325 replies to this topic

[Mechwarrior2342356]

LordNothing, on 20 August 2023 - 08:55 AM, said:

i kind of liked min ranges as something squirrels could exploit, in order to get inside the min range and attack with impunity. many an awesome died because of that. i like the exponential mechanic because it softens up threshold while still more or less providing the same behavior. i think a sigmoid curve would have been better though, giving a smother transition around the 90m point, and you could match the profile of the bigger parts of the exponential curve if you make it steep enough.

i think only the hppc has a hard minimum, i wouldn't be against that one going with the exponential curve as well as all weapons with a min range. i feel that a hard minimum is kind of a noob zapper feature, because a skilled player is going to maintain their range better.

HPPC no longer has hard min unless they changed that. Has 5 at point blank with the expo curve after to full.

LordNothing, on 20 August 2023 - 08:59 AM, said:

if anything id have made clan ecm stronger since they dont have access to stealth armor. on the is side if you dont think your ecm is strong enough you can always add stealth.

also not against nerfing ecm and adding aecm. so you can chose from a more basic lightweight option or a batteries included version for more space/tonnage. gecm is for cya and the aecm would be for team coverage.

Stealth is increasingly a non-issue in the face of highly prevalent Clan ECM overlap. Stealth mechs are usually running solo backstab plays.

Edited by the check engine light, 20 August 2023 - 09:08 AM.

[LordNothing]

Tarogato, on 19 August 2023 - 02:32 PM, said:

That said, I feel like HPPC is a little bit weak in general these days with all the armour buffs, DPS buffs, and alpha buffs. Introduction of BL doesn't really change that.

agree about the hppc. its the one i use the least. give it the exp min range mechanic and maybe some splash.

the check engine light, on 20 August 2023 - 09:06 AM, said:

HPPC no longer has hard min unless they changed that. Has 5 at point blank with the expo curve after to full.

i must have missed that patch notes then.

[Mechwarrior2342356]

LordNothing, on 20 August 2023 - 09:32 AM, said:

agree about the hppc. its the one i use the least. give it the exp min range mechanic and maybe some splash.



i must have missed that patch notes then.

Patch before this I think. Caught a light trying to underrun the HPPC minimum in my Urbie and he did a doubletake when I slapped him regardless, was pretty funny.

Edited by the check engine light, 20 August 2023 - 09:54 AM.

[JumpingHunter]

Tarogato, on 19 August 2023 - 02:32 PM, said:

Do cHLL make cERPPC obsolete? They weigh two tons less, have better damage per heat, and significantly more pinpoint damage. No. And neither will BL compete with HPPC. *They are different roles.*

I think Comparing HLL-ERPPC and BL-HPPC relations is not correct. HLL has limited range, and a VERY long cooldown and burn time, while CERPPC has great range, great speed and PPFLD. Plus HLL heats even more than CERPPC They are actually different weapons for different purpose. BL and HPPC also different weapons, but unlike HLL, BL has only 3.6 cooldown and 1.15 duration, and also heats less than HPPC, while dealing more damage. Its VERY low for a 18 damage weapon, because HPPC has no advantages over BL other than it's projectile-based nature and a BIT of range. They arent that differenr, BL is just better on all fronts.

That was my point - BL is not nearly enough punished for it's absurd damage for energy weapon - unlike balanced HLL. HPPC does fit exactly the same role as BL - heavy energy weapon with big damage, while CERPPC and HLL fit different roles - one is sniping weapon for greater ranges and one is big alpha strike weapon. BL does everything what HPPC does, but straight better, i explaine why, less cooldown, less weight, less heat, more damage, no travel time and no min range. Now REMEMBER quirks on some mechs for laser duration and you would get a weapon with about 0.8-0.7 burn time - about as much as default LL or ML.

I agree, i overestimated poptarting with HLL, but BL is not HLL. Latter is very slow and has very long duration, also has highest heat in energy weapons category. Former is not nearly as slow and has much less duration, also it doesn't generate THAT much heat - only a bit more than IS ERPPC. And if we compare CERPPC and HPPC - same story, one is a dedicated sniper weapon, the other one is not as much of a sniper weapon, but rather a heavy weapon from energy category. And if former one gets to fill it's role in clan armory uncontested, the latter one now has a neighbour that simply outclasses it. That was my point.

[JumpingHunter]

LordNothing, on 20 August 2023 - 08:55 AM, said:

i kind of liked min ranges as something squirrels could exploit, in order to get inside the min range and attack with impunity. many an awesome died because of that. i like the exponential mechanic because it softens up threshold while still more or less providing the same behavior. i think a sigmoid curve would have been better though, giving a smother transition around the 90m point, and you could match the profile of the bigger parts of the exponential curve if you make it steep enough.

i think only the hppc has a hard minimum, i wouldn't be against that one going with the exponential curve as well as all weapons with a min range. i feel that a hard minimum is kind of a noob zapper feature, because a skilled player is going to maintain their range better.

Yeah, i liked tthe Std PPC version of min range too. Again, i don't want to complain about current version, it's not THAT much different with how long PPCs take to recharge nowadays, but still, it was neat. Though current version is decent too, and relates to TT as well, since it wasn't impossible to shoot PPCs at 0 meters range, just much harder.

LordNothing, on 20 August 2023 - 09:32 AM, said:

agree about the hppc. its the one i use the least. give it the exp min range mechanic and maybe some splash.

Splash would have been nice, yeah, but i think it was very much in OK state until Binary Laser came out. Now it really needs some buffs to stay usable and not obsolete and outclassed.

[KursedVixen]

JumpingHunter, on 20 August 2023 - 10:17 AM, said:

I think Comparing HLL-ERPPC and BL-HPPC relations is not correct. HLL has limited range, and a VERY long cooldown and burn time, while CERPPC has great range, great speed and PPFLD. Plus HLL heats even more than CERPPC They are actually different weapons for different purpose. BL and HPPC also different weapons, but unlike HLL, BL has only 3.6 cooldown and 1.15 duration, and also heats less than HPPC, while dealing more damage. Its VERY low for a 18 damage weapon, because HPPC has no advantages over BL other than it's projectile-based nature and a BIT of range. They arent that differenr, BL is just better on all fronts.

That was my point - BL is not nearly enough punished for it's absurd damage for energy weapon - unlike balanced HLL. HPPC does fit exactly the same role as BL - heavy energy weapon with big damage, while CERPPC and HLL fit different roles - one is sniping weapon for greater ranges and one is big alpha strike weapon. BL does everything what HPPC does, but straight better, i explaine why, less cooldown, less weight, less heat, more damage, no travel time and no min range. Now REMEMBER quirks on some mechs for laser duration and you would get a weapon with about 0.8-0.7 burn time - about as much as default LL or ML.

I agree, i overestimated poptarting with HLL, but BL is not HLL. Latter is very slow and has very long duration, also has highest heat in energy weapons category. Former is not nearly as slow and has much less duration, also it doesn't generate THAT much heat - only a bit more than IS ERPPC. And if we compare CERPPC and HPPC - same story, one is a dedicated sniper weapon, the other one is not as much of a sniper weapon, but rather a heavy weapon from energy category. And if former one gets to fill it's role in clan armory uncontested, the latter one now has a neighbour that simply outclasses it. That was my point.

No CHLL and CERPPC have the same heat.

[Tarogato]

JumpingHunter, on 20 August 2023 - 10:17 AM, said:

HPPC has no advantages over BL other than it's projectile-based nature and a BIT of range. They arent that differenr, BL is just better on all fronts.

Let me demonstrate. Here is HPPC versus a laser with 0.976 duration (fully skilled BL will have 0.978 duration)



This difference is MASSIVE.

[simon1812]

C337Skymaster, on 18 August 2023 - 07:28 PM, said:

Not exactly. The Clans reverse engineer rotaries later on, and come up with something that's about the same weight, but considerably bulkier. HAGs are something different: they don't spit out more gauss rounds faster, like a rotary autocannon does for its respective AC rounds, it fires a fusillade of smaller projectiles, which each do much less damage, but which collectively do quite a bit more.

The closest analog to HAGs is actually MRMs. They're different weapon styles, but they've got approximately the same damage outputs in the same raw numbers and are calculated the same way on TT (1 dmg/projectile, calculated in 5 dmg clusters to speed the game along, putting out 20, 30, 40 dmg in a salvo).


To be perfectly honest, though: I really enjoyed the stand-in sound for the HAGs: just your regular gauss sound, repeated for each projectile.

The new sound has too much of a "bang" to it, and sounds more like a traditional gunpowder-propelled projectile, rather than an electromagnetically propelled one.

Edit: I was hoping for something more like this:

Hope they tone down those sparks effect, too loaded

[simon1812]

Opinions and facts are two different things btw, seeing a lot of comments suggesting folks can't tell the difference.

[C337Skymaster]

-Ramrod-, on 19 August 2023 - 09:03 AM, said:

I've been waiting for the HAGs forever! I wasn't expecting the other two but it's a nice surprise. Maybe I can build my Cloud Giant mech I made for the table top...mostly anyways. 100 tonner with dual HAG-40s with ECM and jumpjets xD. Though I think the closest mech to that will be the Stone Rhino.

You can do that on the DWF-C. You can use either the -C or -S side torsos, and nab ballistic arms (because the arms are the only places that HAG-40's will fit on a DWF).

[-Ramrod-]

Void Angel, on 20 August 2023 - 08:33 AM, said:

The Rhinos are great 'mechs, but their torsos can be isolated pretty easily, and everyone targets them preferentially. So they've been a bit feast-or-famine for me, and there are other 'mechs that can do the fire support role as well without walking around with a giant neon target over their heads. That's why I backed off playing mine in Tier 1.

Yea I seem to do very good or very bad. Doesn't seem to be any consistency. They are giant targets with easy to pinpoint torsos. Most of my games seem to be like 300+ dam or 800+ and nothing in between. Though I did get a 1200 dam game with the Koloss. Not sure what PGI could do to really address this issue.

C337Skymaster, on 20 August 2023 - 04:34 PM, said:

You can do that on the DWF-C. You can use either the -C or -S side torsos, and nab ballistic arms (because the arms are the only places that HAG-40's will fit on a DWF).

Ah yea I just looked. Hmm. Direwolf probably a better platform for it anyways. But I'm bound and determined to get the Stone Rhinos to work effectively!

[C337Skymaster]

TheCaptainJZ, on 19 August 2023 - 07:36 PM, said:

Thank you for the Rifleman hardpoint fix! I haven't played my Dao Breaker for a while, but it definitely will look visually better with the weapons now!

Oh and the mech paperdoll update? Bravo! Needed this for 10 years!

Will we see any minor updates to maps soon? I'd like to see some small changes to a number of them. Or some larger fixes to the more problematic ones.

I disagree on the visual aesthetic. We're seeing the long lower barrels replaced by the non-existent upper ones. The change improves the peeking profile, but ruins the look.

[Hauptmann Keg Steiner]

Weird ghost heat aside, why are the HAGs so hot? a 40 in TT is the same heat as an IS UAC/20 single pull, now it's almost as hot as a double tap. If someone's going to say "well they've got all that cooldown to bleed it off," I could have sworn I caught Tarogato claiming these things were meant to be midrange; who the heck is gonna bring a 6-second cooldown gun (before charge and volley time) to a midrange shootout? Let's encourage more Stone Rhinos to hide behind their team's mediums and heavies, cool.

Speaking of, when is the IS LB20X getting a crit slot reduction like the 2 and 5? Lord knows it's not because equipping 3 or 4 LB20s is seen as a problem after the Moonwalker/Gausszilla/SR-4, setting aside the extra 6-8 tons (without XLs) IS would have to deal with.

[Hawk819]

Aside from Extra Ammo, what node is going to be used to reflect the spread? Gauss? Or LB-x? Just curious. If anything my money is on LB-x.

[An6ryMan69]

More LRM hate in a game so solidly slanted against LRMs already....you guys ever going to be done kicking people when they're down?

[KursedVixen]

piloting an unskilled mech and seeing that i require radar Deprivation just to not get spammed on by Lrms makes me appricate this coming nerf to LRMs usually I wouldn't care but recently with everybody adn their mom using them.... yeah.

[martian]

KursedVixen, on 20 August 2023 - 10:37 PM, said:

piloting an unskilled mech and seeing that i require radar Deprivation just to not get spammed on by Lrms makes me appricate this coming nerf to LRMs usually I wouldn't care but recently with everybody adn their mom using them.... yeah.

Every Clan 'Mech in MWO can carry at least one AMS.

Some of them can carry two or three AMS.

Give it a try.

[KursedVixen]

martian, on 20 August 2023 - 10:42 PM, said:

Every Clan 'Mech in MWO can carry at least one AMS.

Some of them can carry two or three AMS.

Give it a try.

i don't have the room nor the omnipod for it.

[martian]

KursedVixen, on 20 August 2023 - 11:05 PM, said:

i don't have the room nor the omnipod for it.

In other words, you have decided not to use AMS (i.e. a lightweight anti-LRM system that works fully automatically), but you complain about LRMs.

Because as far as I know, every single MWO Clan OmniMech has at least one AMS-capable OmniPod available to it.

[KursedVixen]

martian, on 21 August 2023 - 12:16 AM, said:

In other words, you have decided not to use AMS (i.e. a lightweight anti-LRM system that works fully automatically), but you complain about LRMs.

Because as far as I know, every single MWO Clan OmniMech has at least one AMS-capable OmniPod available to it.

OR in other words your stating the obvious and wasting internet space and your own time....

Edited by KursedVixen, 21 August 2023 - 12:45 AM.