97 replies to this topic

[Will9761]

KursedVixen, on 28 June 2023 - 07:17 AM, said:

Due to how the balance in this game works IS omni's will break the game

not to mention other issues that will need fixed before we should even consider this.

I'm all for a valid disagreement, but you have to back that up with proof. Otherwise, I would consider this statement a fallacy based on hatred and as an unwilling mindset to being open to change.

Gas Guzzler, on 28 June 2023 - 03:52 PM, said:

To be clear, the OXL engine couldn't be equipped on anything. It would solely be the locked engine type (and size) on IS omni mechs that canonically have an XL engine.

Oh, Absolutely. Hence why I said that could be a new option to differentiate to the other engines. I just didn't clarify how it could be, so here is what I think it could happen. So this is what I mean:
IS XL - 1 Side Torso loss, destroyed
IS OXL - 2 Side Torso losses, destroyed, only for IS OmniMechs
LFE - Two hits, destroyed

Edited by Will9761, 29 June 2023 - 01:33 PM.

[pbiggz]

Gas Guzzler, on 28 June 2023 - 03:52 PM, said:

I swear he drops this in with no context every single time an IS omni thread comes up.

Anyone who has "Battletech Purist" in their signature is going to say some out of pocket ****.

"TT is balanced for real time" is a great way to tell everyone you don't understand game design without saying you don't understand game design.

[Pixel Hunter]

the Mercury would be a fun mech for an early adopter pack

[pbiggz]

LordNothing, on 28 June 2023 - 04:38 PM, said:

heh, turns out your proposal was the same one i posted further up the thread. sort of like the urbie's std60, which you can only get by purchasing an urbie. you can take the engine out of the urbie, but you cant put it in anything but an urbie. only difference is it will be locked equipment.

what i want is a variation of engine ratings within a particular chassis in order to make more builds viable, to make up for the heavier is equipment. you wont have mechs like the gargoyle and the ice ferret, where the only weapon system you can afford to pack and use effectively is vomit.

there are lots of ways to make is omnis work.

As far as omnimechs are concerned, the engines are a black box. PGI should be able and willing to simply assign whatever ratings and stats are needed to make a mech interesting. They should be willing to do the same for clan Omnimechs too.

[Will9761]

Pixel Hunter, on 29 June 2023 - 05:41 AM, said:

the Mercury would be a fun mech for an early adopter pack

I'd partially agree with you seeing how the Mercury was the grandaddy to all Clan and IS OmniMechs given its modular systems, but it's a BattleMech, not an OmniMech. I like the way you think though.

[LordNothing]

pbiggz, on 29 June 2023 - 05:45 AM, said:

As far as omnimechs are concerned, the engines are a black box. PGI should be able and willing to simply assign whatever ratings and stats are needed to make a mech interesting. They should be willing to do the same for clan Omnimechs too.

the idea is that different variants of a chassis can have different engine types/ratings/heatsinks. you cant change the engine or the engine sinks, so yes its a black box. but if you want something else you can switch to another variant. so if you have one variant with an xl300 and another with an xl350, if you want to build a heavy weapons build, you can put the appropriate omnipods on the xl300 variant or vise versa if you want a fast build. you might also have a standard or lfe variant if you want to build a more robust build that can survive a cleaving. its kind of boring when every variant has the same engine configuration like the clans do.

[Will9761]

Also, I updated my IS OmniMech poll with an additional question. So if you have the time, please go ahead and check that out.

[Gas Guzzler]

LordNothing, on 29 June 2023 - 09:08 AM, said:

the idea is that different variants of a chassis can have different engine types/ratings/heatsinks. you cant change the engine or the engine sinks, so yes its a black box. but if you want something else you can switch to another variant. so if you have one variant with an xl300 and another with an xl350, if you want to build a heavy weapons build, you can put the appropriate omnipods on the xl300 variant or vise versa if you want a fast build. you might also have a standard or lfe variant if you want to build a more robust build that can survive a cleaving. its kind of boring when every variant has the same engine configuration like the clans do.

I think this is a separate topic TBH. It's an interesting idea worth entertaining but completely independent of IS omnis.

IS omnis can be implemented without adding this and add plenty to the game. I've done some theory crafting before, when I get home I can post some interesting possibilities.

[LordNothing]

Gas Guzzler, on 29 June 2023 - 09:35 AM, said:

I think this is a separate topic TBH. It's an interesting idea worth entertaining but completely independent of IS omnis.

IS omnis can be implemented without adding this and add plenty to the game. I've done some theory crafting before, when I get home I can post some interesting possibilities.

its at least an idea for future heroes and legendries, or other non-lore based variants.

[Gas Guzzler]

Sunder:

1 GR, 2 LPL 6 ERML, 2t (Needs modified -R config (-RP) to convert Clan weapons to IS)
3 LPL, 5 ERML, TC2, BAP, 22DHS (Needs modified -R config (-RP) to convert Clan weapons to IS)
7 LL, 17 DHS (Needs modified -R config (-RP) to convert Clan weapons to IS)
1 GR, 4LL, [1ER ML], 2t (Needs modified -R config (-RP) to convert Clan weapons to IS
or the -E for the head laser, without ERML can be done on Prime with So8, possible SO8 laser HSL quirk would allow 4 ERLL Gauss)
1 LGR, 3 ER PPC, 1.5t, 18DHS (So8 -A variant, prime candidate for PPC or ER PPC HSL+1)
1 AC20, 3 SN PPC (So8 -A variant, prime candidate for PPC family HSL+1)
1 AC10, 3 PPC (So8 -A variant)
1 AC10, 3 PPC, 1 JJ
1 AC20, 2 SNPPC, 3 SRM4 (Prime or -A SO8)
6 ERLL, TC1, 20 DHS

The Sunder hero has 23 weapons and is not possible in MWO as is, but losing 6 MGs and a CT missile would make it viable and would add ALOT of possibilities. Finally having an IS assault with more than 9 E hardpoints for one, and plenty of spaces for ballistics.

Hauptmann:

2 UAC10 2 PPC, 4t, 1 JJ, ECM
2 AC20, 2 SNPPC, 6t, ECM
2 HGR, 5 SL, 5t, ECM, JJ (Can trade JJ or ECM for more ammo)
AC20, 2 SN PPC, 3 SRM6, ECM

Raptor:
11 E Hardpoints, you can do the math

So I had only had a bit but can do more. Sunder still looks most exciting to me but Hauptmann can pack a punch with some god mounts. Would like to see a Hero hauptmann with shoulder energy god mounts. Like the Blood Asp.

[Mechwarrior2342356]

Gas Guzzler, on 29 June 2023 - 05:16 PM, said:

Raptor:
11 E Hardpoints, you can do the math

All the SLs. Ever.

I like the Mercury as an EA, wonder if the Coyotl will ever show up.

Edited by the check engine light, 29 June 2023 - 05:27 PM.

[cougurt]

i'd still love to see IS omnis added to the game, especially now that stronger quirks are on the table for the mechs that desperately need them. the owens for example could actually be viable even with its locked equipment and upgrades. give it something like 30-50% heat gen, offensive and defensive quirks as needed, and some infotech quirks for flavor and it could be fairly interesting. it's not exactly a mech i'm begging for, but at least it wouldn't be guaranteed DOA now.

[Will9761]

I agree. With all these quirks going on for different mechs, they could offset any potential problems that would have plagued them years ago.

Edited by Will9761, 01 July 2023 - 11:32 AM.

[Battlemaster56]

Yea and pgi is willing to remove fixed weapons on mechs like the adder and it's flamer, something like the firestarter (omnimech) would be a solid mech to add in the IS omni lineup strong laser boat that can carry ecm, jj and decent speed for it's weight.

[Ihlrath]

PGI hasn't considered anything cannon in what they do .... like ever. Game states its 3052, clan tech should still be vastly superior but its quite the opposite. This isn't a BT or MW game its a stompy robot game using the IP. It is absolutely not lore friendly in any way.

[Will9761]

We are actually in 3067 now, and it still boggles my mind that we don't have IS OmniMechs yet. Which is all the more reason to ask for them now. The have the OmniTech groundwork there and PGI can make fixed weapons unfixed. So it shows the flexibility PGI has to alter this game.

Edited by Will9761, 01 July 2023 - 04:18 PM.

[pbiggz]

I for one am still eagerly awaiting KursedVixen's thesis on why we cant have IS omnimechs.

[Will9761]

At this point, I can't buy the excuses of: "IS OmniMechs would break the balance of the game!", "IS OmniMechs would be hard to make.", "IS OmniMechs would be a technical nightmare." or "IS OmniMechs would be DOA."

Here are my the responses I have for those fallacies:
1."IS OmniMechs would break the balance of the game!"
A: Not really. When you consider the large array of quirks that PGI has, they can help ensure that IS Omnis can run smoothly. And if it's due to the OmniMech parts, then as established with the IS XL mechs, one hit to the side torso is all you need to take them out.

2."IS OmniMechs would be hard to make."
A: If that were true, then we never would have gotten Clan OmniMechs first. All PGI has to do is copy/paste the OmniMech system to the IS Omnis and boom. The Omni system is there, is all about being willing and able.

3. "IS OmniMechs would be a technical nightmare."
A: No they wouldn't. As stated before, all they have to do is copy/paste the clan omni system for the IS and it can be done.

4."IS OmniMechs would be DOA."
A: They would not. There are ways to work around them where they could perform better as many people had discussed: They could be given Structure and Survivability Quirks for their side torsos, PGI could make an "IS Omni XL" based on the Clan XL for IS OmniMechs exclusively or they could have Light Fusion Engine variants for Early Adopters or Add-Ons if PGI doesn't want to go the IS Omni XL route.

5. "PGI will never care to add IS OmniMechs to this game."
A: That because we have not tried yet. With the flexibility PGI has shown towards altering mechs, this is a perfect time to work on bringing interest. There's a reason, I'm working on adding in lore, giving the best IS Omnis, having people vote and gathering enough support and bringing discussion to them to show and gauge PGI's interest. If you want something hard enough, you have to work for it.

As for KursedVixen, they and anyone else are always welcome to disagree as long as they have evidence to support their claim. However, this thread is about discussing IS Omnis and gathering supporters for it and that is what I want to focus on.

Edited by Will9761, 02 July 2023 - 10:06 AM.

[Will9761]

I spoke with Russ on Twitter about adding IS OmniMechs and he said this:

At least its something, but I'll still be keeping an eye out both for any future news and on the forums for any updates.

Edited by Will9761, 05 July 2023 - 12:13 PM.

[Will9761]

Update:
Hauptmann has 392 votes
Sunder has 401 votes