19 replies to this topic

[Risen Trash]

Start with the overall state of hit reg.

Anyone dependent on ballistic models right now will tell you hit reg is in a bad place. When its on, I know it. It's what you would think happens when you put 30pts of PPD into an open orange ST. I'm also pretty reasonable about my capabilities: When I'm off, I know that too. Most of the time I'm mad in this game, it's not my teammates. I'm mad at myself for missing shots I know I can make. But beyond that, there are times when I've traded with a light and had >100 points of damage sponged up, only to have a teammate trot in with a couple of MLs and sit them down.

What I'm talking about is beyond the armor we're now ok with lights and mediums heaping on (but I'm not letting you off that easy see below). I feel like I get the red pip indicating a hit, but I don't get anywhere near the damage I'm supposed to be inflicting. Sometimes my damage number at the end doesn't add up. When you run nothing but a pair of GR, you get good at counting your hits and misses and noting your range. Maximizing your return on ammo consumption is essential. Sometimes, the numbers at the end seem off.

It might be the same for other ballistics. I know I've taken some pretty weak showers of RAC fire; it wouldn't surprise me to find only one out of every four bullets register at all. People used to say you shouldn't group-fire PPCs because hits after the first don't always register. I don't know if that's still a thing. Hits may not be registering for LRM-boaters, either. You'll have to take their word for it. Not a lot of complaints from hitscanners, it seems.

Bunk hit reg punishes the gauss build especially. Nowhere else is so much damage locked up in an in-game asset that has to move down range and connect with it's target. It's at best an all-or-nothing affair, and if something goes wrong along that 3-part event, and as a result of bad game architecture the "all" isn't registering, the gauss-build finds itself faced with an infuriating "nothing-or-nothing" affair.

Every armor quirk is another gauss nerf.

Gauss weapons are unique in this game in that their faculty does not directly derive from their DPS. The above mentioned "all or nothing" proposition of so much PPD per cycle at range can be more beneficial to a distance trade with a sloppy-handed Clan laser-boat, for example, even if on paper they're generating more DPS. Laser alpha is easily twisted over several hitboxes, and What happens to that LL-boat alpha when its ST is gone? Then there are the smaller mechs. Lights and smaller mediums trade armor and firepower for size and speed, and some of these quirks reduce a lot of the downside of that tradeoff. I feel that the armor quirks hurt gauss builds especially because they cannot put up the big alphas that other weapons can. They *have* to knock off a laser-boat's ST or they will be out DPS'd every time. They *have* to lead and connect with that Urbie --the one you sometimes miss with hitscan-- or it will run circles around you and tear you apart.

The difference between needing 3 hits to take down an enemy and needing 5 is no where else in this game so acute a disadvantage. When you give these targets buffs to their armor/structure, the gauss-build must work harder than any other build to win. As it is with crummy hit reg, so do armor quirks turn a gauss-build's prospects from "high-risk v high-reward" into "high-risk v. work-twice-as-hard-as-everyone-else for-the-same-reward."

Crits feel off.

Someone with more free time might be able to tell you if and when gauss-crits were nerfed, All I know is that I have to put salvo after salvo into bloody red CT's anymore to get a kill. Just sayin'.

Range sucks, too.

I'd like the gauss to be on par with the ERLL in terms of optimal range, or if I understand things correctly, return it to the longer fall off model it used to have for beyond-optimal ranges way back. And the light gauss... I mean, thanks for the damage buff but that range really sucks, now.

Don't get me started on Ammo/ton

It's a crime.

TLDR: Fix hit reg. Too many armor quirks. Crits are weak. Range is weak. More ammo/ton.

I put that.

Edited for grammar.

Edited by Risen Trash, 06 June 2023 - 08:48 PM.

[Meep Meep]

Gauss needs an optimal reduction but with a corresponding max range increase and a velocity nerf. It's currently waaaay too good.

[Saved By The Bell]

Heavy gauss and Lights gauss a bit more range may be.

[Meep Meep]

Light gauss should be the longest ranged with gauss in the middle and heavy the shortest. However I think all of their optimals need a nerf with a corresponding buff to max range. Let all of them do damage out to the edge of any map but nerf their full damage potential to a more sane range. I think er larges also need a bit of a dial back for their optimal too with a duration increase. Er ppc are already either too hot for clan or just pointless over other options on IS and are more or less fine atm. Maybe some attention to heavy ppc.

[PocketYoda]

It just needs a cool down reduction especially hgauss.. At the moment its like are you ever going to fire again..

That and i'm so sick of the Gauss firing mechanic.. I can use it but its so frustrating i don't bother..

Edited by PocketYoda, 07 June 2023 - 12:07 AM.

[Vonbach]

Lol 0/10 troll.

[Heavy Money]

Gauss is weak on its own, but is part of the most powerful weapon combos in the game. It can't really be buffed without breaking Gauss+ERLL, LGR+ERPPC, etc. Its a bit of a disappointing situation as it would be nice if 2GR was more viable on heavy mechs, but there's not really any way around it. I suppose if Gauss could no longer be fire alongside ERLL (or LGR alongside PPCs) then it could be buffed on its own, but that's also pretty annoying.

[Vorpal Puppy]

I have a number of complaints about balance and the cauldron, but the state of regular Gauss is not one of them. Hitreg is a legitimate issue, but it always seemed better with Gauss than peeps at least for me personally. I run a dual Gauss / 4 ERML Warhammer a lot. It's not meta, but its fun. I could maybe see a small ammo increase per ton, or an increase to health, but you will absolutely have to do something about Gauss and ERLL together to buff it any more than a little.

[Trans Batgirl]

Maybe its bait maybe its real IDK, Gauss is insanely good, you wanna talk about feels bad C-UAC having such big burst fires while having a rough velocity and the jamming is so awful. IDK how on earth you can talk about hit registration and talk about the single shot pinpoint weapons lol.

[foamyesque]

Risen Trash, on 06 June 2023 - 08:44 PM, said:

Bunk hit reg punishes the gauss build especially. Nowhere else is so much damage locked up in an in-game asset that has to move down range and connect with it's target.

*AC/20 has entered the chat*

[Storky]

Risen Trash, on 06 June 2023 - 08:44 PM, said:

Start with the overall state of hit reg.

Anyone dependent on ballistic models right now will tell you hit reg is in a bad place. When its on, I know it. It's what you would think happens when you put 30pts of PPD into an open orange ST. I'm also pretty reasonable about my capabilities: When I'm off, I know that too. Most of the time I'm mad in this game, it's not my teammates. I'm mad at myself for missing shots I know I can make. But beyond that, there are times when I've traded with a light and had >100 points of damage sponged up, only to have a teammate trot in with a couple of MLs and sit them down.

What I'm talking about is beyond the armor we're now ok with lights and mediums heaping on (but I'm not letting you off that easy see below). I feel like I get the red pip indicating a hit, but I don't get anywhere near the damage I'm supposed to be inflicting. Sometimes my damage number at the end doesn't add up. When you run nothing but a pair of GR, you get good at counting your hits and misses and noting your range. Maximizing your return on ammo consumption is essential. Sometimes, the numbers at the end seem off.

It might be the same for other ballistics. I know I've taken some pretty weak showers of RAC fire; it wouldn't surprise me to find only one out of every four bullets register at all. People used to say you shouldn't group-fire PPCs because hits after the first don't always register. I don't know if that's still a thing. Hits may not be registering for LRM-boaters, either. You'll have to take their word for it. Not a lot of complaints from hitscanners, it seems.

Bunk hit reg punishes the gauss build especially. Nowhere else is so much damage locked up in an in-game asset that has to move down range and connect with it's target. It's at best an all-or-nothing affair, and if something goes wrong along that 3-part event, and as a result of bad game architecture the "all" isn't registering, the gauss-build finds itself faced with an infuriating "nothing-or-nothing" affair.

Every armor quirk is another gauss nerf.

Gauss weapons are unique in this game in that their faculty does not directly derive from their DPS. The above mentioned "all or nothing" proposition of so much PPD per cycle at range can be more beneficial to a distance trade with a sloppy-handed Clan laser-boat, for example, even if on paper they're generating more DPS. Laser alpha is easily twisted over several hitboxes, and What happens to that LL-boat alpha when its ST is gone? Then there are the smaller mechs. Lights and smaller mediums trade armor and firepower for size and speed, and some of these quirks reduce a lot of the downside of that tradeoff. I feel that the armor quirks hurt gauss builds especially because they cannot put up the big alphas that other weapons can. They *have* to knock off a laser-boat's ST or they will be out DPS'd every time. They *have* to lead and connect with that Urbie --the one you sometimes miss with hitscan-- or it will run circles around you and tear you apart.

The difference between needing 3 hits to take down an enemy and needing 5 is no where else in this game so acute a disadvantage. When you give these targets buffs to their armor/structure, the gauss-build must work harder than any other build to win. As it is with crummy hit reg, so do armor quirks turn a gauss-build's prospects from "high-risk v high-reward" into "high-risk v. work-twice-as-hard-as-everyone-else for-the-same-reward."

Crits feel off.

Someone with more free time might be able to tell you if and when gauss-crits were nerfed, All I know is that I have to put salvo after salvo into bloody red CT's anymore to get a kill. Just sayin'.

Range sucks, too.

I'd like the gauss to be on par with the ERLL in terms of optimal range, or if I understand things correctly, return it to the longer fall off model it used to have for beyond-optimal ranges way back. And the light gauss... I mean, thanks for the damage buff but that range really sucks, now.

Don't get me started on Ammo/ton

It's a crime.

TLDR: Fix hit reg. Too many armor quirks. Crits are weak. Range is weak. More ammo/ton.

I put that.

Edited for grammar.

Std Gauss is fine in skilled hands. Limit of combination options is sux.
But Cauldron guys test builds and prefer gauss for a mid+ range. These guys play on the top level and they almost never miss with pinpoint weapons. Also they prefer a mid+ range builds.
Gauss is already very toxic with ECM.

Currently std Gauss is fine on the top lvl. Buffing it on the middle level will make it meta. Combined with blue lasers it's gonna be long range meta domination. Do you really want it?

Saved By The Bell, on 06 June 2023 - 11:03 PM, said:

Heavy gauss and Lights gauss a bit more range may be.

+

That would be great

[An6ryMan69]

I hate dual gauss sniper enemies enough already - how about we DON'T buff them, ever.

I wouldn't mind seeing a new gauss feature, now that I think of it. Firing Gauss breaks Stealth armor effects and ECM coverage for two seconds upon firing, and immediately pops the shooter up on the mini-map for two seconds as well. Call it some kind of hypersonic-electromagnetic-interference effect or something...

I could get behind that...

Edited by An6ryMan69, 09 June 2023 - 12:43 PM.

[Vonbach]

I have a better idea make all shots over 500 meters or so require a lock like LRMS do.

[An6ryMan69]

Vonbach, on 09 June 2023 - 12:24 PM, said:

I have a better idea make all shots over 500 meters or so require a lock like LRMS do.

Ha Ha Ha - if we are comparing Gauss to LRM's then we need Bitching Betty screaming out "Gauss sniper dirtbag is targetting you!" whenever appropriate.

Edited by An6ryMan69, 09 June 2023 - 12:34 PM.

[Risen Trash]

An6ryMan69, on 09 June 2023 - 12:22 PM, said:

I hate dual gauss sniper enemies enough already - how about we DON'T buff them, ever.

One of the best pieces of advice I've ever received in these forums was that before I started complaining about a system or mech or build that keeps killing me, I should try running it for a while.

[Heavy Money]

Dual gauss on its own is crap. If you're getting troubled by a stealth Thanatos or something that's a problem with you, not Gauss.

Now Gauss+ERLL is incredibly strong, especially clan. 2R+2-4ERLL on NTG, DWF, MAD IIC, WHM IIC etc is extremely good.

[Storky]

Gauss has too much synergy with ECM and Stealth armor. It must be nerfed as that was done to gauss+ppc ghost heat to be balanced.
I have that gauss Thanatos, the most braindead build ever

[CherokeeRose187]

Heavy Money, on 09 June 2023 - 05:08 PM, said:

Dual gauss on its own is crap. If you're getting troubled by a stealth Thanatos or something that's a problem with you, not Gauss.

Now Gauss+ERLL is incredibly strong, especially clan. 2R+2-4ERLL on NTG, DWF, MAD IIC, WHM IIC etc is extremely good.

When I'm running the NTG with 2ERLL and 2Guass I don't even know how my damage numbers get so high so fast.

IIRC only running about 5 tons of ammo, yet by the time I run out I'm generally at over 900 dmg.

I thought it was the dumbest build ever when I first saw someone running it, then I tried it myself, out of curiosity. Even dying mid game I usually have over 450dmg. It doesn't even seem logical, but it racks those numbers up like magic

Edited by CherokeeRose187, 10 June 2023 - 07:03 PM.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Storky, on 10 June 2023 - 04:02 PM, said:

Gauss has too much synergy with ECM and Stealth armor. It must be nerfed as that was done to gauss+ppc ghost heat to be balanced.
I have that gauss Thanatos, the most braindead build ever

it's also a build that most times just wastes the slot for a 75t mech. many pilots sit around, doing a little dmg here and there, only to hide for the next ~5minutes IF they're spotted etc - ending the game with doing very little.

is it nice and relaxed to play? maybe. is it as good or even better than other properly piloted 75tonners?
I srsly doubt it.

[ThreeStooges]

If they removed the charge thing every mech that could mount it would. Rest of acs wouldn't see use. I'd make the charge last five seconds and eight on the hbk-gi.