162 replies to this topic

[VaelophisNyx]

KursedVixen, on 25 August 2023 - 08:04 PM, said:

did you miss the velcity quirks added to a few mechs??? LRms are alive and well i'm killed by them as if they're doing more damage.

if you're dying frequently to LRMs, you probably aren't taking cover properly, don't have AMS, ECM, or Stealth Armor
and/or were already severely damaged.

LRMs hit like a wet noodle right now.

[MechMaster059]

Bassault, on 23 August 2023 - 05:08 PM, said:

... 3 tiers below you who isn't even aiming.


... (LRMing isn't gameplay) ...

When you see a player speak like this about LRMs, you know they've never played a LRM mech to any significant degree.

[VeeOt Dragon]

exactly

[ThreeStooges]

VaelophisNyx, on 26 August 2023 - 12:06 AM, said:

if you're dying frequently to LRMs, you probably aren't taking cover properly, don't have AMS, ECM, or Stealth Armor
and/or were already severely damaged.

LRMs hit like a wet noodle right now.

She doesn't. I've spectated her a whole match on viridan bog that I was against her. I was in a narc build raven and had her narc-ed the entire match. She stood in one spot and used her flamers of her flamer/mg build to cook herself off when her mech was very fresh. The very few missiles that did hit didn't do much if any damage.

One swipe of my 3 mls took off an arm so she striped arm armor off. The team I was on was too far passive and lost that round while I got two kills kmdds but vixen died long before most of her team did and they had the balls to fight back.

[foamyesque]

MechMaster059, on 26 August 2023 - 04:28 AM, said:

When you see a player speak like this about LRMs, you know they've never played a LRM mech to any significant degree.

I *have* driven LRMs fairly frequently; one of my favourite 'mechs is a C1 Catty with LRM30. And it's way harder to make do numbers than, say, a simple Night Gyr D, or even upclose brawlers of various sorts (e.g. most of the rest of my Catapult stable, which are various varieties of SRM + other bits).

EDIT:

Like if LRMs are making you die to someone three tiers below you, imagine what you could do with them with, one would hope, your superior play skills! You'd be the terror of Tier 1, no?

Edited by foamyesque, 26 August 2023 - 04:27 PM.

[Vonbach]

Elizander, on 25 August 2023 - 08:40 AM, said:

I don't get warned when I have 2 gauss rounds heading my way either. Being sandblasted by lrms at 800m isn't the worst thing in the world.

Yes but gauss rifle sniping is "skilled play".
Face it LRM are hated by the devs and the sniper units they cater to. If they could they'd remove LRM's from the
game altogether.

Edited by Vonbach, 26 August 2023 - 04:33 PM.

[_v0rt3x_]

The velocity was too high. Before it was too easy to hit people before they have any chance to move behind cover. People trying to peek were often hit by a no skill locking weapon before being able to react. Locking weapons and rapid fire weapons both need to be less effective than direct fire weapons because they require no skill compared to direct fire weapons and would be far too easy to use when overbuffed. We've seen how prolific no skill gameplay is with the release of the Crael and other MG boats and after the buffs to MGs. We also had a problem with lrm velocity builds being too easy to use and be effective with.

[foamyesque]

iexist, on 26 August 2023 - 07:40 PM, said:

The velocity was too high. Before it was too easy to hit people before they have any chance to move behind cover. People trying to peek were often hit by a no skill locking weapon before being able to react.

If you got nailed by LRMs in a peek, it's damn good odds you could've been shot anyway. And if you're blaming getting drilled on the LRM velocity, how exactly are you gonna avoid hitscan lasers or 2km/s gauss / ERPPCs? Or even AC/20s, which travel at five times the speed?

[Novakaine]

The Blue Flashlight Gang strikes again.

[VaelophisNyx]

the LRM change so far has seemed positive, if only because LRMs now can actually course-correct to follow a locked enemy. 210 base was too fast for that to work half the time. After this alteration I've seen them do it more consistently.

[Hawok79]

With PPC,Gaus,and AC you have to aim and hold up.With UAC also stay on target the whole time.Specifically with CUAC that´s as good as almost impossible at a distance,if you want to hit a single componet,this takes time and you have to practice it.

If i want to hit the CT with a double Gaus at 500 to 600m, I need several seconds to do so, during which time i am vulnerable.
With most assauts you can't even aim properly because the controls are so spongy.(nervt into the ground)

Even with PPC Jumpsnipers it is not so easy to hit moving targets, anyone who can do and hit deserves it.

I can also jump, twists and take cover to prevent this to spread the damage, but then I can't shoot back either.

Damage Deal...

Decisive is that you have to get out of cover to fire.many mechs have the weapons in their arms.they have to get completely out of cover.

With lrm you stand in cover and just have to wait for the next UAV or mark´s of your team and let it rain.It doesn't matter where I am or stand,as long as i don't have high cover I will get hit constanly.

This is hardly the same.You don't have to practice or have any skill to do this, you just have to press the button. The only thing you have to pay attention to is your position.

All Lockon weapons have significant advantages in these Points.

It would be a totally different thing if you had to hold your locks by yourself or there would be the possibility to set the radas to passive like was possible in MW4.

[Tarteso]

Hawok79, on 27 August 2023 - 12:41 AM, said:

With PPC,Gaus,and AC you have to aim and hold up.With UAC also stay on target the whole time.Specifically with CUAC that´s as good as almost impossible at a distance,if you want to hit a single componet,this takes time and you have to practice it.

If i want to hit the CT with a double Gaus at 500 to 600m, I need several seconds to do so, during which time i am vulnerable.
With most assauts you can't even aim properly because the controls are so spongy.(nervt into the ground)

Even with PPC Jumpsnipers it is not so easy to hit moving targets, anyone who can do and hit deserves it.

I can also jump, twists and take cover to prevent this to spread the damage, but then I can't shoot back either.

Damage Deal...

Decisive is that you have to get out of cover to fire.many mechs have the weapons in their arms.they have to get completely out of cover.

With lrm you stand in cover and just have to wait for the next UAV or mark´s of your team and let it rain.It doesn't matter where I am or stand,as long as i don't have high cover I will get hit constanly.

This is hardly the same.You don't have to practice or have any skill to do this, you just have to press the button. The only thing you have to pay attention to is your position.

All Lockon weapons have significant advantages in these Points.

It would be a totally different thing if you had to hold your locks by yourself or there would be the possibility to set the radas to passive like was possible in MW4.

Target acquisition in MW4 was restricted to LOS, but didn´t need targets being in radar at all. Moreover, BAP was a counter for ECM. Besides, target acquisition was waaaaay faster and "fire and forget". Also, they could be aimed to specific components and had less dispersion.
Despite all these, and the more limited counters to missile rains I don´t remember people babycrying about "low skill", "lurmaggedons" and "aimbots" all the time in the forums, because like in MWO, any direct fire weapons were more effective.

MWO implemetation of long range missile systems is way weaker than all the above, from the begining, in spite of the supposed advantage of sharing targets. So, using MW4 missile mechanics as example is misleading.

VaelophisNyx, on 26 August 2023 - 11:51 PM, said:

the LRM change so far has seemed positive, if only because LRMs now can actually course-correct to follow a locked enemy. 210 base was too fast for that to work half the time. After this alteration I've seen them do it more consistently.

C'mon...

Edited by Tarteso, 27 August 2023 - 02:16 AM.

[Obelix drives an Atlas]

VaelophisNyx, on 26 August 2023 - 11:51 PM, said:

the LRM change so far has seemed positive, if only because LRMs now can actually course-correct to follow a locked enemy. 210 base was too fast for that to work half the time. After this alteration I've seen them do it more consistently.

people could at least put SOME effort into making their alts more convincing.

[MechMaster059]

Hawok79, on 27 August 2023 - 12:41 AM, said:

...
With lrm you stand in cover and just have to wait for the next UAV or mark´s of your team and let it rain.It doesn't matter where I am or stand,as long as i don't have high cover I will get hit constanly.

This is hardly the same.You don't have to practice or have any skill to do this, you just have to press the button. The only thing you have to pay attention to is your position.

Another person who obviously has never played a LRM mech.

You just "press the button" and you hit with your LRMs? That easy eh? LOL.

[Vonbach]

VaelophisNyx, on 26 August 2023 - 11:51 PM, said:

the LRM change so far has seemed positive, if only because LRMs now can actually course-correct to follow a locked enemy. 210 base was too fast for that to work half the time. After this alteration I've seen them do it more consistently.

Lol. Nice try.

[Mark Yore]

the check engine light, on 22 August 2023 - 10:35 AM, said:

If you're going to be silly, might as well go all out. 2LRM20+2LRM20+1LRM20+2LRM15, use keyboard binds to roll through the groups, LMB for TAG. Barf out salvos, hide and cool.

I've tried the max weapons approach but you run out of ammo fairly quickly. There's also substantial issues with overheating which is why I chain fire and occasionally multi-tap to push out missiles a little faster if it's needed.

The other advantage to firing an almost continuous stream, even without locks, is that you can suppress the gauss or PPC sniper hiding behind rocks at a distance. Tourmaline, HPG Manifold and Viridian are notorious for having sniper holes that some mechs spend the entire game in, which is a great reason to choose Domination.

If you can keep a sniper occupied for substantial lengths of time it removes them from having any effect on the game.

[Weeny Machine]

Spheroid, on 19 August 2023 - 10:23 AM, said:

A nerf is generally viewed as an attempt at reducing the degree to which a specific weapon performs or the frequency it is fielded.

In patch notes past the devs thoughts were added as brief side commentaries on the purpose of said nerfs. This is not present in the cauldron era.

• Are lurms over-performing? If so using what metric?
  
• Why was velocity the chosen stat and not HP or spread?
  
• Was the intention a direct nerf and not sidegrade? AMS behavior and radar derp are untouched.

Shed clarity on this change.

I heard 2 Dire Turrets had to move during the match because they were targeted by LRMs. Snipers not being allowed camping is against the code of conduct and thus velocity was nerfed. It is also considered to reduce LRM range to 400m so that unhindered sniping is guaranteed.


oh man, maybe I should stop giving the Snipedron errr Cauldron ideas...

[foamyesque]

Hawok79, on 27 August 2023 - 12:41 AM, said:

If i want to hit the CT with a double Gaus at 500 to 600m, I need several seconds to do so, during which time i am vulnerable.
With most assauts you can't even aim properly because the controls are so spongy.(nervt into the ground)

If it consistently takes you several seconds to get a gauss volley off, you're probably not doing that great as a sniper.

Quote

With lrm you stand in cover and just have to wait for the next UAV or mark´s of your team and let it rain.It doesn't matter where I am or stand,as long as i don't have high cover I will get hit constanly.

Indirect LRM fire at any range actually does take several seconds to lock. If someone's under ECM it can be half a minute or more even with a UAV helping out. What's more, as the range boosts up, you need to track them more precisely with your recticle -- if you waver off target at all you can lose that lock you've already burned a bunch of time getting. And if they step behind a tree, it's poofed.

The only exceptions are if someone's got a TAG laser or NARC on you. If someone's pinging you with a TAG that means they're in a position where, if they'd taken a different machine, you'd be eating your choice of blue laser for focused component damage.

The problem with LRMs has always been coordinated drops with a NARC machine, which is effectively easy mode for the LRMboats barring an immediate and hard brawl push by the other side. Drop into QP piloting an LRM machine without that -- especially one of the tubeheavy no-laser Clan designs -- and let's see how well the people complaining do compared to their prior numbers.

Betcha it'll be worse.

[CherokeeRose187]

The obvious end goal is to make LRMs un-usable unless one is in a Tier 1 team with dedicated NARCers and co-ordinated firing, because we can't have tier 3 noobs making the pros look bad by using "no skill" lock on weapons...

Let's forget about the fact that to even make LRMS work in the current game already requires god-like luck/skill (mostly luck),

I've literally sat there for 20 seconds waiting for a lock to acquire... yet Kaldron Boiz still want to call them a "no skill" weapon? Getting a good score using lrms (at this point) requires amazing skill, or amazing luck.

foamyesque, on 27 August 2023 - 08:59 AM, said:

If someone's under ECM it can be half a minute or more even with a UAV helping out.

Usually targeting drops before you can get a lock, then you have to start over.

Weeny Machine, on 27 August 2023 - 06:33 AM, said:

I heard 2 Dire Turrets had to move during the match because they were targeted by LRMs. Snipers not being allowed camping is against the code of conduct and thus velocity was nerfed. It is also considered to reduce LRM range to 400m so that unhindered sniping is guaranteed.


oh man, maybe I should stop giving the Snipedron errr Cauldron ideas...

Letting a comp team decide how to mod weapon stats? Nothing could possibly go wrong with this plan...

[KursedVixen]

Hawok79, on 27 August 2023 - 12:41 AM, said:

With PPC,Gaus,and AC you have to aim and hold up.With UAC also stay on target the whole time.Specifically with CUAC that´s as good as almost impossible at a distance,if you want to hit a single componet,this takes time and you have to practice it.

If i want to hit the CT with a double Gaus at 500 to 600m, I need several seconds to do so, during which time i am vulnerable.
With most assauts you can't even aim properly because the controls are so spongy.(nervt into the ground)

Even with PPC Jumpsnipers it is not so easy to hit moving targets, anyone who can do and hit deserves it.

I can also jump, twists and take cover to prevent this to spread the damage, but then I can't shoot back either.

Damage Deal...

Decisive is that you have to get out of cover to fire.many mechs have the weapons in their arms.they have to get completely out of cover.

With lrm you stand in cover and just have to wait for the next UAV or mark´s of your team and let it rain.It doesn't matter where I am or stand,as long as i don't have high cover I will get hit constanly.

This is hardly the same.You don't have to practice or have any skill to do this, you just have to press the button. The only thing you have to pay attention to is your position.

All Lockon weapons have significant advantages in these Points.

It would be a totally different thing if you had to hold your locks by yourself or there would be the possibility to set the radas to passive like was possible in MW4.

that is true of all ballistics even the new Hyper gauss.

but Lrm doesn't aim for a specific component it spreads out so it's still not as precise but, and it requires a lock to hit faster moving targets.

Edited by KursedVixen, 27 August 2023 - 06:09 PM.