwise keep the whine about crying about hax and the "you suck" and "git gud" allusions over there in your thread.

Edited by Haipyng, 15 May 2023 - 09:14 AM.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Haipyng, on 15 May 2023 - 05:25 AM, said:

You are confusing your thread whining about people crying about Hax, with this thread discussing anti-cheat engine viability for MWO. I am not complaining about cheats. If anything the complaints about them in game have gotten worse and it becomes annoying with chat rolls from the opposing team and gets worse when its on team voice comms. That is what started my search for them online and lead to some disturbing conclusions, they do in fact have a point.

Your contention here boils down to that cheating is not a problem and to borrow a term often repeated on here, "git gud". A moronic and completely empty assertion without anything helpful or insightful about it. Your vaunted K/D ratio as a means of measuring success means little in a team based game.

You, like many others view and play MWO as a deathmatch game where whoever gets the most kills wins. The easy ways to inflate that are play a conservative long range game, or you wait it out for the late stage game and come in all fresh to mop up the nearly finished enemy mechs. Only one of those does anything to help the team win the match and then that can gimp a team when the bulk of the team's assaults are in the back boating ranged weapons, leaving heavies and mediums alone in the skirmish line. What does it mean to land a kill in MWO most of the time? You landed the one shot that finished a mech. The team may have dealt 500 damage to that mech and your one ERLL shot did 10 and finished the mech. Big deal.

If that is your contention of success, good for you. I hope you enjoy it heartily. It shows a self centered mindset that does not improve the nature of a team based game. It also means less in a game with cheating going on as there is always doubt that it was come by honestly. That is not everyone's measure of success and you are mistaken to think it is in a team based game.

If you can come up with an actual contribution for the topic of this thread, why anti-cheat is good or bad beyond, "git gud", please enlighten us with your potent and dazzling insight. Otherwise keep the whine about crying about hax and the "you suck" and "git gud" allusions over there in your thread.

some short comments:
this game is old. there's _no_ way the dev will spend money on an anti-cheat-software NOW.
there is NO point about discussing doing so. might as well discuss a new graphics-engine.
or ppc-wielding-unicorns.


onto those who "hope" that QP will one day be teamplay based and those who do their best to "solo" things;

-the "solo-ist" accepts what QP is and is NOT, and tries his best to achieve what he can; be it quick kills, mass damage - or running a funbuild. he accepts that -his- performance (see how I don't write ANYTHING about a win here) is in his hands, and that's it.

-the guy who claims to be about teammplay; he's actually not interested in teammplay, cause that's what factionplay is for. but he's not interested in that.
instead, he's dropping in QP with whatever, hoping/betting that his "team" will keep him save, while he does everything he wants, without doing anything "the team" wants.
insert your typical idf-lrmer and/or sniperlord right here.
when he wants to do his fun stuff (looking at lights, brawling, or brawling in lights for example), he does so recklessly and afterwards blames his "team" for not covering his arse.
insert your yolo-flea or brawling-atlas "I'm going in... CHAAAARGE" here.
thinking the way he does, the same mentality is used when being outplayed;
it can't be that someone is actually good at this game, it is impossible that somebody read your pattern and knows when to alpha you next and so on.. no. it's gotta be a cheater.


now, here's the fun part:
get 4 of those "evil-egomaniacs" called soloists on 1 side and chances to win improve by quite a margin.
get 4 of those "ofc I'm a teamplayer.. now get me a lock, etc" people on 1 side, and a win is hard to get.



TL/DR:
"get gud" sounds offensive. I'd agree on that and won't tell that to anybody trying his best, or being new to this game.
otoh "getting good" as in "try to better yourself" is the ONLY way to .. errr.. get better?! at this game. or almost any other for that matter.
there's a HUGE difference between "trying your best" and "meh,I'll just blame it onto others" though, and since you started in 2016, you should know that by now.

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 15 May 2023 - 06:20 AM.

[Haipyng]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 15 May 2023 - 06:09 AM, said:

some short comments:
this game is old. there's _no_ way the dev will spend money on an anti-cheat-software NOW.
there is NO point about discussing doing so. might as well discuss a new graphics-engine.
or ppc-wielding-unicorns.

I don't doubt that. They may surprise us. The balancing passes while favoring ranged weapons have been welcome, the return to mech packs was also surprising, MWO was in maintenance mode. Adding an anti-cheat at this point wouldn't mean a huge lift, but most definitely would be an added expense. I'm just saying it adds some legitimacy and may tone down cheat accusations resulting in a better environment.

PPC wielding unicorns is a cool idea. It would mean the arrival of quadrupeds! Way harder than adding a boxed anti-cheat I would think, but still nice. Keeping to my brawling preference, snub PPCs please!

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 15 May 2023 - 06:09 AM, said:

onto those who "hope" that QP will one day be teamplay based and those who do their best to "solo" things;

-the "solo-ist" accepts what QP is and is NOT, and tries his best to achieve what he can; be it quick kills, mass damage - or running a funbuild. he accepts that -his- performance (see how I don't write ANYTHING about a win here) is in his hands, and that's it.

-the guy who claims to be about teammplay; he's actually not interested in teammplay, cause that's what factionplay is for. but he's not interested in that.
instead, he's dropping in QP with whatever, hoping/betting that his "team" will keep him save, while he does everything he wants, without doing anything "the team" wants.
insert your typical idf-lrmer and/or sniperlord right here.
when he wants to do his fun stuff (looking at lights, brawling, or brawling in lights for example), he does so recklessly and afterwards blames his "team" for not covering his arse.
insert your yolo-flea or brawling-atlas "I'm going in... CHAAAARGE" here.
thinking the way he does, the same mentality is used when being outplayed;
it can't be that someone is actually good at this game, it is impossible that somebody read your pattern and knows when to alpha you next and so on.. no. it's gotta be a cheater.


now, here's the fun part:
get 4 of those "evil-egomaniacs" called soloists on 1 side and chances to win improve by quite a margin.
get 4 of those "ofc I'm a teamplayer.. now get me a lock, etc" people on 1 side, and a win is hard to get.

There are as many play styles as there are players. I don't much care. To me, the best player is the shot caller that makes a group a team. For others that may be the long range camper. That however is neither here nor there in this thread and I only addressed it because mine was dredged up as some kind of qualifier and completely off topic.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 15 May 2023 - 06:09 AM, said:

TL/DR:
"get gud" sounds offensive. I'd agree on that and won't tell that to anybody trying his best, or being new to this game.
otoh "getting good" as in "try to better yourself" is the ONLY way to .. errr.. get better?! at this game. or almost any other for that matter.
there's a HUGE difference between "trying your best" and "meh,I'll just blame it onto others" though, and since you started in 2016, you should know that by now.

"Git Gud" is offensive. I will say it wasn't put in such direct rude terms, but the sentiment was exactly that. It's an attempt to shame. Its dismissive and elitist and contributes absolutely nothing by itself.

I started in 2011 on and off over the years. 2016 is when Jarl Stats came online. You can shake your head and say, 'wow you suck'. Make of that what you will.

If the subject was about being cheated in a game with a sub 300 damage range and ranting that everyone is cheating etc., you would have a point. That is not what this thread was about and so is just off topic. I never claimed to be a great player. My days of fast steady reflexes are over and after 4 major surgeries I'm in too much pain. I came to terms with that. That is the appeal for me in MWO, you don't need fast reflexes to contribute in a meaningful way.

Some relatively recent polling shows 57% of players admit to having used cheats. I do not believe MWO suffers from rampant cheating at all and their effects are limited, but they do make some difference. I do think it is at a higher level than ever and it is disturbing that folks looking to learn how to develop cheats think MWO is a great place to do it. That is just plain sad and likely why its rare to see a new game come out without some sort of anti-cheat engine paired to it. All I am saying it would be an improvement to tone down the cheat accusations and add legitimacy to good players.

Edited by Haipyng, 15 May 2023 - 09:01 AM.

[Haipyng]

LordNothing, on 14 May 2023 - 09:16 PM, said:

im not sure if pgi has the ability to audit comms traffic. id like to think they do, but enough players have to put the flags up for them to even turn that on. its unfeasible to audit everything always, because of the storage requirements. report every instance, and let pgi determine if it was cheating. unfortunately i dont know if anyone on their side is doing that. periodic (and public) ban waves would at least show the community that something is being done.

i think pgi should really be more open about cheating. the name and shame policy can stay at least for individual reports, since an accusations without evidence can get out of hand. but its different when there is evidence and official sanctions have been levied.

I agree. I totally understand why they don't want them discussed and named on the forums. Too much drama, may not be accurate, and its basically advertising the cheats. The prior blanket ban mentioning them just gaslighted people basically saying they don't exist or are not an issue. That is absolutely a problem, as it just helps hide it in plain sight.

Some games name and shame and I agree, its not a bad thing. After all, its just handles and account numbers. Some games have taken to trolling cheaters, changing it so they get next to no damage, or everyone can see them on the map. That is fine for deathmatch games, not so great for team based games.

A recent survey claims up to 57% of those admit to cheating in video games. 55% of those saying they kept it secret because it was perceived negatively (no kidding). The rest didn't answer. I don't think (or really hope) we don't have anything like that number in MWO.

Edited by Haipyng, 15 May 2023 - 09:08 AM.

[Mechwarrior2342356]

PocketYoda, on 15 May 2023 - 03:57 AM, said:

I'm not sure reporting people actually does anything?

Also there are hardware hacks these days you can actually buy stuff that runs separate to your pc that devs cannot ever stop.. And last time i linked it to prove i got banned so no way i'll do that again.

There's no way to know typically, beyond watching for a pink name on the forum. Assume they do nothing unless it's to you, and with the knowledge that typically the only way you'll ever know they do anything at all is when they're slapping you, decide how much you care. E.g., you don't cheat because you find the practice abhorrent and completely alien to the point of playing a game, or whatever you use to keep you on the straight and narrow.

Haipyng, on 15 May 2023 - 08:39 AM, said:

I agree. I totally understand why they don't want them discussed and named on the forums. Too much drama, may not be accurate, and its basically advertising the cheats. The prior blanket ban mentioning them just gaslighted people basically saying they don't exist or are not an issue. That is absolutely a problem, as it just helps hide it in plain sight.

Some games name and shame and I agree, its not a bad thing. After all, its just handles and account numbers. Some games have taken to trolling cheaters, changing it so they get next to no damage, or everyone can see them on the map. That is fine for deathmatch games, not so great for team based games.
A recent survey claims up to 57% of those admit to cheating in video games. 55% of those saying they kept it secret because it was perceived negatively (no kidding). The rest didn't answer. I don't think (or really hope) we don't have anything like that number in MWO.

The burden is being shifted in a team game - it's now a "you got a cheater on your team, tough **** guys" rather than "see this guy? Make him regret his life choices". Cheating in a team game is as harmful to the cheater's teammates as anyone. It's already a pernicious practice in your bog-standard DM, it becomes even more transgressive and harmful in this environment. That's almost certainly part of the appeal. Harming as many people's game time as humanly possible, and complete disregard for friend or foe - "everyone is my foe now". Betrayal for a dopamine hit, and using teammates as hostages.

Anyone who cheats and then has a cry to themselves about "others perceive it negatively q_q" is shifting a burden of "accept the patently unacceptable" onto those they inflict themselves upon.

Edited by the check engine light, 15 May 2023 - 09:07 AM.

[Haipyng]

PocketYoda, on 15 May 2023 - 03:57 AM, said:

I'm not sure reporting people actually does anything?

Also there are hardware hacks these days you can actually buy stuff that runs separate to your pc that devs cannot ever stop.. And last time i linked it to prove i got banned so no way i'll do that again.

I think they most likely don't look at them unless there are a bunch. I never bother with it as that side of MWO is never publicized so you just don't know if it works or not.

Hardware hacking is just a whole other level and yeah, likely nothing they can do with that.

[An6ryMan69]

Anyone feeling cheated, ever, isn't going to be happy, we all get it.

But honestly there are bigger fish to fry.

I'm 99% sure I died one time from a cheater who poptarted and headshot me with two alphas in a row in the cockpit, WHILE I WAS IN THE AIR JUMPING AND TWISTING MYSELF, in my PHX-1B. One jumper headshot on another twisting jumper I could see as a combination if skill and luck, but two back-to-back alpha strike headshots for the kill is absurdly impossible.

But....I honestly get way more frustrated with the state of quickplay matches (for example) than with the one time ever I got cheated on.

Just WAY bigger fish to fry, at least for a vanilla Tier 3 player like me.

Edited by An6ryMan69, 15 May 2023 - 01:00 PM.

[LordNothing]

Haipyng, on 15 May 2023 - 08:50 AM, said:

I think they most likely don't look at them unless there are a bunch. I never bother with it as that side of MWO is never publicized so you just don't know if it works or not.

Hardware hacking is just a whole other level and yeah, likely nothing they can do with that.

its actually very easy to detect if someone controlling the mouse is human or not. i rigged up mom's hulu box so she could control it with a single remote, using the numpad as a mouse. controlling the tv with a remote and presentation mouse was too confusing for her (especially with how fast the presentation mouse consumed batteries), so i rigged up something with an arduino, an ir sensor, and some jumpers so it can do remote pc start over ir and mouse emulation. enabling her to control both the pc and tv with a universal remote. mouse emulation uses fixed rate movement on set axes (including diagonals). the captcha system thinks that when the mouse moves in this way that she is in fact a bot. i spent an hour trying to log back in, until i remember a video i watched awhile back how captcha can analyze mouse movement. plug in a real mouse, try to log on and it let me through without question. if captcha can do it im sure games can too.

Edited by LordNothing, 15 May 2023 - 03:39 PM.

[PocketYoda]

Haipyng, on 15 May 2023 - 08:50 AM, said:

I think they most likely don't look at them unless there are a bunch. I never bother with it as that side of MWO is never publicized so you just don't know if it works or not.

Hardware hacking is just a whole other level and yeah, likely nothing they can do with that.

On a plus side this game is so old and such a small population i doubt many are going to spend the money on using hardware to hack this game so that is a plus and a minus.. Lets hope.

[Mechwarrior2342356]

An6ryMan69, on 15 May 2023 - 12:59 PM, said:

Anyone feeling cheated, ever, isn't going to be happy, we all get it.

But honestly there are bigger fish to fry.

I'm 99% sure I died one time from a cheater who poptarted and headshot me with two alphas in a row in the cockpit, WHILE I WAS IN THE AIR JUMPING AND TWISTING MYSELF, in my PHX-1B. One jumper headshot on another twisting jumper I could see as a combination if skill and luck, but two back-to-back alpha strike headshots for the kill is absurdly impossible.

But....I honestly get way more frustrated with the state of quickplay matches (for example) than with the one time ever I got cheated on.

Just WAY bigger fish to fry, at least for a vanilla Tier 3 player like me.

Well, don't worry, because neither of those things are ever getting looked at seriously anyway. Maybe it's resources. Maybe it's nobody giving a ****. End result = same.

Edited by the check engine light, 15 May 2023 - 09:25 PM.

[Haipyng]

An6ryMan69, on 15 May 2023 - 12:59 PM, said:

Anyone feeling cheated, ever, isn't going to be happy, we all get it.

But honestly there are bigger fish to fry.

I'm 99% sure I died one time from a cheater who poptarted and headshot me with two alphas in a row in the cockpit, WHILE I WAS IN THE AIR JUMPING AND TWISTING MYSELF, in my PHX-1B. One jumper headshot on another twisting jumper I could see as a combination if skill and luck, but two back-to-back alpha strike headshots for the kill is absurdly impossible.

But....I honestly get way more frustrated with the state of quickplay matches (for example) than with the one time ever I got cheated on.

Just WAY bigger fish to fry, at least for a vanilla Tier 3 player like me.

There are plenty that will gaslight you and dismiss what you describe as great skill, like they have. Without anything in the way of anti-cheats, who can say. The great thing about MWO is its near lack of a single shot/kill mechanic. The aimbot mechanic looks really strange when you are moving and you get shot with a long burn weapon and it tracks right with that hitbox, regardless of moving or twisting. With a projectile weapon, who knows. It's not like in other games that have a one shot one kill mechanic, that is just annoying.

There are many issues that just seem to be too big an issue to tackle, MM being of them. It's been a problem for years. Having seen the community rally for this or that over the years and nothing come of it, I'm not holding my breath. An anti-cheat addon I wouldn't think is a heavy lift to incorporate from what I read, unless the developer wants to incorporate advanced features, but really I am not a game developer, what do I know. At least if people say its needed maybe they will pay attention. Its happened before. Sometimes. Maybe.

LordNothing, on 15 May 2023 - 03:37 PM, said:

its actually very easy to detect if someone controlling the mouse is human or not. i rigged up mom's hulu box so she could control it with a single remote, using the numpad as a mouse. controlling the tv with a remote and presentation mouse was too confusing for her (especially with how fast the presentation mouse consumed batteries), so i rigged up something with an arduino, an ir sensor, and some jumpers so it can do remote pc start over ir and mouse emulation. enabling her to control both the pc and tv with a universal remote. mouse emulation uses fixed rate movement on set axes (including diagonals). the captcha system thinks that when the mouse moves in this way that she is in fact a bot. i spent an hour trying to log back in, until i remember a video i watched awhile back how captcha can analyze mouse movement. plug in a real mouse, try to log on and it let me through without question. if captcha can do it im sure games can too.

Huh! That kind of detection system must interfere with Macros then, something allowed in every other game I can think of. Interesting.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Haipyng, on 15 May 2023 - 08:24 AM, said:

I don't doubt that. They may surprise us. The balancing passes while favoring ranged weapons have been welcome, the return to mech packs was also surprising, MWO was in maintenance mode. Adding an anti-cheat at this point wouldn't mean a huge lift, but most definitely would be an added expense. I'm just saying it adds some legitimacy and may tone down cheat accusations resulting in a better environment.

PPC wielding unicorns is a cool idea. It would mean the arrival of quadrupeds! Way harder than adding a boxed anti-cheat I would think, but still nice. Keeping to my brawling preference, snub PPCs please!



There are as many play styles as there are players. I don't much care. To me, the best player is the shot caller that makes a group a team. For others that may be the long range camper. That however is neither here nor there in this thread and I only addressed it because mine was dredged up as some kind of qualifier and completely off topic.



"Git Gud" is offensive. I will say it wasn't put in such direct rude terms, but the sentiment was exactly that. It's an attempt to shame. Its dismissive and elitist and contributes absolutely nothing by itself.

I started in 2011 on and off over the years. 2016 is when Jarl Stats came online. You can shake your head and say, 'wow you suck'. Make of that what you will.

If the subject was about being cheated in a game with a sub 300 damage range and ranting that everyone is cheating etc., you would have a point. That is not what this thread was about and so is just off topic. I never claimed to be a great player. My days of fast steady reflexes are over and after 4 major surgeries I'm in too much pain. I came to terms with that. That is the appeal for me in MWO, you don't need fast reflexes to contribute in a meaningful way.

Some relatively recent polling shows 57% of players admit to having used cheats. I do not believe MWO suffers from rampant cheating at all and their effects are limited, but they do make some difference. I do think it is at a higher level than ever and it is disturbing that folks looking to learn how to develop cheats think MWO is a great place to do it. That is just plain sad and likely why its rare to see a new game come out without some sort of anti-cheat engine paired to it. All I am saying it would be an improvement to tone down the cheat accusations and add legitimacy to good players.

first off: nice that we can have this as an functional and objective discussion.
what would really (no sarcasm or hidden agenda here) interest me:
that poll with 57% cheats.. got a link to that?
cause I seriously can't believe in that.

in my years of mwo (2016?+), I've seen 2 (in words: two) situations where there MIGHT have been a cheat, and that's in several thousand games. also, knowing quite a few people ingame back then, I'd stake my mechlife on it that none of those cheated.

outside of cash-heavy tournaments, there's really NO point to cheat in the first place and risk a ban. and mwo and tournament prices... srsly^^

back onto topic: a link to that poll would be great

[Haipyng]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 16 May 2023 - 06:28 AM, said:

first off: nice that we can have this as an functional and objective discussion.
what would really (no sarcasm or hidden agenda here) interest me:
that poll with 57% cheats.. got a link to that?
cause I seriously can't believe in that.

in my years of mwo (2016?+), I've seen 2 (in words: two) situations where there MIGHT have been a cheat, and that's in several thousand games. also, knowing quite a few people ingame back then, I'd stake my mechlife on it that none of those cheated.

outside of cash-heavy tournaments, there's really NO point to cheat in the first place and risk a ban. and mwo and tournament prices... srsly^^

back onto topic: a link to that poll would be great

Think about it, how often are you watching where other mechs are being shot if they are on your team? I only notice it from long burning energy weapons when I'm targeted and I am moving 3/4 sideways to the shooter and the laser just sticks with that spot. It looks artificially still. That's a pretty rare scenario. I have seen the multiple gauss hits to a side torso plenty while moving and twisting, but I can't say if that is a cheat or just great skill. There is no visual cue. Also people usually go after targets of opportunity so they tend to move on to other targets when you get to cover. Really Aimbot is not a huge thing early in a match in MWO. Its terrible at the end where every point counts.

The ESP thing is what gets me. Stealth mech, moving in an out of the way place, no UAV, no jamming in place, working your way around and the moment you crest to look for a target, you get shot. Skill, ESP, repeated luck, who can say for sure.

MWO has a culture of instead of acknowledging it as a thing, people immediately brush it off as a sour grapes. I've see the low damage crying about everyone cheating and I agree, its annoying. Not everyone cheats, but it does exist. Gaslighting them and saying it doesn't does no one any good, except the cheaters. Combine that with the former moratorium of any mention of the word cheat getting rapidly deleted makes it seem like a complete non-issue.

Yes, the link was in my reply to LordNothing. Not a scientific study by any means, and it does not break it down if that is just single player games or multiplayer video games:

Haipyng, on 15 May 2023 - 08:39 AM, said:

A recent survey claims up to 57% of those admit to cheating in video games. 55% of those saying they kept it secret because it was perceived negatively (no kidding). The rest didn't answer. I don't think (or really hope) we don't have anything like that number in MWO.

I did a bit more reading and it seems there whole culture thing on cheating in online video games. The reasons are many from everyone does it to basically trolling other players. It doesn't require a big reward to do it. https://www.theguard...ing-video-games

Edited by Haipyng, 16 May 2023 - 07:47 AM.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

hm. @onto that article:

I get it, but it's imo not related to mwo. at all.
we have a very different democraphic playing this game than say CoD, Apex etc.
it's mostly mechdads and granddads here, and I'd estimate a 40+ and more on the average age.
we're "beyond" that age of ~12-16 where cheating in a MEANINGLESS online-game
just to better our stats and thereby boosting our brittle, little egos, is a thing.
at least the vast majority, imHo.

back onto mwo; no, I can't say I've witnessed shots that I've identified as cheating, in all my mwo-time.
I'm quite far from being the worst pilot, but also there are several worlds between me and the best shots ingame.
and yes, I've seen amazing shots.
some of them boil down to luck, most of them, however, boil down to training&skill,
in combination with a lack of training&skill on the other side.
how do I know that? trained with a quite a few of those good shots, and trained a lot of beginners myself.
and it's "hard work" (in a gaming-sense of work; you know what I mean).
but yes: it IS possible to better yourself at this game; to a point where the "we're here to open a few beers and have fun"-crew feels like being cheated.
the same as a beginner in chess might feel against somebody at masters level, for example.
or your smalltown-hobby-team against any professional sportsteam, in ANY sport.


but: the moment you start seeing cheats everywhere is the point where it all goes downhill.
sometimes, you've bad luck. sometime, you're being outplayed/skilled.
these, are facts (and happen to 95%+ folks, too).
now, you can look for your mistakes and train them away, or you can blindly blame the opposition.
doing so is (imo) quite offensive, as most of these folks spent a LOT of time to better themselves;
hackusations look a lot like a combination of envy&laziness, from that PoV, tbh.


if you're convinced you're being cheated: record matches from now-on. every single graphiccard you use these days is capable of recording&playing at the same time. then rewatch matches and/or send them in to pgi.
a cheater should get banned, no argument there.
calling everybody halfway decent at this game a cheat however.. it's wrong in so many ways.

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 16 May 2023 - 08:10 AM.

[ArchaneBill]

How about i refuse to ever send you MY ACTUAL MONEY again until you not only stop the cheaters, but can PROVE IT. 10 years is too long NOT to address this issue.
I am actually rather offended that you seem to think it correct to make the shrinking userbase provide evidence to ban an account.. on a free game... WHY? DUMB! FIX YOUR CODE or be honest and say it will never happen and quit trying to get money to play in your sandbox full of dog poop.

[Haipyng]

No it most definitely was not about MWO directly. I didn't mean to say it was, but simply a poll about cheating in video games in general. It was meant to show an attitude toward cheating in general.

Absolutely no doubt on the demographic. If you came from the table top you are definitely in the over 40 demographic with a bit of the MW 1 and 2 Sim thrown in.

I also have no doubt there are some folks that are just super skilled at the game. More power to them. I tend to get super impressed by coordinated team play or when I get out maneuvered and hit from somewhere unexpected. Smart gameplay, rather than raw racking up kills. There is plenty of that.

I really don't think anyone would have much luck recording their own game play to prove cheating. Sure it may look suspicious, but what does it really prove? It's limited information from a single point of view. Plenty of those videos out there for MWO already. In the great scheme of things I don't go crazy with it. I sigh and move on. I'm not investing my down time recording videos to edit, upload and report on for something the support guys may or may not look at for cheating. Looking at logs for cheating has to be as much fun as reviewing system logs for intrusions. Like watching paint dry. As it is now reports go off into the ether, to never be heard from again. Its simply a wall of silence. Do they, or don't they? Who knows.

Which brings me full circle, stick an anti-cheat on the game and do a monthly report, "X accounts banned for cheating in April 2023". Even better name and shame. Show MWO is not the place to train on making cheats. Then when someone cries hax, we can say, "maybe, but"... and point to the anti-cheat and the bans notice. At least then it looks like something is done to take care of the issue even if it doesn't resolve it completely (nothing will). That is about all that can be done in any game. Then the cheaters will be more likely be on smurf accounts not wanting to risk mains they invested tons of time/money and rep in.

[Meep Meep]

After taking a few dozens alts from tier 5 to tier 1 I can say that once you cross over into tier 2 the aim of 'certain' players takes a massive jump up in effectiveness. Gauss is almost impossible to tell but when you are masc zagging full out at 177kph in a flea with constant variations in both horizontal and vertical movement and twisting your torso like mad yet some gaussbot cores you clean with a full alpha ct hit from the other side of them map then they immediately drop some snarky comment.

Well...

Same with er large vomit. I can tell when a human is aiming even one with very good aim because the beam will waver if only just a tiny bit as it tracks you. Yet same flea going full out gets ct cored ~perfectly~ with the beam locked onto the mech. Not a drop of laser wash. Those are the two I have the most experience with in the average pub match ~after~ I break into tier 2.

I think what needs to be done that would work or at least limit the bot effectiveness is increase er large laser duration by at least 0.3 seconds and reduce gauss velocity. Gauss is preferred by the botters because its an almost invisible shot and with the super high velocity it makes scoring aim assisted shots a breeze. Laser vomit seems less used because you can see the beam lock on but its still there. Typically when I notice it and check the name on jarls its some solo quick play mystery player no one knows with no unit or forum presence with ~incredibly~ good stats.

Saying that it isn't particularly common but when it happens you ~know~ it.