40 replies to this topic

[Saved By The Bell]

What place of Tier2 exactly? End of Tier 2 is the same as beginning Tier1.
Start of Tier 2 is the same as Tier 3.

[Bassault]

I think it's better to learn a chassis or a handful of them to maximize your effectiveness with them.

The second one is a strange question. Your range is the most important thing because if you're slow but you have range, you can just sit in a spot and hold it while shooting (assuming your team isn't running away). If your team is running away, unless you know for sure you can hold out, your priority must be to follow them or you will die in a 5v1. Closer ranged fast mechs generally have to nascar or at least have to find a path where they can meet the enemy indirectly but in close range.

Taking the top of vitric is not optimal when your team is all low ground and you're alone. It's also pretty bad for brawlers since you can't shoot anyone there and you might get farmed. It's really good for snipers, mechs with 600+ range and excellent for poptarters. Taking top mid in HPG is always a good idea, in FWC I don't know enough about it.

[feeWAIVER]

1. It's better to stick to one mech you feel comfortable performing in. If you know how the mech performs like the back of your hand, then you're more likely to make good decisions.
2. The faster you are, the less dependent on your team, the more agency you have over your own survival.
3. The optimal choice is finding an angle that lets your see your targets when they aren't looking directly back at you. Only trade when you can win the trades.

[The Mech behind you]

From my experience, if you're all about climbing tiers, pick bigger mechs. Climbing up with assaults or meta-heavies seems to work best. They have the most firepower and it seems PSR is all about how much damage you deal. Works fine for me.

[Bassault]

The Mech behind you, on 07 July 2023 - 08:08 AM, said:

From my experience, if you're all about climbing tiers, pick bigger mechs. Climbing up with assaults or meta-heavies seems to work best. They have the most firepower and it seems PSR is all about how much damage you deal. Works fine for me.

Plenty of lights and mediums can dish out a lot of damage and carry games, this is false. Firestarter, Phoenix Hawk, Incubus are just a few examples.

[Meep Meep]

Meta fits you do well in. Also premades. Getting to tier 1 means playing top level near every match and its no shame to get bogged down in tier 2.

Bassault, on 07 July 2023 - 10:36 AM, said:

Plenty of lights and mediums can dish out a lot of damage and carry games, this is false. Firestarter, Phoenix Hawk, Incubus are just a few examples.

I'm waaaay better in lights and fast mediums than heavy or assaults. Yet its quite hard to maintain psr in those mechs once you break into tier 2 and 1 but when I lulz about in heavy or assaults they print psr like the fed prints dollars and I don't even do all that well in them. Not badly just not top level. For psr purposes damage, assists and kmdd/solo kills are the main contributor and those classes can rack up mega damage just by random poking and making sure those alphas hit. I mean I was mindlessly running a cat c4 lurm spammer and it was printing psr like crazy. Lights and mediums have to work hard for those same numbers. Its why lights get a psr multi in their favor and even then its barely enough.

[Bassault]

Meep Meep, on 07 July 2023 - 10:50 AM, said:

Meta fits you do well in. Also premades. Getting to tier 1 means playing top level near every match and its no shame to get bogged down in tier 2.



I'm waaaay better in lights and fast mediums than heavy or assaults. Yet its quite hard to maintain psr in those mechs once you break into tier 2 and 1 but when I lulz about in heavy or assaults they print psr like the fed prints dollars and I don't even do all that well in them. Not badly just not top level. For psr purposes damage, assists and kmdd/solo kills are the main contributor and those classes can rack up mega damage just by random poking and making sure those alphas hit. I mean I was mindlessly running a cat c4 lurm spammer and it was printing psr like crazy. Lights and mediums have to work hard for those same numbers. Its why lights get a psr multi in their favor and even then its barely enough.

Ok so this just means you aren't as good in lights and mediums as you think you are. 99% of my playtime is in assaults exclusively but my firestarter has a higher wlr and kdr than most of my annihilators and many other assaults. I will agree it takes a certain level of skill to be good with mediums and lights in a different way than assaults, and you have to be constantly shooting in lights/meds, but once you learn how to do it, it's not difficult and it's actually easier because you don't get NASCAR'd to death. Just because you have to work harder for those numbers, that doesn't necessarily mean it's harder or less likely to happen. It's much more consistent, although it does take more effort.

Edited by Bassault, 07 July 2023 - 11:06 AM.

[Meep Meep]

Bassault, on 07 July 2023 - 11:03 AM, said:

Ok so this just means you aren't as good in lights and mediums as you think you are.

Not in the slightest. I have to work harder to gain the same psr with a higher performance than I would need with a heavy or assault. I have higher win rates in lights and mediums because I can more easily influence a given match or pull a carry even if the total damage output isn't as good as me lurching around dropping 90 point alphas into anything daring to expose if I'm in an assault. I might rack up mega damage and a green arrow in it but lose the match because its a lumbering slug that can't flex and dies as soon as two mechs bracket it.

[Bassault]

Meep Meep, on 07 July 2023 - 12:21 PM, said:

Not in the slightest. I have to work harder to gain the same psr with a higher performance than I would need with a heavy or assault. I have higher win rates in lights and mediums because I can more easily influence a given match or pull a carry even if the total damage output isn't as good as me lurching around dropping 90 point alphas into anything daring to expose if I'm in an assault. I might rack up mega damage and a green arrow in it but lose the match because its a lumbering slug that can't flex and dies as soon as two mechs bracket it.

Good. Then it should also follow that you do not struggle to stay in tier 1. The same output shouldn't be too far behind with lights/meds either. They can rack up damage over the duration of a match either by having high dps close range weapons or by being able to fire continuously throughout the match.

Edited by Bassault, 07 July 2023 - 12:25 PM.

[feeWAIVER]

I got to 50% of tier 2 in a Rifleman Legend Killer.
I dropped down to Hunchback 4G and got to 90% tier 2.
I dropped down to a Locust and got to 100% Tier 1.

[Meep Meep]

Bassault, on 07 July 2023 - 12:24 PM, said:

Good. Then it should also follow that you do not struggle to stay in tier 1. The same output shouldn't be too far behind with lights/meds either. They can rack up damage over the duration of a match either by having high dps close range weapons or by being able to fire continuously throughout the match.

Well yeah. Thats why you have to work harder for the same damage output. Constant repositioning to get those shots in.

But do it right and even a single er ppc pir can put in work.

[feeWAIVER]

Meep Meep, on 07 July 2023 - 12:48 PM, said:

Well yeah. Thats why you have to work harder for the same damage output. Constant repositioning to get those shots in.

But do it right and even a single er ppc pir can put in work.

You definitely have to work harder.. as in more key inputs per minute, more shots fired.

[Bassault]

Meep Meep, on 07 July 2023 - 12:48 PM, said:

Well yeah. Thats why you have to work harder for the same damage output. Constant repositioning to get those shots in.

But do it right and even a single er ppc pir can put in work.

Damn that Nokki guy did really good.

[RockmachinE]

I'm sure you know most of this already, so this is not meant to be advice directed at you personally, but just a train of thought I really want to put on paper.

This might get long so strap yourself in and get ready.

Play with mech types that you're good at and enjoy
Play styles vary wildly, trying to force yourself to play something you don't enjoy and are not good at will yield suboptimal play, a lower score and will eventually get you burned out on the game and the mech. Having said that.

Play mechs with high damage outputs (burst and/or sustain damage)
Whether people like it or not, damage = score. Assaults and heavies tend to do more damage and will yield higher scores in the long run, but some lights and mediums can also do surprising amounts of damage over time as they tend to be able to sustain that damage for longer if played and built right.

Play meta builds or at least semi meta builds
The current balance tends to yield a certain style of play, some builds cater more to that than others. Focus most of your gameplay around those builds. Stay away from sub optimal mechs, let alone meme mechs.

Stay away from role specific builds
Ideally you want to be dealing damage from the start of the round - the long range phase, to the end - the brawling phase. Stay away from builds that have too much downtime and rely on specific scenarios to do well. Examples would be brawlers or pure LRM boats. There are exceptions to this, like knife fighting lights, but only go for these exceptions if you're really skilled at using them to make high scores. Which leads us to:

Sustain damage throughout the whole round
Be aggressive, be bold and cheeky, keep pelting the enemy with damage as much as possible. Minimize down time (dealing no damage) and maximize active time (damaging enemies)

Learn to survive, but also when to trade
Some people play too passively and hide, this is not good survival. Utilize your own team, your armor and your positioning to
deal as much damage as possible and get as little in return. Know however when to trade your own armor to get that kill or those nasty alphas for maximum damage. Having said that.

Play for the team, get additional score
Playing selfishly will yield a lower score and a potential loss. You get bonuses for staying with your lance, using UAVs, AMS, spotting and similar things. Engage in all of those activities, but don't try to force them. Help your team win.

Go for assists
Molest every single enemy mech you see, even at extreme ranges, bad angles, and suboptimal shots. Remember even a slight ping of a laser burn will yield an assist if the mech goes down.

Double/triple coolshot
I can't stress this enough. On all but the coolest mechs always run double coolshots and coolshot cooldown nodes. This will improve all aspects of your game. The few skill points are well worth it. You will sustain damage longer, you will survive longer, you will get more kills. Also don't be afraid to pop the shots, don't be stingy, as soon as you're hot and there's more stuff to shoot, pop it.

There's a style to pop a coolshot early. If you see you will be engaged for longer, particularly in 1v1 scenario pop a coolshot when your mech is at 50% heat, this way you avoid potential structure damage, this starts the cooldown for the next coolshot early and it will allow you to focus on the combat more.

Ride the heat scale
If you're not riding the heatscale you're not sustaining enough damage. Be careful not to damage yourself too much, but you have to be aggressive. There's a stupid notion going around the forums that overriding is a bad thing. Always override and ride the scale.

Aim for 400-450 damage minimum
I've noticed that usually at this score I tend to get PSR up regardless if I'm on the winning or losing team. PSR gain or loss is relative to all the other players' performance, but at the same time there tends to be an average and 450 or higher will usually, not always, but usually result in gain regardless of victory. Its not too difficult actually.

Play with a group
If you're that type of person you can try to find a good group and farm the pugs. Personally I'm a lone wolf, but a good group will improve your overall stats and score. Having said that, don't get stuck with a carp group. There are bad premades and they will hold you back.

Don't worry if you have a losing streak
The PSR bar will drop at certain points, don't worry its not just a linear process, it will dip and go up. So long as you progress.

Take a break and play fun/quirky/goofy/suboptimal mechs, prevent burnout
This might sound contrary to what I've said before, but chasing that bar can be tedious and annoying, sacrifice that PSR and play stuff that's quirky and different, when you've had enough go back. Don't get stuck in meta land.

Stay in T2
There's really no reason to go for T1, T2 is a good place to be, you will find matches quicker and you will be able to pay with a broader spectrum of players, you still get the T1 tryhards, but you also get lower ranked players which makes for a more chill game overall.

Don't chase the PSR bar
This is my final advice, I would not chase the Tier bar at all, let it be an organic reflection of your place in MWO, it does literally nothing and just makes the game into a chore. For all its faults it is a general reflection of player skill and does tend to lump players together based on ability.

Finally here's a few mechs
These might or might not suit your playstyle, they are also not uber meta and I realize some people will dismantle these as crap, but they work for me are very very decent overall. These always keep my damage and score high regardless of how well or badly I play.


NOVA CAT - NCT PRIME (the Overseer) - 2xERPPC in one arm, 3xERLL in the other, 26 heatsinks
This is as simple as it gets. Its really tough and tanky and can sustain the hot weapons due to its comical number of heatsinks, its more like an assault than a heavy. It also has ideal PPC and ERLL quirks. You'll say, but RockmachinE this is a pure long range build what are you talking about? You'd be wrong. With this you can engage at any range, because of very strong cooling and quite dangerous weaponry you have enough punch, sustain and armor to fight at any range. The key is to be aggressive, don't let other mechs bully you, you bully them instead it works. Shoot at enemies throughout the whole round at any range.

MAD CAT MK II - MCII-B (Metabreaker) - 2xUAC5, 2xUAC10 one in each arm, single jumpjet
At 68 Kp/h (speed tweak) This thing is fast, its tanky and it deals a crap ton of damage over a period of time. Its a super simple mech and doesn't require much thought. The key is to be extremely aggressive when it comes to shooting enemy mechs. As soon as someone pops up start pelting them with the UACs, double tap alpha and then sustain damage. If some ambushes you respond aggressively. Make them know you don't mess around. This is consistently one of the highest damage mechs for me personally.

CYCLOPS - SLEIPNIR (Quad damage) - 4xLB10X
You put your crosshair on things and they die. This thing is a beast, you will dismantle enemy mechs with ease. It can sustain damage for a really long time and that 40 alpha becomes 120 really really fast and you can keep going. Aggression is key again, bully other mechs into submission. It is a bit tricky to play as its slow, you need to have situational awareness and rely on your team, but boy do things die once you start shooting them. This will yield very high damage numbers. The downside is that its a MC mech, but you have an opportunity to get one with the summer event!

VAPOR EAGLE - VGL 1 (RockSolid) - 2x ERPPC, 1xLB10X, 4xJJ @ 90Kp/h
This one is extremely specific. Its my favorite mech at the moment that's why I've included it. You would say RockmachinE now you're just full of crap, why not run the 3xERPPC this is not an optimal build at all. Well, you might be right, but this mech embodies my playstyle perfectly. Its fast, mobile, Vapes are tanky with good geometry, has jumpjets, can poptart, can engage at any range and most importantly can sustain damage. The reason the LB10X complements this mech well is that you can keep shooting it while your PPCs are on cooldown, and you can keep shooting it as your heat is dissipating as well. Allowing you to sustain damage without the need to leave the fight. And if you say, its just an LB10X dude, I can't tell you how many times I've killed mechs with the weapon, how many lights I've crippled or killed while the PPCs were cooling down. You can poptart with this thing, reposition as you see fit, deal damage at all ranges and survive quite a bit. I love this thing.

Good luck with your endeavors!

Edited by RockmachinE, 07 July 2023 - 02:48 PM.

[cougurt]

the check engine light, on 07 July 2023 - 06:52 AM, said:

Now that I have had a few days to recharge, I have questions.

I feel like I am stagnating in T2 and need to evaluate exactly how to move forward, and possibly upward.

Question 1: Is it better to stick with a given chassis, playstyle or loadout type for an entire session or is switching up between matches conducive to better results?
Question 2: Which is more important when deciding who I need to be nearest to on any given map - my optimal range, my ground speed or something else?
Question 3: When is taking top on Vitric, taking the high ridge on FWC or staying on the top mid area in HPG NOT the optimal choice?

1. if you're solely concerned with making it into tier 1, then it's probably best to stick with mechs/builds you're comfortable with for the time being, provided they're not completely shithouse. that said, you may want to branch out at some point and try other mechs and playstyles in order to become a more well-rounded player and obtain greater insight into the game overall.

2. it depends. generally speaking, you just want to be somewhere that allows you to play your build to its strengths. if you've got range, you want to hang far back in a spot with good sightlines. if you're a brawler, you'll likely want to stick fairly close to your team and minimize exposure until you can get within brawling range. that might sound obvious, but a lot of players simply don't think about it and default to following whoever's at the front of the pack, regardless of what they're in. of course circumstances won't be ideal most of the time and you will often have to make the best of a bad situation, but as a starting point you should always try to do what makes the most sense for your build and then adapt as necessary to whatever goofy nonsense may be happening.

3. pretty much what bassault said, i don't really have anything more to add.

[LordNothing]

i got past the 2/3 mark my self just to start the backslide, and that was mostly caused by the early op legendries. currently holding at 1/3. it just takes one bad losing streak and you are in t3 again. im happy that i can reliably get to t2 and stay there if i run the right mechs, but i like to run all the mechs. i like to think i could get to t1 if i only run meta and dont screw around, but until that happens im fine being a t2 player. and sliding into t3 is just going to hurt lower skilled players, staying in t2 is the best thing i can do for them.

Edited by LordNothing, 07 July 2023 - 03:43 PM.

[Meep Meep]

Bassault, on 07 July 2023 - 01:17 PM, said:

Damn that Nokki guy did really good.

Because I kept the the last three reds busy while he farmed them.

Took out two and died as he finished off the last one who got me.

[sycocys]

Consistently in your range, cycle and speed make a huge difference.

[SafeScanner]

Nine-Ball, on 07 July 2023 - 04:03 PM, said:

Boooooooooooooo!

Heretic!

Booooooooooooooo!

id agree with overiding if my mech would'nt implode after the 1-2 second tick of damage
oh hell with it

Boooooooooooooo!

Heretic!

Booooooooooooooo!

[Saved By The Bell]

To stay in Tier 1 you need big mechs with high damage or good meta lights-mediums.
If you like researching non-meta mechs, like me, you ll drop to Tier 2 from time to time.