77 replies to this topic

[Duke Falcon]

Well, a fully skilled IS mechs in adequate hands currently beat a clanner omni in a clean fight. And that is a fact.
On the other hand if someone have little to no clue HOW-TO build an IS chassis... That is another story from the bookshelf.
And IS mechs are slow? Use light engine and paint them red!
Currently the two sides are pretty balanced (base it on FP experience, QP is a distorted mirror noone should use for comparison) but need different playstyles. A bit learning.
Then the feel when your Stalker smash a Blood asp face-to-face... Sure, IS mechs do the vacuum-job like a corner-worker girl, IN TT!!! But MWO is not TT, so sure... Different agendas... Random lives we live, random lives...

[MOPCKOE]

JediPanther, on 22 September 2023 - 01:05 PM, said:

Rebuild it. The catapults are far from trash. Switch to lfe if you have xl so much. You want it to jump then max out jump jets and the lump jet tree. You want it to out tank an atlas max armor and torso twist. Rebuild it to suit how you want it work. I have the timby as well. I'll take the catapults over them for is and laser builds most of the time

What is this? I'll do that measly 400 damage on literally anything, even basic builds from the store.

Moreover, on great cards like Solaris or mining.

I’d like to see your pains of tinkering with a 4mpl+2x6srm build when you get to the polar highlands, Grim Plexus or other “field in the middle of a field” maps, which are voted for in 80% of cases

A normal playable middle clan mech does 700-1000 damage unless it's a 12-2 match.

The Catapult is a mech with the armor and weapons of a medium, but the dynamics of a heavy mech.
The same about the IS Highlander.

King Crab and Fafnir are clumsy pan with useless weapons. While you are barely dragging along behind your 200 meter strikes for 20 damage, your trough flies into the fur of a burst of UAC or clan lasers half a kilometer away.

You are even suffering from the LRMs that have been slow lately, as these mechs are TOO slow. And for what? To carry around this crap in the form of an IS Heavy Gauss or AC20 with a 200 meter range and an recharge takes forever?

But the funny thing is that these mechs were once interesting - TDR9s ​​were nerfed, now it is a very mediocre mech, the BLK with the "hsl error” competed with the clan laser strike, but they didn’t let it live for even a month, the highlander flew normally, and the heavy gaus did not spin up your cockpit camera around its axis for some ridiculous 25 damage per 200 meters.


I’m sure even MRM was normal not so long ago, and not a parody of SRM, useless beyond 300 meters as it is now.

Edited by MOPCKOE, 23 September 2023 - 09:26 AM.

[Bud Crue]

MOPCKOE, on 23 September 2023 - 09:23 AM, said:

What is this? I'll do that measly 400 damage on literally anything, even basic builds from the store.

Moreover, on great cards like Solaris or mining.

I’d like to see your pains of tinkering with a 4mpl+2x6srm build when you get to the polar highlands, Grim Plexus or other “field in the middle of a field” maps, which are voted for in 80% of cases

A normal playable middle clan mech does 700-1000 damage unless it's a 12-2 match.

The Catapult is a mech with the armor and weapons of a medium, but the dynamics of a heavy mech.
The same about the IS Highlander.

King Crab and Fafnir are clumsy pan with useless weapons. While you are barely dragging along behind your 200 meter strikes for 20 damage, your trough flies into the fur of a burst of UAC or clan lasers half a kilometer away.

You are even suffering from the LRMs that have been slow lately, as these mechs are TOO slow. And for what? To carry around this crap in the form of an IS Heavy Gauss or AC20 with a 200 meter range and an recharge takes forever?

But the funny thing is that these mechs were once interesting - TDR9s ​​were nerfed, now it is a very mediocre mech, the BLK with the "hsl error” competed with the clan laser strike, but they didn’t let it live for even a month, the highlander flew normally, and the heavy gaus did not spin up your cockpit camera around its axis for some ridiculous 25 damage per 200 meters.


I’m sure even MRM was normal not so long ago, and not a parody of SRM, useless beyond 300 meters as it is now.

A 4mpl + 2SRM6 Catapult...really? An anemic, no one would actually play this in game build, is your evidence that Catapults are bad/outclassed by Clan mechs? Sigh.

When you started this thread I kinda thought I saw where you were coming from. Now however, between your nonsensical Catapult/Timber LRM comparison, your statement above that even your mediocre clan mechs regularly do 700-1000 damage after being reminded that your stats are readily viewable, along with the adjoining word salad, I am convinced that you are simply delusional and/or coked out of your gourd. Nothing wrong with that mind you, but the various anecdotal evidence you cite in support of your general thesis is so horribly misguided as to be silly and thus easily dismissed.

I think a good case can be made that with certain types of play, namely mid-range traders, extreme range traders, SRM brawlers, general purpose lights, and perhaps other categories as well, you could have made a good case for Clan mechs having more options if not outright superior selections. Alas, you chose the nonsense above.

[JediPanther]

MOPCKOE, on 23 September 2023 - 09:23 AM, said:

What is this? I'll do that measly 400 damage on literally anything, even basic builds from the store.

Hahaha! So go do 400 with any of the catapults since it's so easy for you. Show us the screen shots of doing over 500 damage since 400 is too easy and measly for you. What's that? Your clan basis says you can't? Well ok then.

[Andrewlik]

pbiggz, on 22 September 2023 - 06:23 AM, said:

Thats kind of objectively false.



Both of those mechs are, especially relative to the centurion, made of literal paper.




Given your account was created in 2014 my guess is you've come back to a radically different meta, none of your mechs work, and you don't know why. This comment kind of reinforces that.



And this comment kind of reinforces that you're having a bad time dealing with snipers. If you are loafing across open territory at 70kph with no cover, you're getting eaten alive, that's pretty much always been true, even during lowreybalance.



Yeah your problem is your builds, not the quality of the tech. IS mechs are quite formidable, they just build very differently from clan mechs and are passively much more robust and durable than clan mechs, which are pretty much universally glass cannons.

I just want to say I appreciate how you're taking a calm and collected approach and trying to offer help to someone who's struggling with the game, that's not something I always see. Keep it up

[Andrewlik]

MOPCKOE, on 23 September 2023 - 09:23 AM, said:

What is this? I'll do that measly 400 damage on literally anything, even basic builds from the store.

Moreover, on great cards like Solaris or mining.

I’d like to see your pains of tinkering with a 4mpl+2x6srm build when you get to the polar highlands, Grim Plexus or other “field in the middle of a field” maps, which are voted for in 80% of cases

A normal playable middle clan mech does 700-1000 damage unless it's a 12-2 match.

The Catapult is a mech with the armor and weapons of a medium, but the dynamics of a heavy mech.
The same about the IS Highlander.

King Crab and Fafnir are clumsy pan with useless weapons. While you are barely dragging along behind your 200 meter strikes for 20 damage, your trough flies into the fur of a burst of UAC or clan lasers half a kilometer away.

You are even suffering from the LRMs that have been slow lately, as these mechs are TOO slow. And for what? To carry around this crap in the form of an IS Heavy Gauss or AC20 with a 200 meter range and an recharge takes forever?

But the funny thing is that these mechs were once interesting - TDR9s ​​were nerfed, now it is a very mediocre mech, the BLK with the "hsl error” competed with the clan laser strike, but they didn’t let it live for even a month, the highlander flew normally, and the heavy gaus did not spin up your cockpit camera around its axis for some ridiculous 25 damage per 200 meters.


I’m sure even MRM was normal not so long ago, and not a parody of SRM, useless beyond 300 meters as it is now.

Why do people always go to the empty open field on Alpine Peaks, there's an entire second half of the map to play on

[foamyesque]

Catapults are actually one of my favourite Sphere chassis (and the Timby one of my preferred Clan ones ever since the BH version came out) so a lot of the preceding discussion is kind of painful to read.

Comparing a Sphere mech to a Clan one that's ten tons heavier on top of everything else is a fools errand right from the start, but also, every build OP's presented so far is pretty awful.

[ScrapIron Prime]

MOPCKOE, on 23 September 2023 - 09:02 AM, said:

Do you understand that this thing basically doesn’t cool down?

Well first off, if you have more weapons than your heat system can handle, you're building it wrong. Less weapons more sinks is usually the answer, because having weapons you cannot afford to fire is just like not having them.

MOPCKOE, on 23 September 2023 - 09:23 AM, said:

I’d like to see your pains of tinkering with a 4mpl+2x6srm build when you get to the polar highlands, Grim Plexus or other “field in the middle of a field” maps, which are voted for in 80% of cases

I would caution you against running 4xMPL + 2xSRM6 in anything that moves slower than 90kph, no matter the tech base. This is a loadout for light and medium mechs, not a catapult.

MOPCKOE, on 23 September 2023 - 09:23 AM, said:

The Catapult is a mech with the armor and weapons of a medium, but the dynamics of a heavy mech.
The same about the IS Highlander.

Oh, he went there on my Highlander, did he? Laddie, them's fightin' words.

https://mwo.nav-alph...324d13_HGN-733P

That highlander is the oldest build I run. Why do I run it? Because 800 damage in that mech is a bad game, I almost never fail to clear 1000 in it... even with LRM's in the game play state they're in and facing my share of T1 pilots. And its absolutely not a meta build, but I'm good in it.

Note the armor and structure. Now note what skill points do to that armor and structure. Note the heat efficiency. Remember what I said about less weapons and more sinks? This thing never stops firing, even if the enemy hides behind a rock. It has armor for days and it gets its own freaking LRM locks.

If you don't like IS mechs, that's fine. Play Clan mechs. But don't for a moment think that IS mechs are unplayable. They're just unplayable when you pilot one. Because all those mechs have you and your choices and your preferences in common.

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 23 September 2023 - 11:25 AM.

[Duke Falcon]

Andrewlik, on 23 September 2023 - 10:53 AM, said:

Why do people always go to the empty open field on Alpine Peaks, there's an entire second half of the map to play on

Some people fear to get lost among the many obstacles, hills, peaks...

foamyesque, on 23 September 2023 - 11:21 AM, said:

Comparing a Sphere mech to a Clan one that's ten tons heavier on top of everything else is a fools errand right from the start, but also, every build OP's presented so far is pretty awful.

At least this time we not got a light compare to assault OP stuff. But I think it is but a matter of time, I guess...

@Scrapiron Prime
How you groupped the lasers? Meds and larges are in separate? Maybe the two large could convert a blazer?
Nice build, may stole that

Edited by Duke Falcon, 23 September 2023 - 11:30 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Duke Falcon, on 23 September 2023 - 11:25 AM, said:

How you groupped the lasers? Meds and larges are in separate? Maybe the two large could convert a blazer?
Nice build, may stole that

Yeah, Larges group 1, they're higher up, Mediums group 2, lurms on the thumb button.

I've considered converting the 2 larges to a binary, but with 1 more ton about all I can do is drop the target computer for a second jump jet, so I'm sticking with the lower cooldown of the two larges.

[Gorgo7]

Yeah, its tough.
In a reasonable world the Clans would be in 5 Mech stars or perhaps an 8 Mech unit vs. a Company of 12 inner sphere mechs.
Alas, the players usually gravitate to the most advantageous mechs and we would all play Clan gear.
Thus armour has been doubled, laser damage has been modified, cooling factors for heat sinks has been changed, weapon firing times has been extensively modified based on number of missle tubes or laser size or PPC weight or AC damage.
It is what it is.
Pilot clan gear. You'll be happier.

[pbiggz]

Andrewlik, on 23 September 2023 - 10:48 AM, said:

I just want to say I appreciate how you're taking a calm and collected approach and trying to offer help to someone who's struggling with the game, that's not something I always see. Keep it up

I have been trying to calm down on the internet. Posting is bad for my soul.

[VeeOt Dragon]

you know my personal experience is the exact opposite of the OP's when it comes to Clan vs IS. i have always had trouble getting Clan mechs to preform for me.

but mostly it sounds like our OP here just needs to rethink most of their builds. hell Catapults are my favorite Heavy mechs. i love my LRM-40-C4. (2 LRM-20 and 2 MLs if i remember right, should carry a TAG but i hate having LRM with nothing to back them up. the thing can fire almost constantly with no heat issues unless i am using the laser with the LRM heavily and then i just chain fire the LRMs.)

[Curccu]

MOPCKOE, on 23 September 2023 - 09:02 AM, said:

Do you understand that this thing basically doesn’t cool down?
It shoots once every half a minute, a little further than its nose, and half the damage is smeared into nothing in these mocking 1.5 seconds.
You have 2 unnecessary slots for additional hat sync, but hello, you are in the IS.

Do you understand.... basic math?
WITHOUT any skills this build wlf-1a:
Can shoot twice without overheating
Has alpha heat of 28,4.
Has heat dissipation of 2,42 in second.
How many seconds does it take to dissipate that 28,4 heat? Hint it is not half a minute.

And hello no you cannot add hat sync to this mech even if it would be two slots because there is no free tonnage.
Also burn time is not 1,5 seconds, it is 1 second for BLC way less for ERMLs and that is again without skills.

[PublicWifi]

I bought clan mechs early on. I end up playing IS 90% of the time. Weird how that works out.

[foamyesque]

VeeOt Dragon, on 24 September 2023 - 10:27 AM, said:

you know my personal experience is the exact opposite of the OP's when it comes to Clan vs IS. i have always had trouble getting Clan mechs to preform for me.

but mostly it sounds like our OP here just needs to rethink most of their builds. hell Catapults are my favorite Heavy mechs. i love my LRM-40-C4. (2 LRM-20 and 2 MLs if i remember right, should carry a TAG but i hate having LRM with nothing to back them up. the thing can fire almost constantly with no heat issues unless i am using the laser with the LRM heavily and then i just chain fire the LRMs.)

If you're gonna do LRM + lasers, my rec is the C1. Quad ERMLs, dual 15s. My C2 is kitted out Snub & SRMs, lots of fun too.

[Samziel]

IS tech is so useless it definitely is never ever ever used in higher tiers or comp games. Right?

MWO has done the flavour of IS and Clan quite well. IS feels clunky and old, clan modern and powerful but the game is still balanced between those. There are bad and good mechs on both sides. There are good mechs for all playstyles on both sides.

My favourite playstyle is midrange laservomit and now that blazers are out I've been playing much more IS. It is a great weapon and combined with the tankiness of IS mechs it's hard to do bad with them.

Edited by Samziel, 25 September 2023 - 12:37 AM.

[SolCrusher]

MOPCKOE, on 23 September 2023 - 09:23 AM, said:

What is this? I'll do that measly 400 damage on literally anything, even basic builds from the store.

Moreover, on great cards like Solaris or mining.

I’d like to see your pains of tinkering with a 4mpl+2x6srm build when you get to the polar highlands, Grim Plexus or other “field in the middle of a field” maps, which are voted for in 80% of cases

A normal playable middle clan mech does 700-1000 damage unless it's a 12-2 match.

The Catapult is a mech with the armor and weapons of a medium, but the dynamics of a heavy mech.
The same about the IS Highlander.

King Crab and Fafnir are clumsy pan with useless weapons. While you are barely dragging along behind your 200 meter strikes for 20 damage, your trough flies into the fur of a burst of UAC or clan lasers half a kilometer away.

You are even suffering from the LRMs that have been slow lately, as these mechs are TOO slow. And for what? To carry around this crap in the form of an IS Heavy Gauss or AC20 with a 200 meter range and an recharge takes forever?

But the funny thing is that these mechs were once interesting - TDR9s ​​were nerfed, now it is a very mediocre mech, the BLK with the "hsl error” competed with the clan laser strike, but they didn’t let it live for even a month, the highlander flew normally, and the heavy gaus did not spin up your cockpit camera around its axis for some ridiculous 25 damage per 200 meters.


I’m sure even MRM was normal not so long ago, and not a parody of SRM, useless beyond 300 meters as it is now.

I'm not sure how you pilot a King Crab and not get 700 to 1000 dmg matches. Dual AC20s and 2 Snubnosed PPCs. 60 point alphas.

Just tonight I dropped a King Crab and a Stone Rino. It's was 2 v 1 and I took the KC's XL engine in 2 shots. The Rino overheated and I buried him. I don't torso twist much, why? Because if I'm carefully aiming then you're dead in short order.
I run IS assaults almost exclusively.

So I'd say you're building your mech wrong, and should look to using light engines, heat balanced around 1.5 and probably opt for armor skill tree.

[crazytimes]

SolCrusher, on 29 September 2023 - 10:43 PM, said:

I'm not sure how you pilot a King Crab and not get 700 to 1000 dmg matches. Dual AC20s and 2 Snubnosed PPCs. 60 point alphas.

What works in tier 4 might not work for the majority of the population.

[Duke Falcon]

crazytimes, on 30 September 2023 - 12:28 AM, said:

What works in tier 4 might not work for the majority of the population.

You mean not work for T5s?