51 replies to this topic

[Marcel Leander]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 13 June 2023 - 10:14 PM, said:

- TAG doesn't speed up locks, it just makes ECM-shielded mechs targetable. This is for your own TAG, anyway.

But the in-game tool tip on TAG says it accelerates missile locks? Did they change what TAG does and never bother to update the tool tips? That's kind of messed up if I can't trust the tool tips to be accurate. I base my builds on what the game tells me its items do.

[Heavy Money]

Marcel Leander, on 15 June 2023 - 08:22 PM, said:

But the in-game tool tip on TAG says it accelerates missile locks? Did they change what TAG does and never bother to update the tool tips? That's kind of messed up if I can't trust the tool tips to be accurate. I base my builds on what the game tells me its items do.

It does accelerate missile locks, but only for indirect ones. So if someone else is tagging someone you can't see, you get a lock on them faster. It doesn't help you lock stuff you are tagging because you can see them. It does still help with locking stuff with ECM/Stealth, and you get 1s of target decay. So still very worthwhile.

[Marcel Leander]

Ah. I see. Here I was looking at some builds online that said bring your own TAG so you can get faster locks, so when I read the tooltip I took it to mean that. I guess the only reason to bring your own TAG is if you are stealth hunting then.

On an aside, I don't normally compare ATMs to LRMs. I tend to use ATMs as a replacement for Streaks. An ATM6 takes up one more slot and half a ton more than an SSRM6. And the ATM ammo buckets only carry 105 per ton to the Streak's 140. But beyond that:

I have a spreadsheet put together that among other things calculates damage per cooldown, damage per heat, and damage per ton, and even in the second damage bracket the ATM6 is doing 3 damage per cooldown, 2.93 damage per heat, and 3.43 damage per ton to the SSRM6's 2.49 damage per cooldown, 2.91 damage per heat, and 3.4 damage per ton.

The ATM6 has a slightly shorter range for the first bracket than an SSRM6 and the projectiles are a little slower, but filling the range and velocity sections of the skill tree will bring those values on an ATM6 up to very near the level of an unskilled SSRM6 with all the bonus of the added (2.7 per missile is it now?) punch within the same range and then the addition of that second range bracket that gives you even more range where it still does a tiny bit more damage for a little bit less heat. They both fire six missiles, but I think the ATM missiles have more health than the Streaks.

And that third damage bracket isn't useful for doing damage, but it still provides suppressive fire when the enemy sees "Incoming Missile" on their screen they don't know what's coming. I don't even worry about the minimum range now as I don't plan to get close enough to my target to kiss them.

[Heavy Money]

Marcel Leander, on 15 June 2023 - 09:14 PM, said:

Ah. I see. Here I was looking at some builds online that said bring your own TAG so you can get faster locks, so when I read the tooltip I took it to mean that. I guess the only reason to bring your own TAG is if you are stealth hunting then.

Its pretty much mandatory for dealing with ECM targets at range. Always bring one.

Edited by Heavy Money, 15 June 2023 - 10:42 PM.

[foamyesque]

Heavy Money, on 15 June 2023 - 10:40 PM, said:

Its pretty much mandatory for dealing with ECM targets at range. Always bring one.

Honestly, where possible, I'd rather fit a LPPC. Trickier with clans 'cause you need to commit to an ERPPC, but on the other hand, you've got clan half-weight launchers, so you're still ahead, I guess. The heat's a real bear though.

[Heavy Money]

foamyesque, on 15 June 2023 - 10:47 PM, said:

Honestly, where possible, I'd rather fit a LPPC. Trickier with clans 'cause you need to commit to an ERPPC, but on the other hand, you've got clan half-weight launchers, so you're still ahead, I guess. The heat's a real bear though.

That can be nice to have for sure, but then you've gotta wait for the projectile to land, and need to not miss. Its much less reliable at longer ranges.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

foamyesque, on 15 June 2023 - 09:34 AM, said:

It's my understanding that LRM lockon time is related to the percentage of your maximum sensor range you're trying to do it at.

This only applies to locks without direct line of sight. Targets in line of sight always have the fastest lock time possible.

[Meep Meep]

Tag is also useful on your own mech if there are other missile mechs on your side. That way everyone gets a fast lock and can make it rain.

[Ken Harkin]

My go to LRM mech when running solo pug is a Dervish. 2LRM 15, 1 TAG, 3 ERML, BEAGLE, JJ, XL Engine, Ammo.

The added mobility of a medium with reduced perceived threat allows you to stay out in the second line without attracting lots of direct fire. TAG gets the direct fire locks at the 500 -750 meter range with a constant bombardment and the 3 ERML allow contribution when locks aren't happening.

I have been running this build in Tier 3, which means seeing everyone, and it definitely performs well.

Too many people want to sit on the far side of the map out of view and hurl LRMs over terrain. When that fails they take their heavy and assault and move into the closer lines where the LRM rate of damage spread over the target cannot compete with the direct fire they receive in return. You need to have the speed and maneuverability to gain your own locks while avoiding the majority of return attention. I find a medium does that best and has a higher chance of surviving the length of the fight meaning more damage done.

Now when you have a dedicated light doing spotting, TAG, UAV work that is coordinating then the heavy and assault LRM boats really shine.

[Kubernetes]

Kotis77, on 15 June 2023 - 06:46 AM, said:

Kubes!

Welcome back brother.

If you wanna drop with us to FP or QP we still around.

And true that uav's is all around nowdays.

Kotis! Good to see you're still about. Still getting back into the swing of things, but playing pretty regularly in the evenings, US Pacific.

[Runecarver]

Chryckan, on 12 June 2023 - 11:31 AM, said:

Wow, Lrms Are Really Really Bad These Days!

Yes they are. And you can see in this thread how many hoops they have to jump and juggle through just to get basic functionality. Where every other weapon is now a point and click adventure with next to zero thought having to be put in. Lasers require little tracking of the target anymore thanks to short burn durations, ppcs and ballistics have so much velocity you barely have to lead a target or account of bullet drop.

You can dodge those missiles, even though they are spread all over the target. And people screech loudly when they get hit by them when its entirely their own fault. While you can't really dodge lasers, ppcs, ballistics and just eat their damage into a single section.