24 replies to this topic

[CFC Conky]

Hello all,

First, this is NOT a rant about lights being OP, but not the complete opposite either. For many this will be old news but if it can stop even one new player from complaining about light mechs then my work will be done.

Whenever a player comes on these forums to complain about light mechs, one of the standard responses is, to paraphrase, 'go run them and see'. Now I have a lot of light mechs in my hangar but never really run them that much and to be frank, I'm not good in them at all.

Anyway, I decided to take the advice and run light mechs. Last month, out of 211 matches, 127 were in lights. My average match score is down about 100 points and I'm now I the bottom quarter of T4 from low T3.

So, what can I say about light mechs? Well, there aren't OP, that's for sure. Some are pretty strong, like the Flea, Locust, Firestarter, and Pirhana, but I also get decent results (for me) in the Commando, Osiris, Spider, and even the Huggin.

I know someone will pipe up about how great the Urbie is, and it is indeed, but I see Urbies more as confused medium mechs so imo they don't count.

Driving light mechs has taught me the importance of things like positioning and paying attention to the type of weapons my opponents have. I have a terrible habit of just charging into point-blank range in all mech classes but in lights this is often suicide so I've learned to be more patient too.

Learning to maneuver and shoot while moving at high speed has also made be better when driving other mech classes. I have to admit that running around at high speed while shooting (and actually hitting ) is huge fun and quite addictive.

Sooo, in closing, the cliché is correct, if you think light mechs are OP, go drive some for at least 100 matches and see if your opinion still stands.

They're now my favourite weight class.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 02 July 2023 - 06:29 PM.

[SafeScanner]

welcome to the family..............i suppose

[PocketYoda]

I tend to not run them often because i feel like i'm gimping myself and my team.. Every time i see a spider in my team i feel like what a wasted mech opportunity.. Those two lasers all match were so helpful.

[The Mech behind you]

Yup, I had the same experience. Expect to drop a Tier if you want to play lights. Actually I experienced a hit to my matchscores in mechs lower than 50t.

I'm going through heavies now and it started climbing. I guess I'd reach Tier 1 if I would play only assaults. So that's what the Tier list is worth as a scale for skills

[SafeScanner]

PocketYoda, on 02 July 2023 - 07:37 PM, said:

I tend to not run them often because i feel like i'm gimping myself and my team.. Every time i see a spider in my team i feel like what a wasted mech opportunity.. Those two lasers all match were so helpful.

Its not about the amount but how its used you can be suprised

that said more can always be better

[B A R D]

I've found the opposite, personally: but I'm just getting back into MWO after 4 years of being unable to play it. (So I don't know how much has changed.)

That being said: now that I've converted to HOTAS w/pedals for controlling the 'mechs, my performance in light mechs has become atrocious. >_<

[TheCaptainJZ]

It can be challenging to talk about lights without recognizing that it's the weight class with the biggest variety in the individual chassis performance and capabilities. So when people complain about lights, it's usually a few outliers and not the class as a whole. There are also players who have maximized those outlier mechs and they probably play the game a lot so you might see them more often and generalize the whole class based on your experiences. For sure, lights can be the top performer on a team. Or they can be the worse performer. It's highly variable, really. Even in this thread, the urbie was mentioned as a medium mech in disguise (Personally, I think the urbie quirks ought to be toned down a bit, armor in particular). Compare that to a Raven. Or a Flea, or an Artic Cheetah. Each one of these is played a bit different.

[Bunny Wigglesworth]

My only problem with lights is the fact that it is really hard to register hits on them. Actually hitting them isn't that hard. But whether or not those hits count in the system seems to be another thing entirely. No, I don't suck. No, it isn't just lag on my part. I fully take advantage of this when I play lights. But it is a real issue, and one that throws the balance of the game these days.

[Meep Meep]

the check engine light, on 02 July 2023 - 07:18 PM, said:

TL;DR - Ignore everything D A T A says. Anything useful he has ever said, someone else has said.

Wut? Data doesn't take his 'lights op' video rants where as a world class player he cherry picks a nice match were he mega farms some tier 3 potats any more seriously than those that watch them. It's click bait titling to drive up views like all youtube vbloggers. He hates lights because of all the classes especially at the level he plays lights are about the only mech that will cause his direspam erll/ppc+gauss vomit any problems farming away. Is data a top player? Absolutely. Is he incredibly dishonest about some of his views. Absolutely.

[RockmachinE]

I believe positioning is way more important to assaults than lights. Lights can always back away and reposition in a slow assault once you commit you commit.

[CFC Conky]

PocketYoda, on 02 July 2023 - 07:37 PM, said:

I tend to not run them often because i feel like i'm gimping myself and my team.. Every time i see a spider in my team i feel like what a wasted mech opportunity.. Those two lasers all match were so helpful.

Yup, it can certainly feel that way at times. It can certainly more work to get good damage out compared to the other weight classes, but I've also had good games with 300+ damage done and multiple kills so it can be done. It's very situational though so you have to be prepared to suffer between those good matches.

TheCaptainJZ, on 03 July 2023 - 07:54 AM, said:

It can be challenging to talk about lights without recognizing that it's the weight class with the biggest variety in the individual chassis performance and capabilities. So when people complain about lights, it's usually a few outliers and not the class as a whole. There are also players who have maximized those outlier mechs and they probably play the game a lot so you might see them more often and generalize the whole class based on your experiences. For sure, lights can be the top performer on a team. Or they can be the worse performer. It's highly variable, really. Even in this thread, the urbie was mentioned as a medium mech in disguise (Personally, I think the urbie quirks ought to be toned down a bit, armor in particular). Compare that to a Raven. Or a Flea, or an Artic Cheetah. Each one of these is played a bit different.

I generally do better in 20-25 ton light mechs; their higher mobility helps with return fire. Adders and Cougars are probably my worst performers but they can carry a lot of firepower so I'll have to spend more time in them. I've always done ok in Wolfhounds and some of the Panthers work well for me too.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 03 July 2023 - 10:29 AM.

[Meep Meep]

CFC Conky, on 03 July 2023 - 10:02 AM, said:

I generally do better in 20-25 ton light mechs; their higher mobility helps with return fire. Adders and Cougars are probably my worst performers but they can carry a lot of firepower so I'll have to spend more time in them. i've always done ok in Wolfhounds and some of the Panthers work well for me too.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Adders and cougars are some of the better lights in the game exactly because they can comfortably fit heavy ranged firepower. You treat them less as a light and more as a mobile heavy weapons turret. Roll with the push and shoot distracted mechs in the face.

Or play sniper.

cou-e

I've taken a huge shine to this one as unlike other clan er ppc fits you can just keep blasting away with little worry about heat after you fully skill out the various heat nodes and cool run.

Plus it has very good high mounts in line with the cockpit so if you can see it you can blast it while exposing only the top sliver of the mech.

Alternately you can switch the fit around a bit and get a nice little gunboat.

cou-e

cou-e

Edited by Meep Meep, 04 July 2023 - 01:33 PM.

[CFC Conky]

Meep Meep, on 03 July 2023 - 10:17 AM, said:

Adders and cougars are some of the better lights in the game exactly because they can comfortably fit heavy ranged firepower. You treat them less as a light and more as a mobile heavy weapons turret. Roll with the push and shoot distracted mechs in the face.

Or play sniper.

cou-e

I've taken a huge shine to this one as unlike other clan er ppc fits you can just keep blasting away with little worry about heat after you fully skill out the various heat nodes and cool run.

Plus it has very good high mounts in line with the cockpit so if you can see it you can blast it while exposing only the top sliver of the mech.

Alternately you can switch the fit around a bit and get a nice little gunboat.

cou-e

cou-e

Thanks Meep Meep, I'll try those.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[LordNothing]

aspiring assault pilots would benefit greatly from spending a month in lights exclusively. learn how to build them, play them, and kill assaults. once you can do that then you know what to look for when you are in an assault mech. it simple, know your enemy, and nothing is a worse enemy to an assault than a squirrel. id rather face dires in a 2:1 disadvantage.

of course there is not an assault that cant one-hit (or at least rip a leg off) a squirrel with direct fire weapons and sufficient marksmanship.

Edited by LordNothing, 03 July 2023 - 06:45 PM.

[RockmachinE]

LordNothing, on 03 July 2023 - 06:44 PM, said:

aspiring assault pilots would benefit greatly from spending a month in lights exclusively.

I disagree. With assaults the main skill is situational awareness, timing and positioning. Because of their slow speed once you commit to any sort of movement or tactical choice you usually have to go through with it and you tend to pay for your mistakes. They are very reliant on the rest of the team and are the worst class to be out of position with.

Lights are the polar opposite, you can solo, flank, sneak, support your group. You do well on your own, with the main pack or with a buddy. You can choose where to be on the battlefield and when and pretty much get to choose how you play. With an assault you don't have that luxury normally.

Practicing with a light will yield a dynamic, spontaneous playstyle which is completely unsuitable for Assaults where planned, deliberate and meticulous play is paramount.

If you want to get good at assaults you need to play heavy and slow mechs and learn the dynamics and risks that come with your extremely limited mobility. The only thing an assault pilot really needs to know about lights is not to be scared of them and not to panic if attacked, just aggressively respond and you will severely cripple, kill or chase them off. If you want to get good at assaults, play assaults. Obviously the more experience you have with all kinds of mechs the better you will be at the game overall.

If anything the best progression for a new player would actually be:
Heavy->Medium->Assault->Light

Edited by RockmachinE, 03 July 2023 - 08:23 PM.

[LordNothing]

RockmachinE, on 03 July 2023 - 08:19 PM, said:

I disagree. With assaults the main skill is situational awareness, timing and positioning. Because of their slow speed once you commit to any sort of movement or tactical choice you usually have to go through with it and you tend to pay for your mistakes. They are very reliant on the rest of the team and are the worst class to be out of position with.

Lights are the polar opposite, you can solo, flank, sneak, support your group. You do well on your own, with the main pack or with a buddy. You can choose where to be on the battlefield and when and pretty much get to choose how you play. With an assault you don't have that luxury normally.

Practicing with a light will yield a dynamic, spontaneous playstyle which is completely unsuitable for Assaults where planned, deliberate and meticulous play is paramount.

If you want to get good at assaults you need to play heavy and slow mechs and learn the dynamics and risks that come with your extremely limited mobility. The only thing an assault pilot really needs to know about lights is not to be scared of them and not to panic if attacked, just aggressively respond and you will severely cripple, kill or chase them off. If you want to get good at assaults, play assaults. Obviously the more experience you have with all kinds of mechs the better you will be at the game overall.

If anything the best progression for a new player would actually be:
Heavy->Medium->Assault->Light

while i agree with most of what you said, many benefits can be had knowing how the other half live. knowing how to handle lights is critical to running an assault well, its part of situational awareness. while you need to run the assaults to understand the mechanics of assault combat, positioning, and so on, all of that will be completely useless if your mech gets killed 3 minutes into the match. running lights gives you strong insight into the tactics they will be using against you, and for which you must develop strong counters. lights and assaults do indeed play differently, but how can you know what if you do not play both classes? simply telling assault pilots how lights work is not good enough, they must learn it first had from experience and from both perspectives.

Edited by LordNothing, 03 July 2023 - 09:14 PM.

[pbiggz]

RockmachinE, on 03 July 2023 - 09:53 AM, said:

I believe positioning is way more important to assaults than lights. Lights can always back away and reposition in a slow assault once you commit you commit.

Both of these things are true. Lights need to know how to quickly position or they splat instantly. They need to know how to quickly RE-position or they splat instantly.

Assaults need to know how to position with foresight, they need to know how to back off and take cover, and they need to know all the angles that an attacker could take.

In other words both weight classes are extremely feast-or-famine. Either you know where you need to be, and you can engage enemies at your pleasure, or you don't, and you get shredded.

[fragmented]

PocketYoda, on 02 July 2023 - 07:37 PM, said:

I tend to not run them often because i feel like i'm gimping myself and my team.. Every time i see a spider in my team i feel like what a wasted mech opportunity.. Those two lasers all match were so helpful.

I feel the wasted mech slot when I see a Raven. With my 5D I can usually put up good numbers.

[LordNothing]

B A R D, on 03 July 2023 - 06:53 AM, said:

I've found the opposite, personally: but I'm just getting back into MWO after 4 years of being unable to play it. (So I don't know how much has changed.)

That being said: now that I've converted to HOTAS w/pedals for controlling the 'mechs, my performance in light mechs has become atrocious. >_<

well theres your problem. you want to play well you need to mouse it. i still use my throttle and pedals though. modern game devs do not know how to joystick. pixel aligners demand it.

Edited by LordNothing, 04 July 2023 - 11:08 PM.

[CFC Conky]

LordNothing, on 04 July 2023 - 10:46 PM, said:

well theres your problem. you want to play well you need to mouse it. i still use my throttle and pedals though. modern game devs do not know how to joystick. pixel aligners demand it.

I do as well.

fragmented, on 04 July 2023 - 09:39 PM, said:

I feel the wasted mech slot when I see a Raven. With my 5D I can usually put up good numbers.

I get decent matches in the -5K, the energy quirks + skill tree mean I can pump a lot of damage out with a LPL.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky