51 replies to this topic

[Kubernetes]

VeeOt Dragon, on 13 June 2023 - 10:59 PM, said:

. i think comp players hate them just because they force them to think instead of just doing the usual meta crap.

No, that ain’t it.

[w0qj]

ATM minimum range decreased to 60m (from 120m), Dec 2022 patch:
https://mwomercs.com...-13december2022
https://mwomercs.com...auldron-changes

I actually see more folks fielding ATM now!

[Meep Meep]

The main uptick in atm activity I have seen is a shadowcat build which poptart fires them. It's a pest.

[Chryckan]

Kubernetes, on 13 June 2023 - 06:59 PM, said:

> no teammate is skilled enough keep a enemy marked

I hate this complaint, which is another reason to hate LRMers.

Listen buddy, if I’m at the front line trading with the enemy, I’m not going to be able to hold locks while I’m dodging behind cover or torso twisting to spread damage. I hit R as a matter of habit because I like to know what I’m shooting, but I’m not going to stand out in the open getting cored out so I can maintain your precious locks. If you want dependable locks, bring your own TAG and get up closer where you can actually see the enemy. Or drop with a buddy who likes to Narc. Regardless, nobody is obligated to die for you so you can stay safe and pristine.

Let me clarify. No teammate is skilled enough to keep an enemy marked for the LONG LONG TIME required to achieve a lock-on with LRMs these days.

The point I was trying to make was that indirect lock-ons took so long to achieve that even when a pair of mechs was circle brawling thus keeping each other marked and in view, one side was already dead by the time lock-on was achieved.

I don't expect my teammates to risk themselves to keep enemies marked so my lurmboat can shoot safely from a distance. I do however, expect an indirect weapon system to lock-on and fire during the brief moment an enemy is marked indirectly. Most people only keep enemies marked for a couple of seconds and used to be that was enough to get a salvo off. Not anymore. Hence, my point that no one was skilled enough to keep an enemy marked for lurmboats.

[Meep Meep]

How are you skilling your lrm mech? You should be taking every node that extends sensor range because the longer the sensor range the faster the lock. This is why an active probe is a must for an lrm mech since it has a bonus to sensor range. Some mechs have a built in bonus like the cat c4 that gives you the same sensor range minus the active probe but you can still stick one on for even faster locks. I typically forgo it for one more precious ton of ammo.

Now in some instances a mech will be lit but its an ecm mech or near one so your indirect lock is going to take much longer. You have to get in los then.

[crazytimes]

Chryckan, on 14 June 2023 - 10:07 AM, said:

Let me clarify. No teammate is skilled enough to keep an enemy marked for the LONG LONG TIME required to achieve a lock-on with LRMs these days.

Firstly if you lack the 'skill' to get your own locks, why do you expect everyone else to have it? Secondly, outside of the lower tiers, it's not unusual to have matches with no LRMs being used at all. Why should people be sitting there 'holding locks' for non-existent lrms, when they could just be shooting?

[Kubernetes]

crazytimes, on 14 June 2023 - 01:31 PM, said:

Firstly if you lack the 'skill' to get your own locks, why do you expect everyone else to have it? Secondly, outside of the lower tiers, it's not unusual to have matches with no LRMs being used at all. Why should people be sitting there 'holding locks' for non-existent lrms, when they could just be shooting?

The other thing is that UAVs go up all the time now. I've been away a couple years, but one thing that struck me when I got back is that everyone loves UAVs now. Moment of first contact - boom - a couple UAVs pop. If LRMers can't get damage in these conditions, it's because they're too lazy to reposition (if you're shooting directly over teammates' heads, consider that the enemies are likely behind cover so they don't get shot by your teammates-- maybe consider moving to a flank so you can get defilade).

[Heavy Money]

Meep Meep, on 14 June 2023 - 10:23 AM, said:

How are you skilling your lrm mech? You should be taking every node that extends sensor range because the longer the sensor range the faster the lock. This is why an active probe is a must for an lrm mech since it has a bonus to sensor range. Some mechs have a built in bonus like the cat c4 that gives you the same sensor range minus the active probe but you can still stick one on for even faster locks. I typically forgo it for one more precious ton of ammo.

Now in some instances a mech will be lit but its an ecm mech or near one so your indirect lock is going to take much longer. You have to get in los then.

Pretty sure Sensor Range does not help lock time.

[Meep Meep]

Heavy Money, on 14 June 2023 - 09:21 PM, said:

Pretty sure Sensor Range does not help lock time.

It's a verified boost to lock time via a dev post a while back. It's not a huge boost but it exists.

[Tywren]

Chryckan, on 14 June 2023 - 10:07 AM, said:

Let me clarify. No teammate is skilled enough to keep an enemy marked for the LONG LONG TIME required to achieve a lock-on

Have you considered adding a TC/Command Console? Max T-Comp gives a 75% boost to lock on speed.

[Meep Meep]

Tywren, on 14 June 2023 - 09:54 PM, said:

Have you considered adding a TC/Command Console? Max T-Comp gives a 75% boost to lock on speed.

That target information speed not lock. It's how fast the paper doll shows up.

[Heavy Money]

Meep Meep, on 14 June 2023 - 09:43 PM, said:

It's a verified boost to lock time via a dev post a while back. It's not a huge boost but it exists.

Hmm its not mentioned in any of the current info sources, like mech DB wiki. So can't confirm if it still exists.
Sensor range matters against ECM of course though.

[Storky]

Meep Meep, on 14 June 2023 - 10:23 AM, said:

How are you skilling your lrm mech? You should be taking every node that extends sensor range because the longer the sensor range the faster the lock. This is why an active probe is a must for an lrm mech since it has a bonus to sensor range. Some mechs have a built in bonus like the cat c4 that gives you the same sensor range minus the active probe but you can still stick one on for even faster locks. I typically forgo it for one more precious ton of ammo.

Now in some instances a mech will be lit but its an ecm mech or near one so your indirect lock is going to take much longer. You have to get in los then.

Maybe you know a table with targeting time and its dependency by distance/weight?

[PocketYoda]

Sniper meta is worse than Lrms

[Kotis77]

I think LRMS are fine atm. If PGI add mechanic that makes them harder to use then they should get buffed. But like how easy they are to use they fine.

[Kotis77]

Kubernetes, on 14 June 2023 - 05:49 PM, said:

The other thing is that UAVs go up all the time now. I've been away a couple years, but one thing that struck me when I got back is that everyone loves UAVs now. Moment of first contact - boom - a couple UAVs pop. If LRMers can't get damage in these conditions, it's because they're too lazy to reposition (if you're shooting directly over teammates' heads, consider that the enemies are likely behind cover so they don't get shot by your teammates-- maybe consider moving to a flank so you can get defilade).

Kubes!

Welcome back brother.

If you wanna drop with us to FP or QP we still around.

And true that uav's is all around nowdays.

[Meep Meep]

Storky, on 15 June 2023 - 02:14 AM, said:

Maybe you know a table with targeting time and its dependency by distance/weight?

Eh that doesn't seem to exist. I'm basing my opinion on a post about a year and a half or so ago when someone reposted a dev comment that more sensor range gives a small boost to lock time. I mean I guess I can set up a lobby and invite in an alt and test it out.

[foamyesque]

Heavy Money, on 14 June 2023 - 09:56 PM, said:

Hmm its not mentioned in any of the current info sources, like mech DB wiki. So can't confirm if it still exists.
Sensor range matters against ECM of course though.

It's my understanding that LRM lockon time is related to the percentage of your maximum sensor range you're trying to do it at.

W.R.T. holding locks: I'm never going to ask someone to expose longer than they have to in order to shoot, but there's been enough times where I've wound up spectating people who start brawling without hitting R for like, thirty seconds, that there are in fact idiots out there who neither know nor care about 'finding the weak point in an enemy mech', 'sharing info with teammates', or indeed 'pressing this button might get me fire support' :v

[crazytimes]

foamyesque, on 15 June 2023 - 09:34 AM, said:

It's my understanding that LRM lockon time is related to the percentage of your maximum sensor range you're trying to do it at.

Yeah this.

If you extend your your sensor range by 10%, that means someone at a given range is a few percent relatively less far out in your sensor bracket, so the range element of lockon is reduced correspondingly, which should reduce lockon by around 1 or 2%.

Worthwhile? Probably not. If your LRM playstyle involves depending on 1 or 2% faster lockons for out of LOS long range locks, your level of contribution may be less than intended.

[foamyesque]

crazytimes, on 15 June 2023 - 12:51 PM, said:

Yeah this.

If you extend your your sensor range by 10%, that means someone at a given range is a few percent relatively less far out in your sensor bracket, so the range element of lockon is reduced correspondingly, which should reduce lockon by around 1 or 2%.

Worthwhile? Probably not. If your LRM playstyle involves depending on 1 or 2% faster lockons for out of LOS long range locks, your level of contribution may be less than intended.

Max sensor range is something you get anyway on your way to full radar deprivation, and it's worthwhile either way, even if you're not a LRM machine -- information wins battles.