162 replies to this topic

[Vonbach]

VaelophisNyx, on 26 August 2023 - 11:51 PM, said:

the LRM change so far has seemed positive, if only because LRMs now can actually course-correct to follow a locked enemy. 210 base was too fast for that to work half the time. After this alteration I've seen them do it more consistently.

Lol. Nice try.

[Mark Yore]

the check engine light, on 22 August 2023 - 10:35 AM, said:

If you're going to be silly, might as well go all out. 2LRM20+2LRM20+1LRM20+2LRM15, use keyboard binds to roll through the groups, LMB for TAG. Barf out salvos, hide and cool.

I've tried the max weapons approach but you run out of ammo fairly quickly. There's also substantial issues with overheating which is why I chain fire and occasionally multi-tap to push out missiles a little faster if it's needed.

The other advantage to firing an almost continuous stream, even without locks, is that you can suppress the gauss or PPC sniper hiding behind rocks at a distance. Tourmaline, HPG Manifold and Viridian are notorious for having sniper holes that some mechs spend the entire game in, which is a great reason to choose Domination.

If you can keep a sniper occupied for substantial lengths of time it removes them from having any effect on the game.

[Weeny Machine]

Spheroid, on 19 August 2023 - 10:23 AM, said:

A nerf is generally viewed as an attempt at reducing the degree to which a specific weapon performs or the frequency it is fielded.

In patch notes past the devs thoughts were added as brief side commentaries on the purpose of said nerfs. This is not present in the cauldron era.

• Are lurms over-performing? If so using what metric?
  
• Why was velocity the chosen stat and not HP or spread?
  
• Was the intention a direct nerf and not sidegrade? AMS behavior and radar derp are untouched.

Shed clarity on this change.

I heard 2 Dire Turrets had to move during the match because they were targeted by LRMs. Snipers not being allowed camping is against the code of conduct and thus velocity was nerfed. It is also considered to reduce LRM range to 400m so that unhindered sniping is guaranteed.


oh man, maybe I should stop giving the Snipedron errr Cauldron ideas...

[foamyesque]

Hawok79, on 27 August 2023 - 12:41 AM, said:

If i want to hit the CT with a double Gaus at 500 to 600m, I need several seconds to do so, during which time i am vulnerable.
With most assauts you can't even aim properly because the controls are so spongy.(nervt into the ground)

If it consistently takes you several seconds to get a gauss volley off, you're probably not doing that great as a sniper.

Quote

With lrm you stand in cover and just have to wait for the next UAV or mark´s of your team and let it rain.It doesn't matter where I am or stand,as long as i don't have high cover I will get hit constanly.

Indirect LRM fire at any range actually does take several seconds to lock. If someone's under ECM it can be half a minute or more even with a UAV helping out. What's more, as the range boosts up, you need to track them more precisely with your recticle -- if you waver off target at all you can lose that lock you've already burned a bunch of time getting. And if they step behind a tree, it's poofed.

The only exceptions are if someone's got a TAG laser or NARC on you. If someone's pinging you with a TAG that means they're in a position where, if they'd taken a different machine, you'd be eating your choice of blue laser for focused component damage.

The problem with LRMs has always been coordinated drops with a NARC machine, which is effectively easy mode for the LRMboats barring an immediate and hard brawl push by the other side. Drop into QP piloting an LRM machine without that -- especially one of the tubeheavy no-laser Clan designs -- and let's see how well the people complaining do compared to their prior numbers.

Betcha it'll be worse.

[CherokeeRose187]

The obvious end goal is to make LRMs un-usable unless one is in a Tier 1 team with dedicated NARCers and co-ordinated firing, because we can't have tier 3 noobs making the pros look bad by using "no skill" lock on weapons...

Let's forget about the fact that to even make LRMS work in the current game already requires god-like luck/skill (mostly luck),

I've literally sat there for 20 seconds waiting for a lock to acquire... yet Kaldron Boiz still want to call them a "no skill" weapon? Getting a good score using lrms (at this point) requires amazing skill, or amazing luck.

foamyesque, on 27 August 2023 - 08:59 AM, said:

If someone's under ECM it can be half a minute or more even with a UAV helping out.

Usually targeting drops before you can get a lock, then you have to start over.

Weeny Machine, on 27 August 2023 - 06:33 AM, said:

I heard 2 Dire Turrets had to move during the match because they were targeted by LRMs. Snipers not being allowed camping is against the code of conduct and thus velocity was nerfed. It is also considered to reduce LRM range to 400m so that unhindered sniping is guaranteed.


oh man, maybe I should stop giving the Snipedron errr Cauldron ideas...

Letting a comp team decide how to mod weapon stats? Nothing could possibly go wrong with this plan...

[KursedVixen]

Hawok79, on 27 August 2023 - 12:41 AM, said:

With PPC,Gaus,and AC you have to aim and hold up.With UAC also stay on target the whole time.Specifically with CUAC that´s as good as almost impossible at a distance,if you want to hit a single componet,this takes time and you have to practice it.

If i want to hit the CT with a double Gaus at 500 to 600m, I need several seconds to do so, during which time i am vulnerable.
With most assauts you can't even aim properly because the controls are so spongy.(nervt into the ground)

Even with PPC Jumpsnipers it is not so easy to hit moving targets, anyone who can do and hit deserves it.

I can also jump, twists and take cover to prevent this to spread the damage, but then I can't shoot back either.

Damage Deal...

Decisive is that you have to get out of cover to fire.many mechs have the weapons in their arms.they have to get completely out of cover.

With lrm you stand in cover and just have to wait for the next UAV or mark´s of your team and let it rain.It doesn't matter where I am or stand,as long as i don't have high cover I will get hit constanly.

This is hardly the same.You don't have to practice or have any skill to do this, you just have to press the button. The only thing you have to pay attention to is your position.

All Lockon weapons have significant advantages in these Points.

It would be a totally different thing if you had to hold your locks by yourself or there would be the possibility to set the radas to passive like was possible in MW4.

that is true of all ballistics even the new Hyper gauss.

but Lrm doesn't aim for a specific component it spreads out so it's still not as precise but, and it requires a lock to hit faster moving targets.

Edited by KursedVixen, 27 August 2023 - 06:09 PM.

[VaelophisNyx]

Vonbach, on 27 August 2023 - 04:05 AM, said:

Lol. Nice try.

Nice dismissal of conversation you got there.

Anywho yeah LRMs seem to perform both better and slightly more balanced now that AMS works; they hit more consistently when not intercepted, and AMS doesn't feel anemic in the face of 200+ LRMs

[Vonbach]

Weeny Machine, on 27 August 2023 - 06:33 AM, said:

I heard 2 Dire Turrets had to move during the match because they were targeted by LRMs. Snipers not being allowed camping is against the code of conduct and thus velocity was nerfed. It is also considered to reduce LRM range to 400m so that unhindered sniping is guaranteed.


oh man, maybe I should stop giving the Snipedron errr Cauldron ideas...

Don't give them any ideas.

[Runecarver]

VaelophisNyx, on 28 August 2023 - 01:58 PM, said:

Nice dismissal of conversation you got there.

Anywho yeah LRMs seem to perform both better and slightly more balanced now that AMS works; they hit more consistently when not intercepted, and AMS doesn't feel anemic in the face of 200+ LRMs

Except it works too well now on the platforms that can bring 2, 3 or 4 of them. Less than 10 tons of passive systems that can work through solid terrain crippling or outright nullifying several times their weight in guns is poor design. Especially because said platforms also have quirks and can further exponentially enhance them with easier than ever access to beneficial skill nodes.

All this change does is reinforce the current paradigm that if you don't have absurd velocity quirks, you HAVE to bring more than 60/ 70 missile tubes in order for said weapon to deliver at least some consistent damage through said terrain clipping protection. Thats just limiting build diversity by making it so that only specific higher end heavies and assaults can use said weapons.

AMS was working perfectly fine and as intended before this arbitrary nerf to calm the biased cries of a few chamberpot denizens. And said individuals still won't be taking AMS.

[Ignatius Audene]

I think lrm are fine currently. I would finally get rid of the narc issue. This needs an rework. Get rid of the los keeping function and in return boost lock on speed and tracking with narc strong.

[VaelophisNyx]

genuinely? I would love for AMS to be made to care about line of sight.

[RockmachinE]

Ignatius Audene, on 29 August 2023 - 01:55 AM, said:

I think lrm are fine currently. I would finally get rid of the narc issue. This needs an rework. Get rid of the los keeping function and in return boost lock on speed and tracking with narc strong.

Narc Issue? What narc issue? Its one of the most useless systems at the moment.

[Curccu]

RockmachinE, on 30 August 2023 - 12:36 AM, said:

Narc Issue? What narc issue? Its one of the most useless systems at the moment.

Well with NARC lurms can be a real threat, without them pretty damn useless weapon system.

[martian]

Curccu, on 30 August 2023 - 12:49 AM, said:

Well with NARC lurms can be a real threat, without them pretty damn useless weapon system.

And if happens that you have NARC and somebody has LRMs ... you drop on Solaris City.

[Vellron2005]

After GAUSSZILLA, I'm still waiting for the LRM1000 Legendary.. Anything short of that is obvious favoritism of a certain playstyle by a certain group. Nuff said.

Edited by Vellron2005, 30 August 2023 - 07:58 AM.

[Tarteso]

Vellron2005, on 30 August 2023 - 07:46 AM, said:

After GAUSSZILLA, I'm still waiting for the LRM1000 Legendary.. Anything short of that is obvious favoritism of a certain playstyle by a certain group. Nuff said.

[Curccu]

martian, on 30 August 2023 - 05:51 AM, said:

And if happens that you have NARC and somebody has LRMs ... you drop on Solaris City.

Yeah been there few times with LRM lance , I think I have managed to win once in that situation...

And ofc I meant in my earlier post that NARC itself is useless **** unless you know for sure you got few lurm boats with you --> group drop or FP. Only few mechs can do narcing and lurming well itself.

Edited by Curccu, 30 August 2023 - 11:30 AM.

[KursedVixen]

because like AMS and LRMs they are almost automatic requireing little to no skill and the tier 1's and cauldron don't like no skill weapons, because they don't care about new players..... they'd rather let this game rot and never have new players come in.

[martian]

Curccu, on 30 August 2023 - 11:29 AM, said:

Yeah been there few times with LRM lance , I think I have managed to win once in that situation...

And ofc I meant in my earlier post that NARC itself is useless **** unless you know for sure you got few lurm boats with you --> group drop or FP. Only few mechs can do narcing and lurming well itself.

You are right.

[ThreeStooges]

The only thing any lrm is good at is freaking some one out with the warning. Single lrm 5 and half ton ammo is all you need. One single ams will shoot down 4 of the 5 missiles any way;you're better off just ramming some one for the "collision" damage.