24 replies to this topic

[nvx 116]

give the heavy gauss more range or give nodes to reduce the time to charge them
as of now heavy guasses opimal range and dps is out gunned by every wepon on the battle field even with tcs and the skill nodes. a 200m max range with the nodes anyone outside that you are basicly carring a glorified ac 5-10 and you arnt really doing anything cause by the time you charge up the wepons are gone. heavy guass is a useless weapon because of its low dps and ammo count and low optimal range i think atleast 400m should be good enough wiggle room cause its not that over kill most wpons have that of an optmal range anyway so why cant heavy gauss have it the weapon was built for distruction in mind and plus it will make the juggernaut sell more if you guys increase the optimal range for heavy guass and have a -2 seconds off of its charge up time

[Biene Maja]

gid gud lol

[KursedVixen]

nvx 116, on 18 August 2023 - 06:58 PM, said:

give the heavy gauss more range or give nodes to reduce the time to charge them
as of now heavy guasses opimal range and dps is out gunned by every wepon on the battle field even with tcs and the skill nodes. a 200m max range with the nodes anyone outside that you are basicly carring a glorified ac 5-10 and you arnt really doing anything cause by the time you charge up the wepons are gone. heavy guass is a useless weapon because of its low dps and ammo count and low optimal range i think atleast 400m should be good enough wiggle room cause its not that over kill most wpons have that of an optmal range anyway so why cant heavy gauss have it the weapon was built for distruction in mind and plus it will make the juggernaut sell more if you guys increase the optimal range for heavy guass and have a -2 seconds off of its charge up time

The heavy guass is a short range WHACK if you can aim them 25 ONe bullet damge while the hag 30 only outdamages it if you can hit with all 6 shots and even then it's not good at range and MUCH hotter and does not fire a single slug. and can do minimal 5 damage. so unless your aim sucks the heavy gauss is superior in everything but weight and size

Edited by KursedVixen, 24 August 2023 - 08:17 AM.

[JumpingHunter]

nvx 116, on 18 August 2023 - 06:58 PM, said:

give the heavy gauss more range or give nodes to reduce the time to charge them
as of now heavy guasses opimal range and dps is out gunned by every wepon on the battle field even with tcs and the skill nodes. a 200m max range with the nodes anyone outside that you are basicly carring a glorified ac 5-10 and you arnt really doing anything cause by the time you charge up the wepons are gone. heavy guass is a useless weapon because of its low dps and ammo count and low optimal range i think atleast 400m should be good enough wiggle room cause its not that over kill most wpons have that of an optmal range anyway so why cant heavy gauss have it the weapon was built for distruction in mind and plus it will make the juggernaut sell more if you guys increase the optimal range for heavy guass and have a -2 seconds off of its charge up time

Heavy Gauss is actually in a very good state right now, because while it's optimal range is 220 meters, it's MAX range is about 660 or so. I once tried to calculate the point at which Heavy Gauss will deal 20 damage like AC20, and i came up with something like 350 meters WITHOUT any range quirks. So basically Heavy Gauss is a heavier but more convenient AC20 with insane velocity, very good pinpoint damae packed in one shot and slightly more range, about +35-40%. In general, it's very good when you need to whack somebody in a chest withbig damage to strip-off armor. Especially on mechs like Atlas or Fafnir, it's amazing yet very balanced tool for pinpoint damage. I would even argue that it's the single most balanced weapon in the entire MWO arsenal.

Meanwhile your ideas are just give it recharge time of basically an AC10 and also range of AC10. With 25 pinpoint damage. Not good balancing, try again. And why aren't you complaining about AC20 then? Because AC20 has EVERY stat worse than Heavy Gauss, and is preferable on some mechs only because it's lighter and smaller.

Edited by JumpingHunter, 25 August 2023 - 05:22 AM.

[nvx 116]

JumpingHunter, on 25 August 2023 - 05:17 AM, said:

Heavy Gauss is actually in a very good state right now, because while it's optimal range is 220 meters, it's MAX range is about 660 or so. I once tried to calculate the point at which Heavy Gauss will deal 20 damage like AC20, and i came up with something like 350 meters WITHOUT any range quirks. So basically Heavy Gauss is a heavier but more convenient AC20 with insane velocity, very good pinpoint damae packed in one shot and slightly more range, about +35-40%. In general, it's very good when you need to whack somebody in a chest withbig damage to strip-off armor. Especially on mechs like Atlas or Fafnir, it's amazing yet very balanced tool for pinpoint damage. I would even argue that it's the single most balanced weapon in the entire MWO arsenal.

Meanwhile your ideas are just give it recharge time of basically an AC10 and also range of AC10. With 25 pinpoint damage. Not good balancing, try again. And why aren't you complaining about AC20 then? Because AC20 has EVERY stat worse than Heavy Gauss, and is preferable on some mechs only because it's lighter and smaller.

because I dont use anything other than heavy guass and they feel a bit off still even though I am in the same mech day in and day out. I can see the difference between optimal range and when someone is standing 1 m from the optimal range

[Biene Maja]

So you only play one weapon system, think its underpowered without knowing the others, and cry for a buff? Okay dude...

[KursedVixen]

nvx 116, on 31 August 2023 - 08:23 PM, said:

because I dont use anything other than heavy guass and they feel a bit off still even though I am in the same mech day in and day out. I can see the difference between optimal range and when someone is standing 1 m from the optimal range

oh really you can't tell that your weapon groups change color depending on range? then you are either blind or a very very bad pilot. Try some new mechs and new weapons.

Edited by KursedVixen, 02 September 2023 - 12:18 AM.

[JumpingHunter]

nvx 116, on 31 August 2023 - 08:23 PM, said:

because I dont use anything other than heavy guass and they feel a bit off still even though I am in the same mech day in and day out. I can see the difference between optimal range and when someone is standing 1 m from the optimal range

I strongly advise you to go and try out different stuff. Try out double AC20 at least, if you love pairing two big guns so much. Or try something completely different, like energy weapons-based mech. Trust me, if you will have some experience with weapons that are used against you - you will know why did you suffer from them and how to defeat them with your beloved Heavy Gauss. Just buy a new mech, set it with some other weapons and go and try different stuff. You got so sick of playing only Heavy Gauss on one specific mech, and that's why you started to think that it's so bad - you just burned out.

[simon1812]

nvx 116, on 18 August 2023 - 06:58 PM, said:

give the heavy gauss more range or give nodes to reduce the time to charge them
as of now heavy guasses opimal range and dps is out gunned by every wepon on the battle field even with tcs and the skill nodes. a 200m max range with the nodes anyone outside that you are basicly carring a glorified ac 5-10 and you arnt really doing anything cause by the time you charge up the wepons are gone. heavy guass is a useless weapon because of its low dps and ammo count and low optimal range i think atleast 400m should be good enough wiggle room cause its not that over kill most wpons have that of an optmal range anyway so why cant heavy gauss have it the weapon was built for distruction in mind and plus it will make the juggernaut sell more if you guys increase the optimal range for heavy guass and have a -2 seconds off of its charge up time

No, MWO isnt a run & gun game, and the weapon is working as intended.

[A Nephew of Kerensky]

Oh dear, still with this one? How many times does it need to be explained that it is not an issue with the weapon, but with the user?

[Wraith 1]

HGR is my favorite weapon in the game, but it has gotten powercrept a little bit. It's only REALLY scary in pairs at short range, it locks you into a dangerously slow mech, 50 (or 80 with MLs, 85 if you paid for the Arges) isn't that impressive of an alpha anymore, and it has extremely low average DPS for its weight.

That said, it can absolutely still perform consistently in T1. It's okay for some weapons to be overspecialized, and I don't think the game would be more fun if the crazy giga instagib gun was 'meta'.

Though, now that I say that, HAG30s/40s...

[KursedVixen]

Wraith 1, on 13 September 2023 - 12:26 PM, said:

HGR is my favorite weapon in the game, but it has gotten powercrept a little bit. It's only REALLY scary in pairs at short range, it locks you into a dangerously slow mech, 50 (or 80 with MLs, 85 if you paid for the Arges) isn't that impressive of an alpha anymore, and it has extremely low average DPS for its weight.

That said, it can absolutely still perform consistently in T1. It's okay for some weapons to be overspecialized, and I don't think the game would be more fun if the crazy giga instagib gun was 'meta'.

Though, now that I say that, HAG30s/40s...

are fine stop standing around like a do do.

[Widowmaker1981]

For me, the 11 slots HGRs take mean i will never use one. That simple, really.

Im not a huge fan of gauss in the first place because of the charge time, and i cannot see a way that 25 PPFLD is worth a 18 ton 11 slot weapon, when i can get 20 PPFLD on an AC20 that can be fit into mechs with a LFE engine, has no charge mechanic and weighs 4 tons less.

[Wraith 1]

KursedVixen, on 14 September 2023 - 05:13 AM, said:

are fine stop standing around like a do do.

[JumpingHunter]

Widowmaker1981, on 14 September 2023 - 06:15 AM, said:

Im not a huge fan of gauss in the first place because of the charge time, and i cannot see a way that 25 PPFLD is worth a 18 ton 11 slot weapon, when i can get 20 PPFLD on an AC20 that can be fit into mechs with a LFE engine, has no charge mechanic and weighs 4 tons less.

That is true, and this is the balancing factor for HGR in general. It's more convenient AC20 with bigger range of decent damage (20 damage on 351 meters with no range adjustments), much less heat and insane velocity, but weights much more, takes more slots and is generally slower. I think it's very fine in it's current state, it was never meant to be a common light or medium mech weapon in a first place, and Atlas with HGR, MRM40 and 4xMLs are a real force to be scared of. But light engine with AC20 is actually a REALLY big upside of the AC, not gonna lie.

Edited by JumpingHunter, 17 September 2023 - 03:41 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

JumpingHunter, on 17 September 2023 - 03:41 AM, said:

That is true, and this is the balancing factor for HGR in general. It's more convenient AC20 with bigger range of decent damage (20 damage on 351 meters with no range adjustments), much less heat and insane velocity, but weights much more, takes more slots and is generally slower. I think it's very fine in it's current state, it was never meant to be a common light or medium mech weapon in a first place, and Atlas with HGR, MRM40 and 4xMLs are a real force to be scared of. But light engine with AC20 is actually a REALLY big upside of the AC, not gonna lie.

Yeah at 10 slots i would consider using it.

On top of all the drawbacks compared to an AC20, i forgot to mention the biggest reason for the AC20 being way better: It syncs with Snubs.

2xHGR: 36 tons, 22 slots, only STD engines. 50 PPFLD with charge time so no snap shots

AC20 + 2 Snubs: 26 tons, 14 slots, fits in arms and with LFE engines in torsos, 40 PPFLD + 10 splash, cools down faster, can be snapshot.

AC20 + 3 snubs: 32 tons, 16 slots, 50 PPFLD + 15 splash. (admittedly needs a HSL quirk)

For me, this is an absolute no brainer: HGR dead on arrival. The ONLY use i can see for them is combined with stealth armour but.. nevermind thats impossible due to the 11 slots.

(Edit: I dont consider the heat to be a disadvantage worth talking about, because Snac20 mechs run very cool and heat is absolutely not a problem for them)

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 17 September 2023 - 04:43 AM.

[JumpingHunter]

Widowmaker1981, on 17 September 2023 - 04:32 AM, said:

Yeah at 10 slots i would consider using it.

On top of all the drawbacks compared to an AC20, i forgot to mention the biggest reason for the AC20 being way better: It syncs with Snubs.

2xHGR: 36 tons, 22 slots, only STD engines. 50 PPFLD with charge time so no snap shots

AC20 + 2 Snubs: 26 tons, 14 slots, fits in arms and with LFE engines in torsos, 40 PPFLD + 10 splash, cools down faster, can be snapshot.

AC20 + 3 snubs: 32 tons, 16 slots, 50 PPFLD + 15 splash. (admittedly needs a HSL quirk)

For me, this is an absolute no brainer: HGR dead on arrival. The ONLY use i can see for them is combined with stealth armour but.. nevermind thats impossible due to the 11 slots.

(Edit: I dont consider the heat to be a disadvantage worth talking about, because Snac20 mechs run very cool and heat is absolutely not a problem for them)

Dont disagree, the meta works like that for sure, but for me HGR always was a fun and effective weapon to use. I mean, when your atlas can have 1 big ballistic weapon that actually does something, and it has a lot of gauss quirks, you really wanna take a heavies gun possible, especially if all other things like other weapon hardpoints and engine were maxed out. It just feels much more powerfun and satisfying to play with, and i noticed that a lot of players in Tier 3-2 actually get scared by a HGR shot much more than with AC20. It won't beat AC20 in overall pick rate, but damn this is a good weapon if you know how and when to use it, it can still bring a great damage, and it's just fun.

Edited by JumpingHunter, 18 September 2023 - 12:19 PM.

[nvx 116]

JumpingHunter, on 25 August 2023 - 05:17 AM, said:

Heavy Gauss is actually in a very good state right now, because while it's optimal range is 220 meters, it's MAX range is about 660 or so. I once tried to calculate the point at which Heavy Gauss will deal 20 damage like AC20, and i came up with something like 350 meters WITHOUT any range quirks. So basically Heavy Gauss is a heavier but more convenient AC20 with insane velocity, very good pinpoint damae packed in one shot and slightly more range, about +35-40%. In general, it's very good when you need to whack somebody in a chest withbig damage to strip-off armor. Especially on mechs like Atlas or Fafnir, it's amazing yet very balanced tool for pinpoint damage. I would even argue that it's the single most balanced weapon in the entire MWO arsenal.

Meanwhile your ideas are just give it recharge time of basically an AC10 and also range of AC10. With 25 pinpoint damage. Not good balancing, try again. And why aren't you complaining about AC20 then? Because AC20 has EVERY stat worse than Heavy Gauss, and is preferable on some mechs only because it's lighter and smaller.

im not talking about its max range im talking about its optimal range it needs work cause lights can shrug dual heavy gauss byt standing 300m out from it

Biene Maja, on 01 September 2023 - 09:58 AM, said:

So you only play one weapon system, think its underpowered without knowing the others, and cry for a buff? Okay dude...

im not crying for the max its the optimal range that needs work big diffence

A Child of Kerensky, on 12 September 2023 - 10:07 PM, said:

Oh dear, still with this one? How many times does it need to be explained that it is not an issue with the weapon, but with the user?

im not talking about its max range its its optmial range that needs work

[JumpingHunter]

nvx 116, on 01 December 2023 - 04:34 AM, said:

im not talking about its max range im talking about its optimal range it needs work cause lights can shrug dual heavy gauss byt standing 300m out from it

At 300 meters it will deal about 22 damage, so the difference for dual HGR at 300 meters is going to be about 6 damage, 44 instead of 50. 44 pinpoint damage with 1800 velocity. Light mechs do get much more armor than they shoud, but all weapons are struggling with killing light mechs just as much as HGR, if not more. But that is a problem with light mechs' balance, not with weapon balance. HGR in right hands can be a death sentence to anyone who is facing it. The point is that these "right hands" need to be actually good, and judging by how you repeat that 220 optimal range is horrible for HGR, without considering that it stil deals more damage than AC20 on 150% of AC20 optimal range, i think its not the HGR being bad, its just you who need some practice.

I repeat again, at 351 meters it deals 20 damage. On 300 meters it will deal about 22-21.5 damage. If you say that it's worse than AC20 at killing light mechs at 300 meters range - you are objectively wrong. Folks above got some good points about actual AC20 advantages over the HGR, but in terms of damage - there is no IS ballistic weapon that would be stronger than HGR.

Now, could you please tell me which mechs do you own and use? Is it just one Fafnir with 2xHGR, or do you actually use anything else? Because if you pilot one mech and only that mech, then you can burn out very easily.

And one more thing. If you say that HGR has a very bad optimal range, then you should rephrase it like this: "most other ballistic weapons, including clan ones, should get their range adjusted to match the strengh of the weapon as much as HGR strength match it's range". I would say that HGR is one of the most balanced weapons, not overpowered, but not weak too. If you struggle to use it - either succumb to dirty meta or learn how to use it correctly.

[ESC 907]

nvx 116, on 01 December 2023 - 04:34 AM, said:

im not talking about its max range its its optmial range that needs work

Seeing as how Max Range is dependent upon the Optimal Range, you will not adjust one without affecting the other. Or is your argument to make the HG perform like an AC20 with only a 2x Maximum Range calculation? Do you even realize that Gauss has a 3x range increment instead of 2x like any other weapon?