107 replies to this topic

[Weeny Machine]

Bassault, on 02 September 2023 - 04:57 PM, said:

Because they usually weigh a lot less, so brawlers can have more weapons that are tonnage efficient, and these weapons always out DPS longer ranged weapons of the same tonnage.


30-35 tons lights are some the most powerful and meta mechs in the entire game. Firestarters and Incubi in particular are quickplay smashing mechs. Both have really good mounts, and the firestarter can poptart really well. The incubus is still strong with 2 HLL 4 LMG. Both are even used extensively in comp. Srm6+a Kit Foxes are also really good in quickplay, as with 6 ermed with ecm. I think that you should consider that the problem may be with you and not the class of mechs.
Dire wolves and Annihilators do not twist like fat ballerinas. They twist like icebergs and if you took the time to play them you'd understand. Anything lower in weight than them usually twists faster but they usually sacrifice a lot in some other department, whether it be in firepower or mounts.


This is not a logical conclusion with the premises you provided, since I just disputed them. I don't know why you're suffering from hags from range if you're playing mediums and lights. HAGs suffer the most against mediums and lights because they spread and must fire in a volley, making it easy for the light/medium to abuse their agility to spread or dodge the damage. Mediums and lights can poptart with ppcs or skirmish with lasers just fine, and many of them can use skirmish and brawl with snub nose ppcs and back up lasers.

I will agree with you that the meta is laservomit and recently hags. Sniping though? Really hit or miss. If your team keeps nascaring super hard you never have a chance to snipe. Play on EU prime and you'll know what I mean. I've been trying to talk to many people in and out of the cauldron to nerf laservomit so ballistics, which take actual skill to use and have lower alphas, can be put to replace or at least compete with laservomit in the mid-range meta, but it hasn't been working out very well.

Yeah, lights are so powerful, they are infesting QP completely, especially the mechs you mentioned.

Oh wait...nope. Lights are still the least represented mech class in this game. And here goes you "logic" to hell because in an online pvp game, the majority of players will always play mostly the strongest avatars/mechs etc.

Anway, I am beyond arguing. Have fun at the heavy/assault dominated ranged whack-a-mole snipe-and campfest. This is what this game has become

Bassault, on 02 September 2023 - 07:20 PM, said:

Does this really happen? Do you have any proof? To be quiet honest I've never seen this happen before and I doubt it is very common.

Sometimes they are so dumb and even brag in chat about it. Granted, you can't derive from this how often this happens, but it shows it happens. And this is also an indicator how low the "pros" have sunk...marginal graphic settings (in another pvp game you would have been banned for it), sncy drops...geez

Edited by Weeny Machine, 03 September 2023 - 01:54 AM.

[East Indy]

Weeny Machine, on 03 September 2023 - 01:50 AM, said:

heavy/assault dominated ranged whack-a-mole snipe-and campfest.

It's a shame this is what every iteration of MechWarrior devolves into, but until a developer has the confidence and know-how to design around the game's fundamental problems, the IP will always be limited to a tiny following.

[Bassault]

martian, on 02 September 2023 - 11:59 PM, said:

Clan sniping weapons
Clan Gauss Rifle - 12 tons, 6 slots
Clan ER Large laser - 4 tons, 1 slot

Clan brawling weapons
Clan UAC-20 - 12 tons, 8 slots
Clan LBX-20 - 12 tons, 9 slots
Clan HLL - 4 tons, 3 slots

So no, brawling weapons do not weigh "a lot less". They weigh exactly the same, while sniping weapons need less slots that can be used for additional sniping weapons or equipment.

And when you finally get to that sniper in your battered brawling 'Mech, you are facing a fresh Daishi whose pair of Gauss Rifles hits almost as hard as a pair of brawling Class 20 cannons.

I want to insult you. First and foremost, HLL is not a clan brawling weapon... it is a trading weapon.... I don't know what in the world made you think otherwise...

A clan uac20 has more dps than a c-gauss rifle. A clan Lbx20 has more dps than a c-gauss rifle. You're also not taking into account the most important brawling weapon of them all... the SRM. One c-srm weighs 1.5 tons but already has half the dps of a gauss rifle. 3 c-spl already match the dps of a single gauss rifle despite only weighing 3 tons. Boat spls/micros and/or use srms, and you will have more dps than a sniper at close range, significantly more even. Many brawlers combine lbx20 with srms as well for a nasty alpha and still great dps. I have no idea why these weapons just completely flew over your head...

martian, on 02 September 2023 - 11:59 PM, said:

Also, while you were busy attempting to close in to that sniper, you actually did not contribute much to your team's effort, while that sniping enemy assault dished out the damage every few seconds, thus contributing to the enemy team's effort very significantly.

If you kit your brawler out correctly (make it fast with high dps short ranged weapons), you shouldn't have too much of a problem closing in to the sniper unless his team is protecting him or the map is really badly designed. If you're running a 48.6 kph or a 54kph brawler, that's your problem for thinking that slow + short range is a good combination.

Edited by Bassault, 03 September 2023 - 08:08 AM.

[Bassault]

Weeny Machine, on 03 September 2023 - 01:50 AM, said:

Yeah, lights are so powerful, they are infesting QP completely, especially the mechs you mentioned.

Oh wait...nope. Lights are still the least represented mech class in this game. And here goes you "logic" to hell because in an online pvp game, the majority of players will always play mostly the strongest avatars/mechs etc.

The problem here is that lights are much harder to play for low skilled players than assaults are. Low skilled players like to stand still and hardly react to being shot. They stand still to line up their shots. They don't immediately realize when they're being shot. Heavies and assaults are better for this playstyle because the higher amount of health prevents you from instantly dying. If you played like this with a light mech you would die instantly. However, when you understand fundemental game concepts like abusing your agility and aiming while shooting, lights become so much more powerful. This playerbase also likes assaults more so lights and mediums get played less. Just because the majority of the playerbase doesn't play something, that doesn't mean it's weak.

A competitive champion and my team leader, Geeram, has done "spreadsheets" where he plays 50 games in a mech to determine how good it is. Of all the mechs tested, the Incubus with 2 hll 4 lmg has one of the highest winrates at 86% when playing solo. https://docs.google....3KHE/edit#gid=0

Edited by Bassault, 03 September 2023 - 08:21 AM.

[martian]

Bassault, on 03 September 2023 - 07:56 AM, said:

I want to insult you. First and foremost, HLL is not a clan brawling weapon... it is a trading weapon.... I don't know what in the world made you think otherwise...

It was just an example to show how a shorter range weapon is space inefficient in comparison with Clan ER Large Laser (1 slot, 4 tons). Especially since not every Clan 'Mech has enough hardpoints to boat a massive number of small SRM racks or a ton of Micro Pulse lasers.

Bassault, on 03 September 2023 - 07:56 AM, said:

A clan uac20 has more dps than a c-gauss rifle. A clan Lbx20 has more dps than a c-gauss rifle. You're also not taking into account the most important brawling weapon of them all... the SRM. One c-srm weighs 1.5 tons but already has half the dps of a gauss rifle. 3 c-spl already match the dps of a single gauss rifle despite only weighing 3 tons. Boat spls/micros and/or use srms, and you will have more dps than a sniper at close range, significantly more even. Many brawlers combine lbx20 with srms as well for a nasty alpha and still great dps. I have no idea why these weapons just completely flew over your head...

Any problem with considering UAC-20 or LBX-20 for brawling weapons?

I am asking because you said that you said "brawling weapons ... they usually weigh a lot less, so brawlers can have more weapons that are tonnage efficient".

Both Clan UAC-20 and LBX-20 have exactly the same weight as Clan Gauss Rifle, but take up more equipment slots.

Bassault, on 03 September 2023 - 07:56 AM, said:

If you kit your brawler out correctly (make it fast with high dps short ranged weapons), you shouldn't have too much of a problem closing in to the sniper unless his team is protecting him ...

Are you still talking about MWO? The game where one team can have a top 4-man premade in the best 'Mechs and the other team is just a random mix casual solos?

Bassault, on 03 September 2023 - 07:56 AM, said:

... or the map is really badly designed. If you're running a 48.6 kph or a 54kph brawler, that's your problem for thinking that slow + short range is a good combination.

You mean, just like a half of MWO maps?

Edited by martian, 03 September 2023 - 09:02 AM.

[ThreeStooges]

MrMadguy, on 02 September 2023 - 11:05 PM, said:

My idea - in order to be balanced, Lights should have size, that is proportional to fire power, they can carry. If 'Mech can fit 20 MGs, then it should have medium size. Because, you know, if you prefer stealth actions - then you just play wrong game. You shouldn't be 100% invulnerable. We should have at least 1% chance to hit you.

Lights/Mediums are already way too overpowered.

Break it down exactly for me how exactly are lights over powered? I'll list only my is lights and you can give me your option on how each one specifically and what it has that makes it vastly over powered. I can tell you right now only four (the best ones) seem even close to op IF and only IF I can get an enemy mech solo from the group isolated alone to give me not only the element of surprise but the high ground to hit its back which is known to have a lot less armor than front.
I have 26 OP IS lights. I might have forgotten a few but tell me and the rest who read it, how exactly is each light OP?

com-2d (ecm stealth god)
fle-19
fle-20
fs9-s (GOD MODE)
jr7-D (D stands for ****)
jr7-K (K for Killin u)
jr7-F (**** it give up now)
Jvn-HT (I need a hero)
lct-3s (Kneel before LRM)
lct-1E (EEEK IT's a light!)
lct-PB (jelly time pb jelly time oh yea oh yea)
osr-se (GODDLY UNKILLABLE)
osr-1V (victory for me death to you)
pnt-9R (run forest run)
pnt-10P (pissed himself the assult did)
pnt-kk (kkkicked his assults)
rvn-3L (THE BEST LIGHT IN GAME UNINSTALL NOW)
rvn-2x (X-factor baby!)
rvn-H (hulkmainia run wild over you brother!)
sdr-A (asswoopin the asses of assults)
um-r68 (68 dead assults and counting)
um-r60L (Losers everywhere i shoot)
um-r80 (80 dead assults body count rising!)
wlr-2 (2 gud 4 u to kill)

[Bassault]

martian, on 03 September 2023 - 08:39 AM, said:

It is definitely shorter ranged than Clan ER Large laser and that's enough for me. Especially since not every Clan 'Mech has enough hardpoints to boat a massive number of small SRM racks or a ton of Micro Pulse lasers.

Is the clan ac5 a brawling weapon as well? After all it has less range than the er large laser...

martian, on 03 September 2023 - 08:39 AM, said:

Any problem with considering UAC-20 or LBX-20 for brawling weapons? I am asking because you said that you said "brawling weapons ... they usually weigh a lot less, so brawlers can have more weapons that are tonnage efficient". Both Clan UAC-20 and LBX-20 have exactly the same weight as Clan Gauss Rifle, but take up more equipment slots.

I said they are USUALLY lighter. And uac20 and lbx20 still fall into my argument fine. They weigh the same, but they do more dps. So brawling weapons are almost always more dps efficient in regards to tonnage. SRMs and Spls are now even more efficient in tonnage. Also, your mech can't equip a lot of srms and/or spls? Then it isn't a good brawler. Get another mech. It's the same as if a mech that can't equip enough erlarge or enough erlarge with sufficient heatsinks. It's a bad sniper. Get another mech.

martian, on 03 September 2023 - 08:39 AM, said:

Are you still talking about MWO? The game where one team can have a top 4-man premade in the best 'Mechs and the other team is just a random mix casual solos?

Yes? Just because groups can skew a game one way or the other, that doesn't change much in the case of "how do I approach a sniper."

martian, on 03 September 2023 - 08:39 AM, said:

You mean, just like a half of MWO maps?

MWO maps are often poorly designed, but not always poorly designed because they allow snipers to be unapproachable. Grim Plexus and Emerald vale are the biggest offenders. If you really hate snipers so much, get PGI to remove every gamemode but conquest. Conquest forces aggression and forces teams to move from some positions because if the enemy team decides to get 3 caps while you sit and do nothing, they will win. The sniper is forced to move up, which may put him in an unfavorable range bracket. This is why in comp, conquest is the only game mode.

[Duke Falcon]

ThreeStooges, on 03 September 2023 - 08:41 AM, said:

Break it down exactly for me how exactly are lights over powered? I'll list only my is lights and you can give me your option on how each one specifically and what it has that makes it vastly over powered. I can tell you right now only four (the best ones) seem even close to op IF and only IF I can get an enemy mech solo from the group isolated alone to give me not only the element of surprise but the high ground to hit its back which is known to have a lot less armor than front.
I have 26 OP IS lights. I might have forgotten a few but tell me and the rest who read it, how exactly is each light OP?

com-2d (ecm stealth god)
fle-19
fle-20
fs9-s (GOD MODE)
jr7-D (D stands for ****)
jr7-K (K for Killin u)
jr7-F (**** it give up now)
Jvn-HT (I need a hero)
lct-3s (Kneel before LRM)
lct-1E (EEEK IT's a light!)
lct-PB (jelly time pb jelly time oh yea oh yea)
osr-se (GODDLY UNKILLABLE)
osr-1V (victory for me death to you)
pnt-9R (run forest run)
pnt-10P (pissed himself the assult did)
pnt-kk (kkkicked his assults)
rvn-3L (THE BEST LIGHT IN GAME UNINSTALL NOW)
rvn-2x (X-factor baby!)
rvn-H (hulkmainia run wild over you brother!)
sdr-A (asswoopin the asses of assults)
um-r68 (68 dead assults and counting)
um-r60L (Losers everywhere i shoot)
um-r80 (80 dead assults body count rising!)
wlr-2 (2 gud 4 u to kill)

The usual story you know: Someone with a light killed someone in an assault. Light-pilot knew how to play while assault-pilot thought assault meant "indestructible muttaf***a InstaWin".
This is how "lights are OP" stuffs breed every f**king single damn'd times...

BTW, FS9-S (GOD MODE Nice ) runs what loadout? Tried X-pulses on it?

[martian]

Bassault, on 03 September 2023 - 09:04 AM, said:

Yes? Just because groups can skew a game one way or the other, that doesn't change much in the case of "how do I approach a sniper."

Let us agree to disagree. I think that any further discussion would be pointless.

Bassault, on 02 September 2023 - 07:20 PM, said:

KingCobra, on 02 September 2023 - 07:05 PM, said:

Like I said groups in solo quick play are in fact exploiting it for kills and damage and kill stats by sync dropping more than 4 player each into battles that give them 5 players and not 4 in the que and also have other teammates on private coms team damaging teammates on their side to farm teams for damage and kills which is a violation of the MWO TOS a clear advantage in battles.

Does this really happen? Do you have any proof? To be quiet honest I've never seen this happen before and I doubt it is very common.

I made this screenshot for you just a few minutes ago:



As you can see, not the usual 4-man premade and not a rarer 5-man premade.

Just a 6-man premade group. The game was so much fun.

Although it might seem that the battle lasted nine minutes, the actual fight was over rather quickly. They just needed a few minutes to find the last two 'Mechs in the maze of buildings and alleys and finish them. The premade got 9 kills, i.e. three quarters of kills available to enemy team.

Edited by martian, 03 September 2023 - 10:41 AM.

[Bassault]

martian, on 03 September 2023 - 10:26 AM, said:

Let us agree to disagree. I think that any further discussion would be pointless.

I don't know why you feel the need to ignore the rest of my irrefutable points but ok, remain delusional.

martian, on 03 September 2023 - 10:26 AM, said:

I needed just a short time to make this screenshot for you:



As you can see, not the usual 4-man premade and not a rarer 5-man premade.

Just a 6-man premade group. The game was so much fun.

Ok first of all clch isn't that good so idk why you think this would lower your win chances. Most of them hardly did anything in this match specifically. Wasn't even a stomp either. 12-6 is quite good. Second, I'm pretty sure Kobra was talking about unit members on the other team of the 4 man purposely dying in order to give an advantage to the 4 man on the other team. This does not address that issue.

Edited by Bassault, 03 September 2023 - 10:45 AM.

[martian]

Bassault, on 03 September 2023 - 10:42 AM, said:

I don't know why you feel the need to ignore the rest of my irrefutable points but ok, remain delusional.

Ok first of all clch isn't that good so idk why you think this would lower your win chances. Most of them hardly did anything in this match specifically. Wasn't even a stomp either. 12-6 is quite good. Second, I'm pretty sure Kobra was talking about unit members on the other team of the 4 man purposely dying in order to give an advantage to the 4 man on the other team. This does not address that issue.

That's okay. Enjoy your preferred play style with your group.

[Bassault]

martian, on 03 September 2023 - 10:52 AM, said:

That's okay. Enjoy your preferred play style with your group.

I play solo more or at least just as much as with groups (of 2). I don't know why you're refusing to read what I'm actually saying.

Edited by Bassault, 03 September 2023 - 10:57 AM.

[ThreeStooges]

Duke Falcon, on 03 September 2023 - 09:27 AM, said:

The usual story you know: Someone with a light killed someone in an assault. Light-pilot knew how to play while assault-pilot thought assault meant "indestructible muttaf***a InstaWin".
This is how "lights are OP" stuffs breed every f**king single damn'd times...

BTW, FS9-S (GOD MODE Nice ) runs what loadout? Tried X-pulses on it?

Haven't tried the x-pules much. Way too much face time for is lights. Load out varies to how I feel like playing and the types of teams I'm thrown into in qp. Mechs with only one or two weapon types bore me. The thing worse than that is too low hard point count or crappy placement like the fle that is a near identical copy of the lct-1v but has two more mg slots or the spider 5v's ****** 2E ct only bs.

If I find teams are being far too passive and long range junk i might go with 2x ermls,2xmpls and dual ams. Most my mechs have bap,the sesmic sensor skills and range skills making them that much harder to sneak up on. I try to almost always have one uav for counter ecm or scouting if I think enemy mechs are near.

I find myself usually dueling enemy lights and fast movers so I love my spls,erlls and mpls. I used an x-pules of some kind on the com-2d ecm one and tried to do the stealth scout bit on the purple map but the team I had melted fast. I did find the best target a light looks for:lrm and ams only assult and spent the match shooting it up since it was obvious the team was dying too fast that no matter what I did the match would be a loss. 650 damage and one kill on the assult being the last to die in my so op mech.

I've done pretty much any combo I can come up with on my lights. Long range snipping just isn't my thing. I find it so boring and dull. Unless you have a huge alpha it makes you an easy kill when any thing gets close with brawl or dps builds. My favotie light for the is side isn't the 3L but the 4x since it gives me the most build options.

My most passive builds are what I call lazy anti-lrm. Stuff the lfe 200, 2xhs, a small laser with an ams and all the ammo you can fit. Max the range,ams damage,velocity,sensor range,sesmic, and max out uav/air strike trees. Just find a gun assult like the dire whale uv and stand next to it most the match. Shoot what it shoots,uav the enemy ecms,and air bomb the camping snipers. It's an easy way to get skills when using a new or low skilled light.

[JediPanther]

KursedVixen, on 02 September 2023 - 12:12 PM, said:

Lights definity need more back armor as they will be running more than any other mech weight class.

They need a lot more than mere armor buffs/quirks. They could sell me an unmodified jr7-d with closed beta stats for ten bucks and I'd take it simply because it would be the original scale and pre-skill-tree performance. When any mech relies on a 30-40% quirk PLUS skill tree skills that mech needs some serious base stat adjustments...pnt-kk...rvn-h...

[1Exitar1]

ThreeStooges, on 03 September 2023 - 08:41 AM, said:

Break it down exactly for me how exactly are lights over powered? I'll list only my is lights and you can give me your option on how each one specifically and what it has that makes it vastly over powered. I can tell you right now only four (the best ones) seem even close to op IF and only IF I can get an enemy mech solo from the group isolated alone to give me not only the element of surprise but the high ground to hit its back which is known to have a lot less armor than front.
I have 26 OP IS lights. I might have forgotten a few but tell me and the rest who read it, how exactly is each light OP?

com-2d (ecm stealth god)
fle-19
fle-20
fs9-s (GOD MODE)
jr7-D (D stands for ****)
jr7-K (K for Killin u)
jr7-F (**** it give up now)
Jvn-HT (I need a hero)
lct-3s (Kneel before LRM)
lct-1E (EEEK IT's a light!)
lct-PB (jelly time pb jelly time oh yea oh yea)
osr-se (GODDLY UNKILLABLE)
osr-1V (victory for me death to you)
pnt-9R (run forest run)
pnt-10P (pissed himself the assult did)
pnt-kk (kkkicked his assults)
rvn-3L (THE BEST LIGHT IN GAME UNINSTALL NOW)
rvn-2x (X-factor baby!)
rvn-H (hulkmainia run wild over you brother!)
sdr-A (asswoopin the asses of assults)
um-r68 (68 dead assults and counting)
um-r60L (Losers everywhere i shoot)
um-r80 (80 dead assults body count rising!)
wlr-2 (2 gud 4 u to kill)

In the right hands, they are ALL op!! In the hands of someone that doesn't know how to get their full potential, they are weak or not good mechs. Look at GeeRam or DATA, you put either one of them in any of those mechs and they will tear you apart. Put them in my hands and I might break 500 damage or if I have a REALLY good match, break 1,000 damage. Put them in someones hands that's not good in lights and they might not do any damage!

[Weeny Machine]

Bassault, on 03 September 2023 - 08:05 AM, said:

The problem here is that lights are much harder to play for low skilled players than assaults are. Low skilled players like to stand still and hardly react to being shot. They stand still to line up their shots. They don't immediately realize when they're being shot. Heavies and assaults are better for this playstyle because the higher amount of health prevents you from instantly dying. If you played like this with a light mech you would die instantly. However, when you understand fundemental game concepts like abusing your agility and aiming while shooting, lights become so much more powerful. This playerbase also likes assaults more so lights and mediums get played less. Just because the majority of the playerbase doesn't play something, that doesn't mean it's weak.

A competitive champion and my team leader, Geeram, has done "spreadsheets" where he plays 50 games in a mech to determine how good it is. Of all the mechs tested, the Incubus with 2 hll 4 lmg has one of the highest winrates at 86% when playing solo. https://docs.google....3KHE/edit#gid=0

You contradict at least partly yourself. Something powerful aka OP does reasonable well even in mediocre players hands. A skilled pilot would do well in e.g. an assault or light. Also an assault can do what a light cannot do: alpha target into oblivion with 2 well-placed salvos even from the front. A light cannot do that in nearly all cases even if he gets a free shot at the target's back (one of my laser Jenners excluded). And don't get me wrong, there are circumstances where lights can shine but things need to line up - especially in this peek-a-boo meta where people camp together one spot.

Also, win rates etc are simply no solid values in this game (I have sometimes lose streaks because I am with other casuals in a group facing comp groups etc and vice versa). and an amount of 50 games is a low number for statistics.

You also avoided to tell what kind of mechs your buddy played during those tests. It sounded like some of the weenie mechs.

Again: if you want an indicator what is powerful in an online pvp game, watch what is played most.

[Curccu]

Weeny Machine, on 03 September 2023 - 11:55 PM, said:

You also avoided to tell what kind of mechs your buddy played during those tests. It sounded like some of the weenie mechs.

Again: if you want an indicator what is powerful in an online pvp game, watch what is played most.

As a comp team leader most likely builds that he can see potential to be comp good... And yeah that Incubus is stupid good build.

[Bassault]

Weeny Machine, on 03 September 2023 - 11:55 PM, said:

You contradict at least partly yourself. Something powerful aka OP does reasonable well even in mediocre players hands. A skilled pilot would do well in e.g. an assault or light.

This is not true at all. I am terrible at lights. I am awful at lights. I can aim the weapons, but I have no idea where to position myself or where to go. Some of my teammates on my team are the opposite. They play lights/meds exclusively and are clueless and do poorly when put into an assault, always complaining they're too slow. Some players are able to play both very well, but that's because they've put in the effort to learn how to play in both ways. If you are good at lights that doesn't guarentee you'll be good at assaults.

Something powerful doesn't have to be good in a mediocre player's hands... ease of use and power are not the same thing. In other games, like TF2 for example, learning how to aim the grenade launcher or rocket launcher to get direct hitso on mid-air opponents is incredibly difficult to master, but when you do learn how to do it, it's incredibly powerful as it guarentees a kill. In MW:O, it's similar with the usage of lights. Once you understand the tricky gameplay of lights, the agility they provide makes them super strong.

Weeny Machine, on 03 September 2023 - 11:55 PM, said:

Also an assault can do what a light cannot do: alpha target into oblivion with 2 well-placed salvos even from the front. A light cannot do that in nearly all cases even if he gets a free shot at the target's back (one of my laser Jenners excluded). And don't get me wrong, there are circumstances where lights can shine but things need to line up - especially in this peek-a-boo meta where people camp together one spot.

No they can't. An assault can't reposition quickly and peek instantly. An assault can't poptart as well as lights can. An assault can't dodge incoming fire and spread lasers as well as a light can. An assault can't run away from a ****** situation as quickly as a light can. I do agree there is a laservomit, high alpha meta made even worse with hags, but it is not hopeless for lights and mediums. The best things lights can do is low exposure gameplay. That means snub nose PPCs, light PPCs, and hill peeking mechs (like the incubus).

Weeny Machine, on 03 September 2023 - 11:55 PM, said:

Also, win rates etc are simply no solid values in this game (I have sometimes lose streaks because I am with other casuals in a group facing comp groups etc and vice versa). and an amount of 50 games is a low number for statistics.

You're wrong. If you do well consistently, there will always be an upward trend of your winrate, unless you're sync dropping against a 4 man of Div-A players every match, I don't see how your winrate would not go positive. Work on yourself before blaming anything else. If you are an asset, it will always be represented statistically.

Weeny Machine, on 03 September 2023 - 11:55 PM, said:

You also avoided to tell what kind of mechs your buddy played during those tests. It sounded like some of the weenie mechs.

Go to his discord if you want to know exactly every mech he played, but he did gaussvomit dire, blood asp 4 lpl 1 gauss, MC MKII 2 gauss 4 erll, Seraph 2 gauss 4 ERLL, Kitfox 6 ermed, Incubus 4 lmg 2 HLL, Gauss ERppc Jenner Fury, and a few others there.

Weeny Machine, on 03 September 2023 - 11:55 PM, said:

Again: if you want an indicator what is powerful in an online pvp game, watch what is played most.

Nope. Just because it's popular that doesn't mean it's good, especially in quickplay where many people do not play seriously. Some mechs are just liked and played often, others are too hard to pick up despite them being powerful. And by this logic, the incubus is powerful because I see at least one every single game I'm in.

[MrMadguy]

ThreeStooges, on 03 September 2023 - 08:41 AM, said:

Break it down exactly for me how exactly are lights over powered? I'll list only my is lights and you can give me your option on how each one specifically and what it has that makes it vastly over powered. I can tell you right now only four (the best ones) seem even close to op IF and only IF I can get an enemy mech solo from the group isolated alone to give me not only the element of surprise but the high ground to hit its back which is known to have a lot less armor than front.
I have 26 OP IS lights. I might have forgotten a few but tell me and the rest who read it, how exactly is each light OP?

com-2d (ecm stealth god)
fle-19
fle-20
fs9-s (GOD MODE)
jr7-D (D stands for ****)
jr7-K (K for Killin u)
jr7-F (**** it give up now)
Jvn-HT (I need a hero)
lct-3s (Kneel before LRM)
lct-1E (EEEK IT's a light!)
lct-PB (jelly time pb jelly time oh yea oh yea)
osr-se (GODDLY UNKILLABLE)
osr-1V (victory for me death to you)
pnt-9R (run forest run)
pnt-10P (pissed himself the assult did)
pnt-kk (kkkicked his assults)
rvn-3L (THE BEST LIGHT IN GAME UNINSTALL NOW)
rvn-2x (X-factor baby!)
rvn-H (hulkmainia run wild over you brother!)
sdr-A (asswoopin the asses of assults)
um-r68 (68 dead assults and counting)
um-r60L (Losers everywhere i shoot)
um-r80 (80 dead assults body count rising!)
wlr-2 (2 gud 4 u to kill)

No need to list 100500 ones, as even one is enough. Simply because this game has weight class restrictions, but not 'Mech/variant ones. And not many players prefer 'Mech diversity. May be I'm only one, who do it. Other players simply pick the best ones. And it's real reason, why we see exactly the same 'Mechs in our matches.

[KingCobra]

Bassault, on 04 September 2023 - 06:45 AM, said:

This is not true at all. I am terrible at lights. I am awful at lights. I can aim the weapons, but I have no idea where to position myself or where to go. Some of my teammates on my team are the opposite. They play lights/meds exclusively and are clueless and do poorly when put into an assault, always complaining they're too slow. Some players are able to play both very well, but that's because they've put in the effort to learn how to play in both ways. If you are good at lights that doesn't guarentee you'll be good at assaults.

Something powerful doesn't have to be good in a mediocre player's hands... ease of use and power are not the same thing. In other games, like TF2 for example, learning how to aim the grenade launcher or rocket launcher to get direct hitso on mid-air opponents is incredibly difficult to master, but when you do learn how to do it, it's incredibly powerful as it guarentees a kill. In MW:O, it's similar with the usage of lights. Once you understand the tricky gameplay of lights, the agility they provide makes them super strong.


No they can't. An assault can't reposition quickly and peek instantly. An assault can't poptart as well as lights can. An assault can't dodge incoming fire and spread lasers as well as a light can. An assault can't run away from a ****** situation as quickly as a light can. I do agree there is a laservomit, high alpha meta made even worse with hags, but it is not hopeless for lights and mediums. The best things lights can do is low exposure gameplay. That means snub nose PPCs, light PPCs, and hill peeking mechs (like the incubus).


You're wrong. If you do well consistently, there will always be an upward trend of your winrate, unless you're sync dropping against a 4 man of Div-A players every match, I don't see how your winrate would not go positive. Work on yourself before blaming anything else. If you are an asset, it will always be represented statistically.


Go to his discord if you want to know exactly every mech he played, but he did gaussvomit dire, blood asp 4 lpl 1 gauss, MC MKII 2 gauss 4 erll, Seraph 2 gauss 4 ERLL, Kitfox 6 ermed, Incubus 4 lmg 2 HLL, Gauss ERppc Jenner Fury, and a few others there.


Nope. Just because it's popular that doesn't mean it's good, especially in quickplay where many people do not play seriously. Some mechs are just liked and played often, others are too hard to pick up despite them being powerful. And by this logic, the incubus is powerful because I see at least one every single game I'm in.

=============================================================================================
I'm not going to answer ever post but your all getting way off topic PGI needs to fix a few things the player base has wanted for quite some time and keep on top of things that are current issues. For myself I play all mech classes as I have over 300 mechs some better than others as I have said many times lights need help except for a few that possibly need a reduction in DPS and Crits. Most lights need Buffs to even be viable in actual game play.

Back on topic I did play a few games yesterday and for some reason there were no groups in the games and all the games were like 12-10 through12-6 games win or lose on average these games represented what solo quick play games used to be before the introduction of groups into solo quick play games and it was fun.

And don't mistake that I don't miss Faction play year 1-3 or the old GQ 8v8 game play I personally would play GQ 8v8-4v4 games 60% of my time in MWO if it were available today, but I hate the fact that some individuals in MWO are destroying solo quick play with exploits that I feel personally are making many new and casual players uninstall since they feel noncompetitive in MWO game play when groups are playing in the solo quick play que.

Edited by KingCobra, 04 September 2023 - 12:08 PM.