180 replies to this topic

[Boiled Peanut Dealer]

simon1812, on 30 September 2023 - 06:24 AM, said:

means a pilot have to play smart? XL reminds you that, it's that simple.

Playing smart would be to avoid playing this mech altogether. Which is my point, this loyalty mech is a joke.

This "loyalty" mech is DOA, it will be played a few times and be tossed into the unused bin for nearly everyone. How often do you see boom jagers these days? . . This will be SLOWER, worse quirks, effectively arm locked, AND a LOWER DPS (with stated quirks). . . .



If they gave it quirks that make it worth the many deficiencies and very limited role then MAYBE playing smart would be an option without needing your team to carry dead weight.

Edited by Boiled Peanut Dealer, 30 September 2023 - 05:59 PM.

[Rhaelcan]

JediPanther, on 30 September 2023 - 01:25 PM, said:

Making a 35t jenner worse than the spider 5v. Lct-1v with jump jets except the lct-1v has all those extra mg slots. This is why I don't buy mechs with real money any more. Under gunned and punny to non existent builds. Should have made the hard point location in the ct to nerf it further before it became op. At least it wasn't another variant of the F.

The spider and locust cannot fit a heavy PPC, LMAO

Boiled Peanut Dealer, on 30 September 2023 - 05:49 PM, said:

Playing smart would be to avoid playing this mech altogether. Which is my point, this loyalty mech is a joke.

This "loyalty" mech is DOA, it will be played a few times and be tossed into the unused bin for nearly everyone. How often do you see boom jagers these days? . . This will be SLOWER, worse quirks, effectively arm locked, AND a LOWER DPS (with stated quirks). . . .



If they gave it quirks that make it worth the many deficiencies and very limited role then MAYBE playing smart would be an option without needing your team to carry dead weight.

Ah yes. 200% heavy gauss ammo and lbx20 ammo is a joke.

[Chiasson Brinker]

JediPanther, on 30 September 2023 - 01:25 PM, said:

Making a 35t jenner worse than the spider 5v. Lct-1v with jump jets except the lct-1v has all those extra mg slots. This is why I don't buy mechs with real money any more. Under gunned and punny to non existent builds. Should have made the hard point location in the ct to nerf it further before it became op. At least it wasn't another variant of the F.

You're aware that this Jenner can mount literally every single energy weapon currently in the game in its hardpoint, right? It doesn't have the space constraints that the Spider does.

[ESC 907]

After the nerfs to the ADR-B(oomstick) and the ADR-D(akka), I was afraid of what I would find with this new Adder... I am not disappointed.

Could we still get that Bravo's LBX spread buffed again though? Pretty-please?

[Der Geisterbaer]

martian, on 30 September 2023 - 02:50 PM, said:

I just quoted the official BattleTech product.

Which particular "official" BattleTech product? The novel (where it happened first), Record Sheets? Or was it just Sarna?

martian, on 30 September 2023 - 02:50 PM, said:

If you do not like the quote, it is no my problem.

It's not about not "liking" the quote but rather the details

martian, on 30 September 2023 - 02:50 PM, said:

A small sentence that doesn't truly reflect what happened story wise and under actual rules it would be a Class F Refit (Factory) that also boils down to rebuilding the entire mech in a Factory that is capable of producing the mech in its new configuration

martian, on 30 September 2023 - 02:50 PM, said:

My statement "That Victor's Daishi was a Clantech product right from the start." is true.

Interestingly enough I didn't claim that your sentence was not true. I merely pointed out that is was and still is entirely irrelevant with regards to what was being asked for.

[martian]

Der Geisterbaer, on 01 October 2023 - 02:17 AM, said:

Which particular "official" BattleTech product? The novel (where it happened first), Record Sheets? Or was it just Sarna?
It's not about not "liking" the quote but rather the details
A small sentence that doesn't truly reflect what happened story wise and under actual rules it would be a Class F Refit (Factory) that also boils down to rebuilding the entire mech in a Factory that is capable of producing the mech in its new configuration
Interestingly enough I didn't claim that your sentence was not true. I merely pointed out that is was and still is entirely irrelevant with regards to what was being asked for.

Sure thing.

[Der Geisterbaer]

martian, on 01 October 2023 - 03:10 AM, said:

Sure thing.

Here are some quotes from the actual source of how the "real IIC Grinner" came to be:

Choking down the huge lump in his throat, he turned to Ranna. "This is Grinner. This is my Wolfhound. How is it possible? Vlad blew it to hell and back on Sisyphus's Lament when he captured me."

=> The original Grinner was destroyed in said conflict between Phelan and Vlad. Phelan had to eject in siad conflict. Well, the Wolves could possibly have salvaged the wreck, couldn't they? But this is what actually happened:

Ranna came to stand behind, him, hands resting on his shoulders. "The head assembly formed your escape module. It contained the computer files we needed to reproduce the general design. Of course, we've modified it a bit."

Well, well, so the Clans took the Wolfhound' design blue prints from the escape module (the mech's head) after Phelan ejected ... and what did they do? Well, they reproduced the general design but added clan technology modifications.

The rest of the section from Blood Legacy goes into details what those modifications are. So no, IIC Grinner was not upgraded to Clan tech in the manner you claimed or what your little sentence from an allegeldy official source (probably still from Sarna.net) suggested. Even if that sentence came from a truly official source it would still be a simplification at best and a false representation of the events at worst.

And yes, you pointing out that Victor's Daishi was Clan tech from the start vs. IIC Grinner (not really) starting out as an IS mech is entirely irrelevant as an argument when someone asks to have Prometheus a ) in MW:O and b ) as a playable mech on IS side but still with its clan tech.

TL;DR: Very sure things indeed

[martian]

Der Geisterbaer, on 01 October 2023 - 04:28 AM, said:

Here are some quotes from the actual source of how the "real IIC Grinner" came to be:

Choking down the huge lump in his throat, he turned to Ranna. "This is Grinner. This is my Wolfhound. How is it possible? Vlad blew it to hell and back on Sisyphus's Lament when he captured me."

=> The original Grinner was destroyed in said conflict between Phelan and Vlad. Phelan had to eject in siad conflict. Well, the Wolves could possibly have salvaged the wreck, couldn't they? But this is what actually happened:

Ranna came to stand behind, him, hands resting on his shoulders. "The head assembly formed your escape module. It contained the computer files we needed to reproduce the general design. Of course, we've modified it a bit."

Well, well, so the Clans took the Wolfhound' design blue prints from the escape module (the mech's head) after Phelan ejected ... and what did they do? Well, they reproduced the general design but added clan technology modifications.

The rest of the section from Blood Legacy goes into details what those modifications are. So no, IIC Grinner was not upgraded to Clan tech in the manner you claimed or what your little sentence from an allegeldy official source (probably still from Sarna.net) suggested. Even if that sentence came from a truly official source it would still be a simplification at best and a false representation of the events at worst.

And yes, you pointing out that Victor's Daishi was Clan tech from the start vs. IIC Grinner (not really) starting out as an IS mech is entirely irrelevant as an argument when someone asks to have Prometheus a ) in MW:O and b ) as a playable mech on IS side but still with its clan tech.

TL;DR: Very sure things indeed

1. I used the word "upgrade" in the sense of presenting a new improved model (even though the upgrade is not physically the same unit), just as this word is used in TROs sometimes. And if you feel that it is "a simplification at best and a false representation of the events at worst.", complain Topps or whoever holds the BattleTech IP.

2. As for the Daishi, what is irrelevant for you can be relevant for other people.

Edited by martian, 01 October 2023 - 07:19 AM.

[Horseman]

Wonderdog, on 30 September 2023 - 12:42 PM, said:

Guessing not much. Guessing a binary mining laser build could be super fun.

LPL is actually better except for a range difference.

[martian]

Boiled Peanut Dealer, on 30 September 2023 - 05:49 PM, said:

Playing smart would be to avoid playing this mech altogether.

If somebody says "playing smart", I understand it as "using the 'Mech's strong suits, while not exposing its weaknesses."

Boiled Peanut Dealer, on 30 September 2023 - 05:49 PM, said:

Which is my point, this loyalty mech is a joke.

What is joke for you could be a useful addition to somebody else's collection of 'Mechs.

Boiled Peanut Dealer, on 30 September 2023 - 05:49 PM, said:

This "loyalty" mech is DOA, it will be played a few times and be tossed into the unused bin for nearly everyone. How often do you see boom jagers these days? . .

I saw one just yesterday, if you must know:


That guy was running the textbook BoomJager, just like it was so common years ago.

Boiled Peanut Dealer, on 30 September 2023 - 05:49 PM, said:

This will be SLOWER, worse quirks, effectively arm locked, AND a LOWER DPS (with stated quirks). . . .

If they gave it quirks that make it worth the many deficiencies and very limited role then MAYBE playing smart would be an option without needing your team to carry dead weight.

If I noticed correctly, it will also carry weapons with longer range than the BoomJager's AC-20s and it will be specially quirked for them.

[Boiled Peanut Dealer]

FYI "If somebody says" Boom Jager. . JM6-A's with two AC-20s quirked to use them both. Not just any jager varient as you are pointing out. How many matches did you wait to screenshot that a jager was played? And you will see the DE even less than the C-bill varients after just a couple months.

Martian, . . Obviously regarding "play smart." This is the perennial USELESS reply of people with zero contributions. Even to cover previous horrible advice / comments. Yeah, no kidding play smart. . . anyone that has played the game more than a week knows this. They generally also know to avoid meme builds. . .

You guys still miss the point that this "loyalty" mech is barely different than what already exists and won't even do the role of a boom jager better. It breaks from the tradition of loyalty mechs actually differentiating in meaningful ways and having playability that make them worth it or sets them apart. Being able to mount HeavyG and LBX20, ok that is cool and will be fun for a few matches, but the mech is useless beyond those few matches. Yes, there will be that weirdo that runs it all the time, good for them (usually this is me) and they will sit in tier 4/5 perpetually. Four weapon hardpoints total limits the build options, current stated quirks limit the mech to a role it is ALREADY outperformed by another varient of the SAME mech chasis (again breaking from traditional loyalty mechs). What don't you guys understand here? . .

Your being dishonest about the "usefulness" of this mech. It is NOT going to be quirked for the weapons. Did you even look at the quirks or any of the math for builds before claiming this? . . . Yes, you get 200% ammo for HeavyG and LBX20. . . because it would be a 32 shot chump in addition to being a meme build without that 200%. Yes, you get the 15% cooldown, but (again) that is LESS than the boom jagers, yes there is a range quirk of 10%, (again) that is LESS than the boom jagers. . .

Range. . with those weapons and amount of ammo. . come on, seriously. Thought you were advocating for "playing smart". .

Edited by Boiled Peanut Dealer, 01 October 2023 - 08:53 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Hang on, how TF can you put LB20X or HGR on the Jagermech arm?

So it's just shoulder, does it have extra slots instead? Or do we finally have crit-splitting?

[w0qj]

If implemented, this proposed JM6-DE(L) Jagermech would be the very first IS mech able to field LBX20 or Heavy Gauss in its mech arms.

No other IS mech can do this! (I did look into this matter last year).

So what was the name of that IS version of the Dire Wolf again?

The6thMessenger, on 01 October 2023 - 09:50 PM, said:

Hang on, how TF can you put LB20X or HGR on the Jagermech arm?

So it's just shoulder, does it have extra slots instead? Or do we finally have crit-splitting?

Lockheed_, on 01 October 2023 - 10:42 PM, said:

no upper arm actuators…

[The6thMessenger]

w0qj, on 01 October 2023 - 11:47 PM, said:

If implemented, this proposed JM6-DE(L) Jagermech would be the very first IS mech able to field LBX20 or Heavy Gauss in its mech arms.

No other IS mech can do this! (I did look into this matter last year).

So what was the name of that IS version of the Dire Wolf again?

Dude. The 3062 model King Crab 005 has LB20X on each arm.

Lockheed_, on 01 October 2023 - 10:42 PM, said:

no upper arm actuators…

So it's arms are fixed and unmovable? That would be funny and sad.

[C337Skymaster]

KursedVixen, on 29 September 2023 - 09:01 PM, said:

These will all be avalible as normal heros or normal mechs without thier c-bill boost later, right?

IS case is free now.

Yes, but it's still one crit, and they already had to play funny-numbers with the Upper Arm actuator on the Jagermech in order to get the HGR to fit in the first place. There's no room for CASE on top of it. Which is another reason why HGR only ever gets mounted in the side torsos...

Solomon Birch, on 30 September 2023 - 06:00 AM, said:

Since the Clans are getting Inner Sphere 'Mechs, when is the IS getting Victor's Daishi?

It's still a Daishi. We already got the Bounty Hunter's Mad Cat, but because the 'mech equips only Clan Tech, it's been added to the Clan roster, not the IS roster where it technically belongs.

[C337Skymaster]

Der Geisterbaer, on 30 September 2023 - 12:10 PM, said:

As far as QP is concerned there's zero issues with introducing all three known special Dire Wolfs into MW:O with their original clan tech that weren't "one-off" versions:

• Victor's Prometheus
  
• Hohiro's Hohiro
  
• Natasha's actual Widowmaker

At least according to the design published in the Record Sheets, Widowmaker can be built in-game as-is, using the -W CT, any RT that has a ballistic hardpoint, any HD that has an energy slot, and any arms that have two energy hardpoints. Mine uses the -W RT and the -A and -B arms for their improved quirks.

A_4M<:N1|lB|lBp01<K7|gBq01:K7|l^|l^|l^|l^r41aE7|1C|0C|l^|l^|l^s41]E7|1C|0C|SR|SR|l^|l^tB1>K7uB1?K7|l^vB08K7|kBwL0D0D0

I'm all in favor of Prometheus or Hohiro, though, as they add new hardpoints that don't as yet exist. Whichever one adds the missile to the right torso would enable creation of the -X variant for memery, as well.

[w0qj]

Inside MWO game itself.
As I've already indicated elsewhere, I'm Battletech illiterate

w0qj, on 01 October 2023 - 11:47 PM, said:

If implemented, this proposed JM6-DE(L) Jagermech would be the very first IS mech able to field LBX20 or Heavy Gauss in its mech arms.

No other IS mech can do this! (I did look into this matter last year).

So what was the name of that IS version of the Dire Wolf again?

[martian]

Boiled Peanut Dealer, on 01 October 2023 - 08:38 PM, said:

FYI "If somebody says" Boom Jager. . JM6-A's with two AC-20s quirked to use them both. Not just any jager varient as you are pointing out.

If you have any official definiton that says that BoomJager can use only a specific variant that is specially quirked for running dual AC-20s thanks the HSL quirk, post it.

Boiled Peanut Dealer, on 01 October 2023 - 08:38 PM, said:

How many matches did you wait to screenshot that a jager was played? And you will see the DE even less than the C-bill varients after just a couple months.

I did not have to wait, since I had that guy in his BoomJager in a few games. In this particular game I just remembered that you asked the question earlier, so I took the screen capture.

Boiled Peanut Dealer, on 01 October 2023 - 08:38 PM, said:

Martian, . . Obviously regarding "play smart." This is the perennial USELESS reply of people with zero contributions. Even to cover previous horrible advice / comments. Yeah, no kidding play smart. . . anyone that has played the game more than a week knows this. They generally also know to avoid meme builds. . .

Anybody can deploy in any 'Mech that he wishes, if the game client lets him. Surprisingly, some players deploy in non-optimal 'Mechs. Sometime they achieve good results in them too.

Boiled Peanut Dealer, on 01 October 2023 - 08:38 PM, said:

You guys still miss the point that this "loyalty" mech is barely different than what already exists and won't even do the role of a boom jager better. It breaks from the tradition of loyalty mechs actually differentiating in meaningful ways and having playability that make them worth it or sets them apart. Being able to mount HeavyG and LBX20, ok that is cool and will be fun for a few matches, but the mech is useless beyond those few matches. Yes, there will be that weirdo that runs it all the time, good for them (usually this is me) and they will sit in tier 4/5 perpetually. Four weapon hardpoints total limits the build options, current stated quirks limit the mech to a role it is ALREADY outperformed by another varient of the SAME mech chasis (again breaking from traditional loyalty mechs). What don't you guys understand here? . .

Are there many 'Mechs in MWO that can run paired LBX-20s or HGRs in arms?

Boiled Peanut Dealer, on 01 October 2023 - 08:38 PM, said:

Your being dishonest about the "usefulness" of this mech. It is NOT going to be quirked for the weapons. Did you even look at the quirks or any of the math for builds before claiming this? . . . Yes, you get 200% ammo for HeavyG and LBX20. . . because it would be a 32 shot chump in addition to being a meme build without that 200%. Yes, you get the 15% cooldown, but (again) that is LESS than the boom jagers, yes there is a range quirk of 10%, (again) that is LESS than the boom jagers. . .

Range. . with those weapons and amount of ammo. . come on, seriously. Thought you were advocating for "playing smart". .

Dishonest? The 'Mech comes with HGRs and it comes with the HGR ammo quirk too. Ditto for LBX-20s and specific LBX-20 ammo quirk.

How I read it, that means that it is going to be quirked for its intended weapons.

Edited by martian, 02 October 2023 - 09:47 AM.

[Epydemic2020]

Curccu, on 29 September 2023 - 07:05 AM, said:

Jenner looks like fun... if my math isn't off by much it should be able to do 20 dps with 1 large pulse for 5-6 seconds then overheat...

The cooldown makes it so that the beam duration is .5 seconds and the cooldown is zero, so it fires twice per second and makes the math pretty straightforward.

That means the DPS is 22 and the time till overheat is ~4 seconds.
(it does 11*2 DPS, it does 7*2 hps, and it has a heat capacity of 51). Without factoring in cooling thats 3.4 seconds till overheat. With cooling it's up to to 4.5 seconds if you are standing still.

[JediPanther]

Rhaelcan, on 30 September 2023 - 07:45 PM, said:

The spider and locust cannot fit a heavy PPC, LMAO



Ah yes. 200% heavy gauss ammo and lbx20 ammo is a joke.

Show me where I mentioned hppc on those mechs. I mentioned mgs which are machine guns that the spider can mount. It can mount an ac 2 as well depending on how you build. The joke is your lack of what builds lights can and can't do.