49 replies to this topic

[pbiggz]

Kiran Yagami, on 25 August 2023 - 11:27 AM, said:

Even after fixing the HSL, the binary laser stalker is going to be way overtuned. 4x binaries on that mech is unbelievably strong.

Its hot is what it is.

[Big MO]

Kiran Yagami, on 25 August 2023 - 11:27 AM, said:

Even after fixing the HSL, the binary laser stalker is going to be way overtuned. 4x binaries on that mech is unbelievably strong.

Is it strong? Yes, without a doubt. I ran it most of my games last night. Those 4 binary laser cannon up in the high arm mounts work really well. But it will lose some of its effectiveness as folks understand how to attack it. Just shoot the arms - there is only about 60 points of armor on them and they are very easy to isolate.

[R Valentine]

pbiggz, on 25 August 2023 - 11:53 AM, said:

Its hot is what it is.

So were mixed LPL, HLL builds before the ERML change, but that doesn't really matter when you can strip off a component in a single volley. You start the game way ahead when you can just burn off entire side torsos with one attack. That makes the weapon combo extremely strong.

[VeeOt Dragon]

i think they balance out just fine. the sweet spot seems to be 2 BLCs as anything more seems to run to hot for my liking (especially if paired with something else.) been testing with two builds and neither has the tonnage to run more than that with enough heat sinks to keep things manageable. they seem tailor made for mechs with limited hard points. once they fix the HSL issue i think they will be just fine. BLCs take up the same amount of slots as 2 LLs so it still limits how many you can carry and still have ok heat management.

the two builds i have been toying with is a 2 BLC Jester and a rebuild of my annoyance Urbie (1 BLC, 3 MGs) both seem to do just fine damage wise though i have been having trouble securing kills with them. pretty good on the KMDD just rarely get the kill shot.

[pbiggz]

Kiran Yagami, on 26 August 2023 - 06:45 AM, said:

So were mixed LPL, HLL builds before the ERML change, but that doesn't really matter when you can strip off a component in a single volley. You start the game way ahead when you can just burn off entire side torsos with one attack. That makes the weapon combo extremely strong.

You can’t alpha 4 on anything other than the largest mechs and once the HSL gets fixed you won’t be able to do it at all. 2 is just like firing 4 larges and that’s not an unheard of alpha. It would be disingenuous to say this weapon isn’t a buff to IS laser vomit but equally disingenuous to suggest that 2 blazer alphas are overturned. Quite simply, you’re wrong.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Blazers, post HSL will be good only if duration stays around 1.2-1.1.

Only real issue is that they make 4 LL builds obsolete on heavy mechs, 1 less ton each BLC, same podspace, but relatively less heat.

Mediums and lights will be a rare thing with BLC, snubs and SRM/MRM will still be meta on IS lights and mediums.

HPPC are still too out of place in the PPC arena, and X-Pulse as is are very.. meh..

[pbiggz]

X pulses (aside from the medium, which is closest to OK) are anemic for sure. Not nearly enough throughput for the facetime required.

[An6ryMan69]

Don't see the BLaser as OP, good, but not OP.

I do like them, but even in the semi-infamous 5x BLaser Stalker build I have gotten my *** handed to me by classic laservomit builds on both Hellbringers and Ebon Jags, and those were in straight up 1v1 contests.

The size and heat of Blasers also means they are not that easy to balance out effectively in mech builds. The Clans still have WAY more flexibility in energy builds.

[CFC Conky]

An6ryMan69, on 28 August 2023 - 08:20 AM, said:

Don't see the BLaser as OP, good, but not OP.

I do like them, but even in the semi-infamous 5x BLaser Stalker build I have gotten my *** handed to me by classic laservomit builds on both Hellbringers and Ebon Jags, and those were in straight up 1v1 contests.

The size and heat of Blasers also means they are not that easy to balance out effectively in mech builds. The Clans still have WAY more flexibility in energy builds.

Yup, Clan can still out-alpha IS when it comes to laser vomit.

Still, on mechs like the GHR-5H, RGH-3A, or TDR-9S, the BLC is a nice addition to their arsenal.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[KursedVixen]

Cyborne Elemental, on 26 August 2023 - 09:51 AM, said:

Blazers, post HSL will be good only if duration stays around 1.2-1.1.

Only real issue is that they make 4 LL builds obsolete on heavy mechs, 1 less ton each BLC, same podspace, but relatively less heat.

Mediums and lights will be a rare thing with BLC, snubs and SRM/MRM will still be meta on IS lights and mediums.

HPPC are still too out of place in the PPC arena, and X-Pulse as is are very.. meh..

i doubt they will change the duration they will just fix the typo that is the ghost heat limit,

Big MO, on 25 August 2023 - 04:23 PM, said:

Is it strong? Yes, without a doubt. I ran it most of my games last night. Those 4 binary laser cannon up in the high arm mounts work really well. But it will lose some of its effectiveness as folks understand how to attack it. Just shoot the arms - there is only about 60 points of armor on them and they are very easy to isolate.

flamers if you can get close

[Weeny Machine]

TheCaptainJZ, on 25 August 2023 - 07:37 AM, said:

Binary laser needs it's own HSL category and not be merged into Large Laser.

Exactly. If they are together in the same group, large lasers are really dead in the water

[TheCaptainJZ]

On that note, the new Stalker that's in the tournament pack lets me put on 4 large lasers without a ghost heat penalty but not 4 binary lasers. I tested the heat of 4 large lasers, but not 4 binary lasers in the testing grounds so I guess I can't confirm for sure, but the warning prompt in the mechlab allowed 4 LL. There was no quirk listed for any HSL. Or did I miss something?

[Weeny Machine]

TheCaptainJZ, on 28 August 2023 - 10:41 AM, said:

On that note, the new Stalker that's in the tournament pack lets me put on 4 large lasers without a ghost heat penalty but not 4 binary lasers. I tested the heat of 4 large lasers, but not 4 binary lasers in the testing grounds so I guess I can't confirm for sure, but the warning prompt in the mechlab allowed 4 LL. There was no quirk listed for any HSL. Or did I miss something?

There is so much power creep in this game and the TTK frikkin low compared to earlier times, so why in the world would you want to shoot 4 Binaries without ghost heat? /sigh

[Benjamin357]

Quick way to balance the new Binary Laser Cannon.

- Allow the Binary Laser Cannon to be mounted on the Spider 5v, and the Locust 1v
- Adjust the heat on it so that more than two Binary Laser Cannons fired at the same time instantly destroys any mech firing them.

[KursedVixen]

make the heat on the binary 14.5 like in TT

[foamyesque]

TheCaptainJZ, on 28 August 2023 - 10:41 AM, said:

On that note, the new Stalker that's in the tournament pack lets me put on 4 large lasers without a ghost heat penalty but not 4 binary lasers. I tested the heat of 4 large lasers, but not 4 binary lasers in the testing grounds so I guess I can't confirm for sure, but the warning prompt in the mechlab allowed 4 LL. There was no quirk listed for any HSL. Or did I miss something?

Standard Sphere LL has a HSL of 4. Right now BLCs have a HSL of 3, and it's intended to be 2. So the mechlab is reporting what's currently in the game correctly.

pbiggz, on 26 August 2023 - 07:57 AM, said:

You can’t alpha 4 on anything other than the largest mechs and once the HSL gets fixed you won’t be able to do it at all.

The Stalker'll still be able to do it without ghost heat at all, and there's a few other 'mechs with HSL+1 quirks that would only eat one ghost heat penalty and therefore may still be able to alpha four without overheating.



Personally, I've been experimenting a bit with BLC + LL builds. Timed right to avoid ghost heat the burns end reasonably sync'd, but the fit is hot and heavy. 2 BLC + 2 LL is workable on a variety of machines and gets you a respectable laser alpha for Sphere machines at good range; 2 BLC + 4 LL is extremely difficult to keep cool -- I was able to get a workable fit on the Annihilator 1E -- and very unforgiving if you rush your LL shot. It is, however, Clan lasvomit damage done at Clan lasvomit ranges, which is pretty nice to see.

Edited by foamyesque, 28 August 2023 - 03:53 PM.

[pbiggz]

foamyesque, on 28 August 2023 - 03:53 PM, said:

The Stalker'll still be able to do it without ghost heat at all, and there's a few other 'mechs with HSL+1 quirks that would only eat one ghost heat penalty and therefore may still be able to alpha four without overheating.

Personally, I've been experimenting a bit with BLC + LL builds. Timed right to avoid ghost heat the burns end reasonably sync'd, but the fit is hot and heavy. 2 BLC + 2 LL is workable on a variety of machines and gets you a respectable laser alpha for Sphere machines at good range; 2 BLC + 4 LL is extremely difficult to keep cool -- I was able to get a workable fit on the Annihilator 1E -- and very unforgiving if you rush your LL shot. It is, however, Clan lasvomit damage done at Clan lasvomit ranges, which is pretty nice to see.

That's acceptable to me. IS laservomit needed some more options to compete with clan laservom. the HSL of 3 was a bit much, but a few specific mechs being able to run 4 blazers (if you build around them) is fine to me.

[Ignatius Audene]

The problem is. If U do 2 BCL and 2 LL why not just go 3 BCL?. Only reason for LL currently is where U can't fit an BCL. Like 1bcl+1ll as an replacement /tonnage save for 3ll in the medium tonnage area.. Binary being fine just shows how badly regular LL need an buff to make them viable outside this niche

[foamyesque]

Ignatius Audene, on 29 August 2023 - 01:48 AM, said:

The problem is. If U do 2 BCL and 2 LL why not just go 3 BCL?. Only reason for LL currently is where U can't fit an BCL. Like 1bcl+1ll as an replacement /tonnage save for 3ll in the medium tonnage area.. Binary being fine just shows how badly regular LL need an buff to make them viable outside this niche

Two reasons: Crit distribution and HSL. The current HSL of 3 is unintended -- it will be patched down to 2 in September's patch at the latest, unless a hotfix comes in early.

[Meep Meep]

True. You get double the crit chance with 2x larges vs one blazer. Plus adding in a large to a blazer stack is the natural progression of building a vomit fit. 3x blazers might be too much heat or fittings but 2x blazers and a large might work perfectly.