113 replies to this topic

[pbiggz]

It is worth noting, as usual, that many stomps are not really stomps. This game is bad at presenting team performance as anything other than total number of bad robots exploded. If the game totalled up all the armor each team had, and showed how much armor each team had left at the end of the match, even a 12-2 stomp might actually look more like an even game, just one team might have been better at turning damage into kills than the other.

This does not mean stomps don't happen, but some matches that look like stomps, really aren't.

[RickySpanish]

KursedVixen, on 28 August 2023 - 05:58 AM, said:

How do you know how many that don't?

Almost nobody uses aimbots. In fact I personally never seen one in use in game, though have seen TWO highly suspect videos in the ENTIRE time I have played MWO. How do I know people don't aimbot? Because even in T1 people spend more time being tactically alert - checking the map, team communication etc. than aiming. Ha ha that's a lie. People aren't tactically alert either.

[KursedVixen]

RickySpanish, on 28 August 2023 - 06:38 AM, said:

Almost nobody uses aimbots. In fact I personally never seen one in use in game, though have seen TWO highly suspect videos in the ENTIRE time I have played MWO. How do I know people don't aimbot? Because even in T1 people spend more time being tactically alert - checking the map, team communication etc. than aiming. Ha ha that's a lie. People aren't tactically alert either.

Some people do I'm not sure of the exact numbers but I hope it's very few.

[An6ryMan69]

pbiggz, on 28 August 2023 - 05:02 AM, said:

It is worth noting, as usual, that many stomps are not really stomps. This game is bad at presenting team performance as anything other than total number of bad robots exploded. If the game totalled up all the armor each team had, and showed how much armor each team had left at the end of the match, even a 12-2 stomp might actually look more like an even game, just one team might have been better at turning damage into kills than the other.

This does not mean stomps don't happen, but some matches that look like stomps, really aren't.

Agreed.

Final kill total doesn't always represent how close the match was. Had a couple of matches lately where several minutes into it, things were still 0-0, even though there was furious fighting going on, and everybody on the field was taking damage. Almost ten minutes into the matches before anyone died, and then momentum inevitably lead to a 12-2 final kill score, but the actual matches were major nailbiters that could have gone either way. Lopsided score did not represent how crazy close the teams were, and losing even one mech on one side cost them the matches in the end.

[crazytimes]

RickySpanish, on 28 August 2023 - 06:38 AM, said:

Almost nobody uses aimbots. In fact I personally never seen one in use in game, though have seen TWO highly suspect videos in the ENTIRE time I have played MWO. How do I know people don't aimbot? Because even in T1 people spend more time being tactically alert - checking the map, team communication etc. than aiming. Ha ha that's a lie. People aren't tactically alert either.

I saw one "almost definite" aimbot during this, and they were mostly shooting the terrain between them and the targets they kept snapping to. They were not positively influencing match outcomes.

[Vxheous]

KursedVixen, on 28 August 2023 - 05:07 AM, said:

we're talking about newer players here most of which cannot aim. not your tier 2 matches were everybody has eagle eyes and aimbots.

I hate to tell you in case you've never experienced Tier 1 play, but most of Tier 1 can't really aim either.

[MisterSomaru]

RickySpanish, on 28 August 2023 - 06:38 AM, said:

Almost nobody uses aimbots. In fact I personally never seen one in use in game, though have seen TWO highly suspect videos in the ENTIRE time I have played MWO. How do I know people don't aimbot? Because even in T1 people spend more time being tactically alert - checking the map, team communication etc. than aiming. Ha ha that's a lie. People aren't tactically alert either.

I've seen aimbots before, and it's very... odd looking. Incredibly snappy and unnatural. Sometimes server makes things look sus depending on ping and connection, but you can tell since the movement is delayed. You can spectate someone good at the game, and it'll look smoother than say, an Aimbot, which is incredibly mechanical and instant.

Vxheous, on 28 August 2023 - 05:12 PM, said:

I hate to tell you in case you've never experienced Tier 1 play, but most of Tier 1 can't really aim either.

can confirm, am Tier 1, cannot aim

[Curccu]

crazytimes, on 27 August 2023 - 01:19 PM, said:

Absolutely. This wasn't about the time it took or my curiosity if match score is capped at 999, it was about seeing if new players are actually facing "all tier 1 comp groups" from tier 4.

I firmly believe MM is almost exclusively working with the 3 tier gap, and tier 3 are much more likely to see tier 4 players than tier 1 in their matches. The same people who say PSR is their goal are the ones who claim they are being artificially held back by evil MM.

My words of wisdom are either play for fun and enjoy yourself, or play for progress and accept personal responsibility for your own outcomes.

I did similar test June 22 because silly claims at forums.... stuff like T1 is same as T5, only MG mechs in T5, etc. etc. etc.
I limited myself to trial lights (and oh boy those were bad even at tier5) and urbanmechs (bought one as soon as I could afford, I think there was some beachparty or something running at the time so pretty quick) and never even got it fully skilled.

Well results were... claims were total BS according to that short test.
I didn't bother to play more 17 games because I did not enjoy seal clubbing what it was even with mech selection that I allowed myself to play.

[foamyesque]

Meep Meep, on 27 August 2023 - 05:19 PM, said:

Losing psr however is only due to one thing. Poor personal performance. Period.

It's certainly the largest dictator of it, but it's disingenuous to pretend like your team doesn't matter. Being on the winning side is a big boost to the PSR determination -- I've gotten ups for matches that I really shouldn't've, because I was on the winning team, and downs on matches where I objectively performed much better than those wins, but because the team couldn't stand up, it ended in a loss.

So like, if you do mediocre consistently, what your team manages to achieve is a big difference-maker. And that's before you get into things like the snowball effect where you can pile up more damage if your team is winning because there's fewer people shooting back.

[Meep Meep]

Being on the winning team can also be a detriment if they are farming everything before you can get in any meaningful damage. I find some of my biggest scoring games are on the losing end because I had plenty of time to farm damage. Gotta earn that bridesmaid award somehow.

[Curccu]

RickySpanish, on 28 August 2023 - 06:38 AM, said:

Almost nobody uses aimbots. In fact I personally never seen one in use in game, though have seen TWO highly suspect videos in the ENTIRE time I have played MWO. How do I know people don't aimbot? Because even in T1 people spend more time being tactically alert - checking the map, team communication etc. than aiming. Ha ha that's a lie. People aren't tactically alert either.

I have seen one, fellow headshotted at least once each game usually dual gauss and lazors from half a click away but ban hammer ended that. Others few others I have suspected but nothing that clear. Total ~5 players since my closed beta.

[Vieterihiiri]

I have been playing for couple of years now, currently on the slow slow grind through Tier 2, sometimes asking myself why do I even bother anymore. But since you cannot escape the arrow of judgement, even if you hide the tier, I somehow feel the compulsion to claw myself upwards. Match quality has noticeably gone down since making it to Tier 2, but still I persist for some reason. The mandatory rating system seems to bring out the worse in me. The game is still fun and enjoyable but there is this undercurrent of frustration with it. I made an alt account and disabled the tier. Without it the experience felt empty - like there was no point to it, nothing to fight for.

Edited by Vieterihiiri, 01 September 2023 - 10:07 AM.

[KursedVixen]

Vxheous, on 28 August 2023 - 05:12 PM, said:

I hate to tell you in case you've never experienced Tier 1 play, but most of Tier 1 can't really aim either.

I wonder i saw a guy snap right to me after i mg'd him.

[Duke Falcon]

Vxheous, on 28 August 2023 - 05:12 PM, said:

I hate to tell you in case you've never experienced Tier 1 play, but most of Tier 1 can't really aim either.

Wow. Just wow.
How could one climb that high w\o aiming?

Question: what the hell is an aimbot exactly and how may you spot if one use it?
I heard many players accused other players using aimbots in FP. I started to wonder the whole thing...

[Thiccacuga]

Duke Falcon, on 01 September 2023 - 10:25 AM, said:

Wow. Just wow.
How could one climb that high w\o aiming?

Question: what the hell is an aimbot exactly and how may you spot if one use it?
I heard many players accused other players using aimbots in FP. I started to wonder the whole thing...

The trick here is to not consider PSR whatsoever as a true indicator of whether someone's good or not. I can personally attest that at T2, the amount of idiots exponentially increase as if tiers are more relative to what is commonly known as the Dunning-Kreuger effect.

[1Exitar1]

One of my very first matches, way back when, there were Tier 1 players. I was still a cadet and wondered aloud how a cadet was getting matched into Tier 1 matches. I tried staying with the group, but being one of my first matches, I didn't fair well. This happened a couple of more times, but I quickly advanced to T3 and faced players more my own level.
Now I can't seem to make up my mind if I will be Tier 1 or 2 because I keep going up and down.

[Vieterihiiri]

Back in my cadet days I didn’t have a faintest clue about who was on what tier, everyone was better than me, and I was occupied with the hunt to get my very first kill in a match - and developing a mad crush on rotary autocannons.

Edited by Vieterihiiri, 01 September 2023 - 10:06 PM.

[crazytimes]

1Exitar1, on 01 September 2023 - 08:09 PM, said:

One of my very first matches, way back when, there were Tier 1 players. I was still a cadet and wondered aloud how a cadet was getting matched into Tier 1 matches. I tried staying with the group, but being one of my first matches, I didn't fair well. This happened a couple of more times, but I quickly advanced to T3 and faced players more my own level.
Now I can't seem to make up my mind if I will be Tier 1 or 2 because I keep going up and down.

Given the only way to know for sure.what tier someone is to recognise them from the forum or streaming where they show their tier, I'm impressed you recognised multiple in your very first match.

As I've said in this thread- just because there is a group of 4 players with the same tag doesn't mean they are "tier 1".

[1Exitar1]

crazytimes, on 01 September 2023 - 10:09 PM, said:

Given the only way to know for sure.what tier someone is to recognise them from the forum or streaming where they show their tier, I'm impressed you recognised multiple in your very first match.

As I've said in this thread- just because there is a group of 4 players with the same tag doesn't mean they are "tier 1".

I had been watching Youtube videos, mainly Sean Young and TTB. My first match had Sean, Evin and Warboss on my team.

[Horseman]

martian, on 26 August 2023 - 11:38 PM, said:

Do you remember old - well, one player - with his regular threads: "Everybody is conspiring to keep me down!!!!!? Low players!!! Top players!!??!! PGI!!! Matchmaker!!! Everything! Myself am a awesome pilot."

Dogg? Far from the only one though.

Tarl Cabot, on 27 August 2023 - 07:44 AM, said:

Prior to the PSR reset in June/July 2020, anyone could make their way to Tier 1 (shudders) because the PSR was not even close to being a zero-sum setup.

... and there were still people who couldn't cut it even then.

KursedVixen, on 28 August 2023 - 05:07 AM, said:

your tier 2 matches were everybody has eagle eyes and aimbots.

KursedVixen, on 28 August 2023 - 05:58 AM, said:

How do you know how many that don't?

He doesn't need to. You asserted that "everybody" does, the burden of proving your assertion is on you.

Duke Falcon, on 01 September 2023 - 10:25 AM, said:

How could one climb that high w\o aiming?

LRMs.

Duke Falcon, on 01 September 2023 - 10:25 AM, said:

Question: what the hell is an aimbot exactly and how may you spot if one use it?
I heard many players accused other players using aimbots in FP. I started to wonder the whole thing...

It's a piece of third party software that automates aiming, often by taking information about enemy character positions that the game has but that isn't necessarily visible to the player.
As a spectator you can notice their cursor moving in an unnatural way and following hitboxes (esp head) on mechs that are entirely in cover. Aimbotters also can make very precise shots with no time needed to actually aim at the target