55 replies to this topic

[Strelok7]

kalashnikity, on 28 May 2023 - 10:10 PM, said:

It's long past time for a 20 ton mech that can jump.
<p>
Based on the pattern of other mechs I'd like to offer some lore friendly configurations, obviously the leg mounted missile launcher would be moved to the torso.
<p>
To make it viable, some quirks would be added and maybe a hardpoint multiplier, like two energy or two missile hardpoints instead of one.
<p>
Here are some suggested lore friendly variants and buffs, to make the firepower on par with the Locust.
<p>
WSP-1A (1) right arm energy, (2) left torso missile (1) ct missile. (cooldown buff and missile range buff)
<p>
WSP-1K (2) right arm energy, (4) left torso ballistic, (cooldown and MG rate buff).
<p>
WSP-1W (6) energy hard points (LT, RT, RA) (heat buff)
<p>
WSP-3L stealth armor, (2) energy right arm, (2) missile right torso. (seismic and range buff)
<p>
WSP-3S ECM, (2) energy right arm, (2) energy left torso. (extra consumables and range buff)

Link external website for concept pics, *if you got em.

[SafeScanner]

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hermit_Crab

20t Hermit crab anyone, the crab family should be complete!

[Meep Meep]

D A T A, on 29 May 2023 - 10:32 AM, said:

"hey, why don't we add more cancer to this game?"

no tx

But then you couldn't make clickbait videos showing you farming tier 3 potats in them right?

[epikt]

Weeny Machine, on 29 May 2023 - 09:31 AM, said:

I am not sure if the server or whatever is also to blame. I haven't played for nearly 1.5 years and when I came back I was surprised how many shots suddenly registered on the back instead of the front or side. I mean, it happened always that a shot from a weird angle passed through and registered on the back but not that often as "nowadays".

It's a known issue. If I understood correctly, sometimes fast projectiles like PPC and gauss pass through the front armor hitbox and hit the rear...

[confracto]

kalashnikity, on 28 May 2023 - 10:10 PM, said:

It's long past time for a 20 ton mech that can jump.
<p>
Based on the pattern of other mechs I'd like to offer some lore friendly configurations, obviously the leg mounted missile launcher would be moved to the torso.
<p>
To make it viable, some quirks would be added and maybe a hardpoint multiplier, like two energy or two missile hardpoints instead of one.
<p>
Here are some suggested lore friendly variants and buffs, to make the firepower on par with the Locust.
<p>
WSP-1A (1) right arm energy, (2) left torso missile (1) ct missile. (cooldown buff and missile range buff)
<p>
WSP-1K (2) right arm energy, (4) left torso ballistic, (cooldown and MG rate buff).
<p>
WSP-1W (6) energy hard points (LT, RT, RA) (heat buff)
<p>
WSP-3L stealth armor, (2) energy right arm, (2) missile right torso. (seismic and range buff)
<p>
WSP-3S ECM, (2) energy right arm, (2) energy left torso. (extra consumables and range buff)

I was part of the 'mech selection group' at PGI for almost all my time there. I spent over 3 years straight pitching a Wasp/Stinger pack. Sharing resources would make it easier to get both/either, a thing I proved later by proposing and then modeling the charger/hatamoto-chi. I'll admit to only skimming the comments after the first couple of posts, but everything I saw was the same arguments and considerations I'd brought to the table on day one, both the good and the bad. I never saw anything to suggest there was a good argument against them apart from one obvious fact: Lights don't sell as well.

So please understand that the Wasp was advocated for, and quite a bit more strongly than many other 'Mechs. I'm not saying you should stop pushing for it (I'm right there with you), but that you also recognize how dead this horse you're kicking is.

[epikt]

confracto, on 29 May 2023 - 05:51 PM, said:

I was part of the 'mech selection group' at PGI for almost all my time there. I spent over 3 years straight pitching a Wasp/Stinger pack.

As a Wasp and Stinger enthusiast, I appreciate your efforts! <3

[confracto]

epikt, on 29 May 2023 - 05:55 PM, said:

As a Wasp and Stinger enthusiast, I appreciate your efforts! <3

The Stinger was the first Battlemech I ever played with, way back in '89.

[Widowmaker1981]

JediPanther, on 29 May 2023 - 06:38 AM, said:

You mean 35 ton mechs. The 20 tons mechs are far superior to 35 ton mechs. fle/lcts out class nearly every other light in the game.

I wonder why that is... Maybe its because they are scaled as if they are 4 ton mechs instead of 20 ton?

https://i.imgur.com/OiRfBWn.jpeg

People complain the 35 tonners are too large, but they are actually much closer to the correct scale than the 20 tonners. Running around like a squirrel on crack in LOS to multiple enemies should not be a viable playstyle, imo.

[PocketYoda]

JediPanther, on 29 May 2023 - 06:38 AM, said:

You mean 35 ton mechs. The 20 tons mechs are far superior to 35 ton mechs. fle/lcts out class nearly every other light in the game. The only thing urbs have going for them is their medium mech class armor. The rvn's only savior is the ECM/Stealth. As for Jenners having jump jets and a missile quirk doesn't make them better.

Which light was the newest one to get a must nerf thread? That's how you tell which light is "outperforming" for its weight class and shall be nerf nuked next.

What i mean is one 20ton mech does pretty much exactly the same as another 20ton mech.. while adding very little to the team 90% of the time.. run into the enemy team and pop an odd UAV then dies or runs off at the start to i honestly have no idea poke at the enemy team all game with that one er large or 5 machine guns? or hides for 7 mins after their team has died..

You can do all that already in the current 20ton mechs..

Edited by PocketYoda, 30 May 2023 - 05:01 AM.

[RickySpanish]

JediPanther, on 29 May 2023 - 06:38 AM, said:

You mean 35 ton mechs. The 20 tons mechs are far superior to 35 ton mechs. fle/lcts out class nearly every other light in the game. The only thing urbs have going for them is their medium mech class armor. The rvn's only savior is the ECM/Stealth. As for Jenners having jump jets and a missile quirk doesn't make them better.

Which light was the newest one to get a must nerf thread? That's how you tell which light is &quot;outperforming&quot; for its weight class and shall be nerf nuked next.

20 is too little, you sacrifice too much. 30-35 tons is the sweet spot for Lights, where the proper heavy hitters like the Incubus and Urbie reside. Not to mention the Jenner IIC...

[Storky]

Widowmaker1981, on 30 May 2023 - 04:24 AM, said:

I wonder why that is... Maybe its because they are scaled as if they are 4 ton mechs instead of 20 ton?

https://i.imgur.com/OiRfBWn.jpeg

People complain the 35 tonners are too large, but they are actually much closer to the correct scale than the 20 tonners. Running around like a squirrel on crack in LOS to multiple enemies should not be a viable playstyle, imo.

I appretiate this balance invention of PGI, where size does not matter. But at mechs below 30tons it is broken

[Weeny Machine]

SafeScanner, on 29 May 2023 - 11:45 AM, said:

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hermit_Crab

20t Hermit crab anyone, the crab family should be complete!

The lowest arm E mounts in the whole game...

Storky, on 30 May 2023 - 06:00 AM, said:

I appretiate this balance invention of PGI, where size does not matter. But at mechs below 30tons it is broken

...and the 35t mechs are too easy to hit. Take a Jenner IIC, it is ridiculously large. Not that the others are better

Edited by Weeny Machine, 30 May 2023 - 07:18 AM.

[Duke Falcon]

D A T A, on 29 May 2023 - 10:32 AM, said:

"hey, why don't we add more cancer to this game?"

no tx

Seriously, WHAT is your problem? You shun LRMs, you shun lights...
C'mon, dude! THIS is a battletech-based game! And - surprise - BT has and extensively use both light mechs AND lurms...
Deal with it maybe?
Why?
Because you not seen the dark side of BT so far! Battle armours, protomechs, Arrow-IV just to mention a few (or Gauss-carrier helos!)...
Come on, old DATA! Lights and Lurms are not that bad! Not cancer but some easy cold...

If we talk about lights: Valkyrie and Firemoth!

[kalashnikity]

the check engine light, on 29 May 2023 - 12:20 AM, said:

The JJs for a 20t are still .5t each. It's going to be tonnage starved, will likely have a profile like a smaller Incubus without the high mounts. I'm not certain why you'd take it over a Javelin?

This is not a problem for three reasons.

First- you only need one Jump Jet on a 20 ton for most jumps (some WASP have 6 JJ!).

Second, ECM weighs 1.5 tons (=three jump jets!), yet there are still plenty of viable builds for the Pirate's Bane and Fle-20

Thrid- any issues with performance can be massaged using quirks. A MG ROF and 2x ammo quirk can easily double the equivalent amount of machine guns. Same with cooldown quirks for energy. The different Locust quirks and spider 5v are a good example of just how much difference a quirk can make. e.g. Spider 5v with a single LPL is a very viable damage dealer. Same with locust 3V, built a single CT SN-PPC it's a brutal mech and frankly has plenty of tonnage left over for a jump jet, or two (using an XL engine you can have 1 ton left over after shaving armor appropriately).

[kalashnikity]

Meep Meep, on 29 May 2023 - 12:24 AM, said:

You can 'cheat' on the .5 tons by removing armor and replacing it with weightless quirk armor or structure. Any 20 tonner with a jj wedged in is going to have to be heavily quirked.

No more quirked than any of the locust mechs already have.

Or the Urban Mech, it's got~ 3 tons of armor added!

[kalashnikity]

the check engine light, on 29 May 2023 - 12:30 AM, said:

They could probably do something to make it work.




Sort of surprised the Fire Falcon isn't getting suggested anywhere that I've seen, but that's Clan anyway.

There... aren't many 20-25t mechs on Sarna. The Hornet would be hilariously terrible, if they could even make it work.

I looked the Hornet too (it has fewer variations than the Wasp, that's why I went with Wasp), I spent quite a while on SARNA to make this post, looked at every 20 ton mech that had Jump Jets and all their variants (even the Fle-14, but it only has one laser in an arm).

[kalashnikity]

Wraith 1, on 29 May 2023 - 11:30 AM, said:

Stinger and Wasp have been my most wanted mechs for a long time. Even if they didn't measure up to the performance of the Flea or Piranha, it'd be a lot of fun to jump around in such a small mech. It's really irritating me that there's only one sub-30T mech with jump jets, and nothing at 20T.

It'd be a great idea for PGI too, as creating the art assets for one would likely require only slight modification to create the other. Things like accel/decel, torso twist range, engine cap, etc. could also be similar if not identical between the two chassis.

It's hard to tell what builds they could have without knowing engine cap/hardpoint inflation/quirks, but there are definitely a few things that I could see working for the given tonnage.
WSP-1W
STG-3P

Wasp has a better variety of hardpoints, allowing MG, missile, and energy based builds, plus stealth and ECM variants with multiple build possibilities.

[kalashnikity]

confracto, on 29 May 2023 - 05:51 PM, said:

I was part of the 'mech selection group' at PGI for almost all my time there. I spent over 3 years straight pitching a Wasp/Stinger pack. Sharing resources would make it easier to get both/either, a thing I proved later by proposing and then modeling the charger/hatamoto-chi. I'll admit to only skimming the comments after the first couple of posts, but everything I saw was the same arguments and considerations I'd brought to the table on day one, both the good and the bad. I never saw anything to suggest there was a good argument against them apart from one obvious fact: Lights don't sell as well.

So please understand that the Wasp was advocated for, and quite a bit more strongly than many other 'Mechs. I'm not saying you should stop pushing for it (I'm right there with you), but that you also recognize how dead this horse you're kicking is.

That's great, and thank you for your service!

If PGI brings out a WASP I will bring out my credit card.

[Widowmaker1981]

Weeny Machine, on 30 May 2023 - 07:16 AM, said:

...and the 35t mechs are too easy to hit. Take a Jenner IIC, it is ridiculously large. Not that the others are better

Its more that 35 tonners are about the right size and the others are smaller than they should be.

https://imgur.com/qK1aPLr

That doesnt seem too far off for double the mass, if you give the Jenner the benefit of the doubt and assume smaller mechs are slightly more dense.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 30 May 2023 - 10:42 AM.

[SafeScanner]

Admit it you all love light mechs, if they are not shooting you they are shooting that damn 20T of pure joy..