30 replies to this topic

[PocketYoda]

I thought it got nerfed early on in MWO days.. Also since they nerfed double heat sinks on IS you can't even fit them in legs anymore..

Edited by PocketYoda, 23 June 2023 - 07:01 AM.

[Marcel Leander]

Thorqemada, on 23 June 2023 - 01:50 AM, said:

Hmmm, wasnt that a feature for leg based heat sinks?

Or maybe they really track if any of the heatsinks is sumberged...

But if it is leg based it would affect 4 single heat sinks probably more than 2 double heatsinks.

And probably not all waterbodys are flagged for it i guess...

Well what's the heat dissipation ratio between the two in MWO? Like I was saying earlier, in tabletop doubles have the same dissipation rate as two singles. If that were the case, then any percentage increase across the board would also be the same for a double as two singles.

[LordNothing]

PocketYoda, on 23 June 2023 - 07:00 AM, said:

I thought it got nerfed early on in MWO days.. Also since they nerfed double heat sinks on IS you can't even fit them in legs anymore..

is double heat sinks have always been 3 slots. you can however cram four shs in there, but shs builds leave something to be desired. they do work in some urbies or other lights that generally dont have heat problems, and a few larger mechs that can boat shs (usually vomit builds with standard lasers and good heat quirks). viable use cases are pretty rare.

i do kind of wish shs quirks were a thing.

[Der Geisterbaer]

PocketYoda, on 23 June 2023 - 07:00 AM, said:

Also since they nerfed double heat sinks on IS you can't even fit them in legs anymore..

And when did this particular nerf allegedly occur? As in "non-engine-internal IS double heatsinks always required 3 critical slots in games that properly replicated crit slots from TT"

[LordNothing]

mw2 mercs had the same.

[feeWAIVER]

kalashnikity, on 22 June 2023 - 01:49 PM, said:

Good points, interesting that mechs with a partially submerged torso gave a percentage of cooling for having the torso partially submerged, if I knew where the deepest spot was I could try and fully submerge something besides a fle. I haven't tested a locust, but it should be the same as the fle.

This is an interesting mechanic, I wish there were more maps with water features, especially deep ones, that this could be used on. I was able to torment red team on Forest Colony classic with this trick, at the broken ship brawl spot in my stealth fle. .

If this is true, I wonder if the position of the heatsync in the torso would have an effect, I relation to the water level.
IE, heatsyncs placed at the bottom of your torse, below weapons, would be submerged- while heatsyncs at the top, above weapons would not.

[Marcel Leander]

feeWAIVER, on 23 June 2023 - 08:09 AM, said:

If this is true, I wonder if the position of the heatsync in the torso would have an effect, I relation to the water level.
IE, heatsyncs placed at the bottom of your torse, below weapons, would be submerged- while heatsyncs at the top, above weapons would not.

Personally, I would love to see this mechanic; however, call me a cynic but from seeing enough other things that should have been in the game but they could never get to work (LBX ammo switching for example) this sounds like something complicated enough that I kind of have my doubts that it's implemented.

[Marcel Leander]

LordNothing, on 23 June 2023 - 07:54 AM, said:

is double heat sinks have always been 3 slots. you can however cram four shs in there, but shs builds leave something to be desired. they do work in some urbies or other lights that generally dont have heat problems, and a few larger mechs that can boat shs (usually vomit builds with standard lasers and good heat quirks). viable use cases are pretty rare.

i do kind of wish shs quirks were a thing.

Well single heat sink has .85 Heat Capacity and .15 Dissipation. The Double has .5 Heat Capacity and .22 Dissipation. So the double has a little extra dissipation but comes at a big loss for capacity. But consider that it's a choice between a 70% increase in capacity or a 46.7% increase in dissipation. So the single heat sink gives you MORE usable heat points over time but it can only give them to you in batches between which you have to wait longer to cool off.

So when is a single heat sink advantageous? I can think of a couple situations - Stealth, in particular because it doesn't dissipate heat with its stealth on, can benefit tremendously from being able to shoot more shots while in stealth mode before having to go find somewhere to decloak and cool off. Then also if you're running a hit and run light, where you zip past and fire off an alpha, having that extra capacity lets you alpha more heat without blowing up, and since you run away after that shot anyway you just wait a little longer to come back for the next. So since your choice is between bringing more lasers to your attack vs less lasers but you can attack more often, I think hitting harder and less often gives you the advantage of getting more damage in but spending less time in the enemy's crosshairs.

[PocketYoda]

Der Geisterbaer, on 23 June 2023 - 07:54 AM, said:

And when did this particular nerf allegedly occur? As in "non-engine-internal IS double heatsinks always required 3 critical slots in games that properly replicated crit slots from TT"

Why are they called double heatsinks if they are triple heatsinks.

Marcel Leander, on 23 June 2023 - 06:23 PM, said:

Well single heat sink has .85 Heat Capacity and .15 Dissipation. The Double has .5 Heat Capacity and .22 Dissipation. So the double has a little extra dissipation but comes at a big loss for capacity. But consider that it's a choice between a 70% increase in capacity or a 46.7% increase in dissipation. So the single heat sink gives you MORE usable heat points over time but it can only give them to you in batches between which you have to wait longer to cool off.

So when is a single heat sink advantageous? I can think of a couple situations - Stealth, in particular because it doesn't dissipate heat with its stealth on, can benefit tremendously from being able to shoot more shots while in stealth mode before having to go find somewhere to decloak and cool off. Then also if you're running a hit and run light, where you zip past and fire off an alpha, having that extra capacity lets you alpha more heat without blowing up, and since you run away after that shot anyway you just wait a little longer to come back for the next. So since your choice is between bringing more lasers to your attack vs less lasers but you can attack more often, I think hitting harder and less often gives you the advantage of getting more damage in but spending less time in the enemy's crosshairs.

Annihilator builds can work with single heatsinks.

Edited by PocketYoda, 24 June 2023 - 05:43 AM.

[Der Geisterbaer]

PocketYoda, on 24 June 2023 - 05:41 AM, said:

Why are they called double heatsinks if they are triple heatsinks.

So the alleged "nerf" did not occur and now you're trying to ask a "clever" question that has a simple answer that you would be familiar with had you bothered to actually "learn" about the game you're playing and / or the board game this based upon:

"Double Heatsinks" were originally named as such because their cooling was 2 heat units per 1 ton of weight instead of just 1 per 1 ton of weight. of that a "Stanard Heatsink" provides => "Double" does not refer to the number of crit slots but the cooling capacity per ton.
So just like your "they gave all LRM mechs C3" ramblings this is just once again you not having a single clue what you're talking about.

Side note: That PGI decided to change the cooling efficiency of "Double Heatsinks" is an entirely different debate.

[LordNothing]

Marcel Leander, on 23 June 2023 - 06:23 PM, said:

Well single heat sink has .85 Heat Capacity and .15 Dissipation. The Double has .5 Heat Capacity and .22 Dissipation. So the double has a little extra dissipation but comes at a big loss for capacity. But consider that it's a choice between a 70% increase in capacity or a 46.7% increase in dissipation. So the single heat sink gives you MORE usable heat points over time but it can only give them to you in batches between which you have to wait longer to cool off.

So when is a single heat sink advantageous? I can think of a couple situations - Stealth, in particular because it doesn't dissipate heat with its stealth on, can benefit tremendously from being able to shoot more shots while in stealth mode before having to go find somewhere to decloak and cool off. Then also if you're running a hit and run light, where you zip past and fire off an alpha, having that extra capacity lets you alpha more heat without blowing up, and since you run away after that shot anyway you just wait a little longer to come back for the next. So since your choice is between bringing more lasers to your attack vs less lasers but you can attack more often, I think hitting harder and less often gives you the advantage of getting more damage in but spending less time in the enemy's crosshairs.

the main advantage i see see is possibly giving you an extra alpha at the cost of a significantly longer reset time. if using a build that can kill a mech in 2 or 3 well placed shots, running a shs boat can work. but you need to dedicate a huge amount of tonnage to cooling. usually works best with a standard laser boat. i have a couple tbolts built thusly. gives you a fast kill ability but just undermines your survivability in a fight with multiple targets.

there are other situations where you just dont need the dissipation. or rather you need the space that dhs would consume more than you need a fast reset. which is the case with some squirrels. a gauss urbie is a good example. also useful on 20 tonners used for hit and run attacks.

Edited by LordNothing, 24 June 2023 - 07:26 AM.