thats not a manual, its an admission of failure.
2
Fact Play Toxic To New Players
Started by ConquerorClass, Oct 04 2023 11:13 PM
65 replies to this topic
#22
-
-
- Ace Of Spades
- 1,887 posts
Member
- LocationThe PSR basement.
Posted 05 October 2023 - 10:27 AM
Hello all,
I played ten matches in this event, and except for one drop where to opposing team was well organized, the experience was fun. Now I didn't play over the weekend when to looks like most of the better units played. In my matches there were some members from the same unit but never more than four, same for my side.
The one time we got steamrolled was on Grim Portico and we were on defence. The oppfor made a brutal coordinated push with their assault mechs in the first wave, killed our first twelve mechs and from then on the outcome was no longer in question. The rest of my matches were more chaotic but with enough organization that we were able to come out on top.
@OP,
I am in no way an expert on FP.
It is a difficult mode and there are some 'standard' practices that can make your life easier such as pushing out with your first mech when/if you kill off their first wave. Most new players won't know this unless someone is drop calling and even then, new players may decide to do something else until they have a few more matches under their belts and see effective tactics in action.
There aren't that many game modes in FP which means tactics are more formulaic, because they work.
Good hunting,
CFC Conky
I played ten matches in this event, and except for one drop where to opposing team was well organized, the experience was fun. Now I didn't play over the weekend when to looks like most of the better units played. In my matches there were some members from the same unit but never more than four, same for my side.
The one time we got steamrolled was on Grim Portico and we were on defence. The oppfor made a brutal coordinated push with their assault mechs in the first wave, killed our first twelve mechs and from then on the outcome was no longer in question. The rest of my matches were more chaotic but with enough organization that we were able to come out on top.
@OP,
I am in no way an expert on FP.
It is a difficult mode and there are some 'standard' practices that can make your life easier such as pushing out with your first mech when/if you kill off their first wave. Most new players won't know this unless someone is drop calling and even then, new players may decide to do something else until they have a few more matches under their belts and see effective tactics in action.
There aren't that many game modes in FP which means tactics are more formulaic, because they work.
Good hunting,
CFC Conky
#23
-
-
- Legendary Founder
- 4,087 posts
Member
- LocationLost in my C1
Posted 05 October 2023 - 10:28 AM
Fraction play sucks. I'm glad I quit it years ago when the major issue was spawn camping with meta mechs. Not surprising that a mode designed for meta and comp players is very anti-new players in any size group.
#24
-
-
- Wild Dog
- 374 posts
Member
Posted 05 October 2023 - 10:42 AM
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say the game, no matter the mode, is very anti-new player with comp sweatlord premades of 4 smashing teams repeatedly in QP and telling the new players that might end up on their team to 'stop sucking', 'uninstall', or 'git gud noob'.
Sure its fun to drop with friends, I do all the time, but I suck and I do my best to help any newbies out there I run into.
The absolute toxicity of the 'elite' players in this game is not only sickening and toxic but a definite indication of what kind of people they are. Very few ever take the time to try and help new players and as a direct result the ever shrinking playerbase is nearing critical mass.
New blood keeps a game going, but that seems to be lost on those in charge.
Sure its fun to drop with friends, I do all the time, but I suck and I do my best to help any newbies out there I run into.
The absolute toxicity of the 'elite' players in this game is not only sickening and toxic but a definite indication of what kind of people they are. Very few ever take the time to try and help new players and as a direct result the ever shrinking playerbase is nearing critical mass.
New blood keeps a game going, but that seems to be lost on those in charge.
Edited by Ihlrath, 05 October 2023 - 10:42 AM.
#25
-
-
- Veteran Founder
- 5,064 posts
Member
- LocationSouthern Wisconsin
Posted 05 October 2023 - 11:16 AM
Nine year old account and eight-thousand plus games equal noob?
#26
-
-
- Wild Dog
- 374 posts
Member
Posted 05 October 2023 - 11:33 AM
Never claimed I was a noob at all. Believe I even said 'I try to help out the newbies I see'.
Observed behaviors from a lot of vets out there.
Observed behaviors from a lot of vets out there.
Edited by Ihlrath, 05 October 2023 - 11:33 AM.
#27
-
-
- The Merciless
- 1,206 posts
Member
- LocationEn Route to Terra
Posted 05 October 2023 - 02:05 PM
ConquerorClass, on 04 October 2023 - 11:13 PM, said:
Rant all you want against me.
But as a "Manager" in my workplace, I see Faction play as completely toxic to New players,
segregating, isolating and frustrating.
I understand many will say "GIT GUD" or "join a team", but simply allowing a 12 man team to dominate the queue, SWAP sides and dominate again, and again... is doing a complete disservice to the mode, and hence the game...
12 mans rolling noobs like pancakes in their own deployment zone,
is completely against the spirit of the game, and a waste of my 30 minutes.
A game which has a small set of players to begin with, really shouldn't be ostracising casual or new players.
Also the whole, Your "locked out" for 30 minutes, is crazy, as when you are ABLE TO QUEUE again, that steam roller 12 man is out also, and your likely to go against them again, and again.
Where EVENTs force a play queue, I.e. current FP event, it only feeds the egos of "Win at all costs" players who need that fix, and probably do poorly Verses other 12 man comp teams.
the Faction play should be balanced by 2man teams max, and UBER dropship gunners who one shot enemy, if they are near the deploy zones, and no frigging cheese builds.
Stepping into a game Vs 12 man teams, it's over after your first failed wave.
As it stands, FACTION PLAY events will be avoided by me and many of my other casual friends.
But as a "Manager" in my workplace, I see Faction play as completely toxic to New players,
segregating, isolating and frustrating.
I understand many will say "GIT GUD" or "join a team", but simply allowing a 12 man team to dominate the queue, SWAP sides and dominate again, and again... is doing a complete disservice to the mode, and hence the game...
12 mans rolling noobs like pancakes in their own deployment zone,
is completely against the spirit of the game, and a waste of my 30 minutes.
A game which has a small set of players to begin with, really shouldn't be ostracising casual or new players.
Also the whole, Your "locked out" for 30 minutes, is crazy, as when you are ABLE TO QUEUE again, that steam roller 12 man is out also, and your likely to go against them again, and again.
Where EVENTs force a play queue, I.e. current FP event, it only feeds the egos of "Win at all costs" players who need that fix, and probably do poorly Verses other 12 man comp teams.
the Faction play should be balanced by 2man teams max, and UBER dropship gunners who one shot enemy, if they are near the deploy zones, and no frigging cheese builds.
Stepping into a game Vs 12 man teams, it's over after your first failed wave.
As it stands, FACTION PLAY events will be avoided by me and many of my other casual friends.
That may impress the Karens of the world, but no one gives a darn (I'd use different language but PGI would frown). Do you want a cookie? Do you think that you being some sort of manager at your job means you have some sort of unique insights that everyone in this community and and PGI are lacking? And when you say you're locked out... are you saying you're rage-quitting and don't want to be penalized for abandoning your team and leaving them in the lurch?
Is this a parody or... ?
#29
-
-
- Ace Of Spades
- 17,372 posts
Member
Posted 05 October 2023 - 02:53 PM
basic npe for fp (why this isnt part of "the manual" idk):
chose a deck that fits the map. if you dont have a lot of decks you can keep alternates in your favorites list or give them name thats easy to search. you have a minute to make changes so get good at doing it fast. mechs should be skilled and as meta as possible. try to avoid slow mechs (at least go 50, 60 is better).
assaults first wave, unless otherwise ordered by a commander. you will be shot at a lot opening the gates, this is where extra armor is useful.
be ready to fight when the match starts, being late will give the enemy time to gain a positional advantage. be especially mindful if you are in a slow mech.
if you got defense, find a good position to trade from. your commander may call out a location to rally at. the enemy will come to you so you dont need any heroics, just put out more damage than you receive and delay the enemy whenever possible. try to shoot any called targets. be prepared to shift positions if needed.
if you get attack, attack. dont just trade from the gates. conga line the gens, everyone takes two alphas and get out of the line of fire. there are no points for objectives, so do your share and get out of dodge. ridicule anyone who doesn't want to pull their weight, this is important.
when the gate is open move in as a group and do not stop to trade from the choke point. you will have to cross some amount of no mans land to find cover, but its important you dont block your team mates while they do the same. you will need your armor later. roll damage if at all possible.
dont reinforce unless ordered to do so by a commander. when you respawn find a rally point either indicated by a commander or just check the map to see where next wave mechs are gathering.
always shoot mechs first unless ordered to do otherwise by commander. objectives dont do much for your score, and if they do you arent shooting enough robbits.
commanders are a rare resource, use them. follow any calls and dont give them crap, this wastes time and will discourage future attempts and heading cats. shoot called targets, you can also call targets that look weak, just be brief.
support your team. this can be as simple as pressing r or shooting lights off of assaults. just being on the firing line will help.
thats certainly a lot more constructive than what amounts to "this mode isn't for you, go away".
chose a deck that fits the map. if you dont have a lot of decks you can keep alternates in your favorites list or give them name thats easy to search. you have a minute to make changes so get good at doing it fast. mechs should be skilled and as meta as possible. try to avoid slow mechs (at least go 50, 60 is better).
assaults first wave, unless otherwise ordered by a commander. you will be shot at a lot opening the gates, this is where extra armor is useful.
be ready to fight when the match starts, being late will give the enemy time to gain a positional advantage. be especially mindful if you are in a slow mech.
if you got defense, find a good position to trade from. your commander may call out a location to rally at. the enemy will come to you so you dont need any heroics, just put out more damage than you receive and delay the enemy whenever possible. try to shoot any called targets. be prepared to shift positions if needed.
if you get attack, attack. dont just trade from the gates. conga line the gens, everyone takes two alphas and get out of the line of fire. there are no points for objectives, so do your share and get out of dodge. ridicule anyone who doesn't want to pull their weight, this is important.
when the gate is open move in as a group and do not stop to trade from the choke point. you will have to cross some amount of no mans land to find cover, but its important you dont block your team mates while they do the same. you will need your armor later. roll damage if at all possible.
dont reinforce unless ordered to do so by a commander. when you respawn find a rally point either indicated by a commander or just check the map to see where next wave mechs are gathering.
always shoot mechs first unless ordered to do otherwise by commander. objectives dont do much for your score, and if they do you arent shooting enough robbits.
commanders are a rare resource, use them. follow any calls and dont give them crap, this wastes time and will discourage future attempts and heading cats. shoot called targets, you can also call targets that look weak, just be brief.
support your team. this can be as simple as pressing r or shooting lights off of assaults. just being on the firing line will help.
thats certainly a lot more constructive than what amounts to "this mode isn't for you, go away".
#30
-
-
- Ace Of Spades
- 1,887 posts
Member
- LocationThe PSR basement.
Posted 05 October 2023 - 03:18 PM
Excellent post LordNothing.
Good hunting,
CFC Conky
Good hunting,
CFC Conky
#31
-
-
- Rage
- 9,962 posts
Member
- LocationOn the farm in central Minnesota
Posted 05 October 2023 - 06:49 PM
I love post like these and am utterly disappointed that I missed out from the beginning. Alas, I will say my peace anyway though it's mostly been expressed already.
It's toxic to new players because it is not a mode for new player and never has been. New players have no business playing FP, and the warning screen when you attempt to play it ought to have made that clear.
Au contraire! While getting gud certainly helps, it is the latter part of you commentary that hits the nail on the head. FP is in fact a mode for groups of players. Even when group queue was a thing, people still insisted that FP is where groups should go to play. Apropos, I have never in all my years of playing this game seen ANY group of players who who manage to dominate a wave fail to camp the enemy base out of some sense of virtue or code of fair play. Even the most loosely organized groop of noobs will inflict this sort of beat down on their opposing noobs if give the chance. Don't fool yourself into thinking only elite 12-mans do this.
How can new or casual players be ostracized from a mode that they explicitly shouldn't be playing in the first place? Your (and my) place is in the land of quick play. You choosing to go into FP -despite the explicit warning that you have no place there- is a testament to your ignorance and/or masochism. That's cool if you are into that sort of thing, but it isn't the game's fault that you get off on ignoring the warnings.
Have you been buying every new mech pack, hero and legendary that as they are offered in order to participate in their dedicated events? No? Do these events not force you to purchase and play these mechs? No? Then why are you forced to play FP merely because of an event? Again, if you get off on the punishment of FP, that's cool, but it should not be a shock then that events drive others, especially more experienced players, to play the mode in the hopes of beating down their fellows in the manner that the mode is intended to be played.
Again the mode is explicitly designed for organized group play. There is no MM as the mode is about teams going up against teams in the best mechs and builds that they can muster. Any artificial limitation on that just turns it into...not faction play. For good or ill, this is how the mode was designed and has been implemented since 2015; that isn't going to change because you or I don't like it.
Yep. Now you're getting it. Welcome to QP!
ConquerorClass, on 04 October 2023 - 11:13 PM, said:
Rant all you want against me.
But as a "Manager" in my workplace, I see Faction play as completely toxic to New players,
segregating, isolating and frustrating.
But as a "Manager" in my workplace, I see Faction play as completely toxic to New players,
segregating, isolating and frustrating.
It's toxic to new players because it is not a mode for new player and never has been. New players have no business playing FP, and the warning screen when you attempt to play it ought to have made that clear.
ConquerorClass, on 04 October 2023 - 11:13 PM, said:
I understand many will say "GIT GUD" or "join a team", but simply allowing a 12 man team to dominate the queue, SWAP sides and dominate again, and again... is doing a complete disservice to the mode, and hence the game...
12 mans rolling noobs like pancakes in their own deployment zone,
is completely against the spirit of the game, and a waste of my 30 minutes.
12 mans rolling noobs like pancakes in their own deployment zone,
is completely against the spirit of the game, and a waste of my 30 minutes.
Au contraire! While getting gud certainly helps, it is the latter part of you commentary that hits the nail on the head. FP is in fact a mode for groups of players. Even when group queue was a thing, people still insisted that FP is where groups should go to play. Apropos, I have never in all my years of playing this game seen ANY group of players who who manage to dominate a wave fail to camp the enemy base out of some sense of virtue or code of fair play. Even the most loosely organized groop of noobs will inflict this sort of beat down on their opposing noobs if give the chance. Don't fool yourself into thinking only elite 12-mans do this.
ConquerorClass, on 04 October 2023 - 11:13 PM, said:
A game which has a small set of players to begin with, really shouldn't be ostracising casual or new players.
Also the whole, Your "locked out" for 30 minutes, is crazy, as when you are ABLE TO QUEUE again, that steam roller 12 man is out also, and your likely to go against them again, and again.
Also the whole, Your "locked out" for 30 minutes, is crazy, as when you are ABLE TO QUEUE again, that steam roller 12 man is out also, and your likely to go against them again, and again.
How can new or casual players be ostracized from a mode that they explicitly shouldn't be playing in the first place? Your (and my) place is in the land of quick play. You choosing to go into FP -despite the explicit warning that you have no place there- is a testament to your ignorance and/or masochism. That's cool if you are into that sort of thing, but it isn't the game's fault that you get off on ignoring the warnings.
ConquerorClass, on 04 October 2023 - 11:13 PM, said:
Where EVENTs force a play queue, I.e. current FP event, it only feeds the egos of "Win at all costs" players who need that fix, and probably do poorly Verses other 12 man comp teams.
Have you been buying every new mech pack, hero and legendary that as they are offered in order to participate in their dedicated events? No? Do these events not force you to purchase and play these mechs? No? Then why are you forced to play FP merely because of an event? Again, if you get off on the punishment of FP, that's cool, but it should not be a shock then that events drive others, especially more experienced players, to play the mode in the hopes of beating down their fellows in the manner that the mode is intended to be played.
ConquerorClass, on 04 October 2023 - 11:13 PM, said:
the Faction play should be balanced by 2man teams max, and UBER dropship gunners who one shot enemy, if they are near the deploy zones, and no frigging cheese builds.
Again the mode is explicitly designed for organized group play. There is no MM as the mode is about teams going up against teams in the best mechs and builds that they can muster. Any artificial limitation on that just turns it into...not faction play. For good or ill, this is how the mode was designed and has been implemented since 2015; that isn't going to change because you or I don't like it.
ConquerorClass, on 04 October 2023 - 11:13 PM, said:
Stepping into a game Vs 12 man teams, it's over after your first failed wave.
As it stands, FACTION PLAY events will be avoided by me and many of my other casual friends.
As it stands, FACTION PLAY events will be avoided by me and many of my other casual friends.
Yep. Now you're getting it. Welcome to QP!
Edited by Bud Crue, 05 October 2023 - 06:49 PM.
#32
-
-
- Liquid Metal
- 4,623 posts
Member
Posted 05 October 2023 - 10:00 PM
martian, on 05 October 2023 - 06:57 AM, said:
The Faction Play - or as they used call it "the Community Warfare" when it started - has been designed with the idea that the premades will roll over the enemy team, if given the opportunity. The majority of the CW / FP playerbase voted with their feet and left the FP sooner or later. I guess that some of them left MWO too.
Well generally most of the players have quit this game.
With simple comparison of quickplay matches played in October 2016 6,16 Million matches vs last month 1,45 Million games
JediPanther, on 05 October 2023 - 10:28 AM, said:
Fraction play sucks. I'm glad I quit it years ago when the major issue was spawn camping with meta mechs. Not surprising that a mode designed for meta and comp players is very anti-new players in any size group.
Every game mode is designed for meta, unless you wanna stay T4-5 potato with bracket builds. This is competitive PVP game... usually goal of PVP games are to win, like everything else than can be called game.
PS. Nothing to do with comp players (PGI didn't even know that word existed when they developed CW.), but surprisingly people who are very good at this game are pretty good at FP also...
#33
-
-
- Survivor
- 1,258 posts
Member
- LocationHell, otherwise known as Ohio
Posted 05 October 2023 - 10:32 PM
well first off yes FP play has always been a toxic **** hole at least as long as i have been playing so in this i agree with the OP.
to those who say that noobs or casuals should stay out then they should remove all those nice extra rewards for playing FP that draw in those new players. (i know back when i was still a newbie the big draw for FP was those free mech bays, hell i even had a trial mech in my first drop deck because back then they didn't give out anywhere near the MC and other rewards as they do today so getting enough mech bays to put together a FP drop deck was a whole lot harder. hell there were only two or three events the whole year (mind you they were Loot bag events so there is that)). this would likely stop any new players at all from ever even considering the mode so the toxic "elite" can just stay in FP and watch the match search screen for hours
(Edit: in this i can see the state of FP chasing off new players as they play for a while, perhaps a couple weeks, thinking its like most other PvP games where once you get the hang of the basics its not a big leap to "gittin gud". then thinking they got a handle on things see this other mode and see the free mech bays and other rewards and figure they will give it a go as soon as they can manage to get 4 mechs from the same faction all skilled up and can fill a drop deck (the bare minimum for entry). as soon as they enter an actual match they get steam rolled and/or treated like **** by the toxic elitists. many will just leave the game entirely after this. (this is exactly what has happened to most of those i used to try and get to give the game a try. anymore if i suggest MWO to new people i just tell the to avoid FP because its not worth it))
honestly i think the best thing that could improve FP as it sits today (we don't have the population for making 2 Fp ques so i my best idea wont work) would be to restrict group size to no more than 4 (while still allowing as many groups as can be fit). then again the toxic Elitist mind set has already nearly killed the mode so why bother at all, no amount of game alteration will change this.
in all honestly it is new players and casuals that keep this game running and having a population large enough to bother logging on. the so called "elite" players and the comps probably take up less than 10% of the total game population (likely closer to 5% but being so vocal makes it seem like more). even among t1s its still likely only around 50% that would consider themselves "elite" or comp. yet it is this minority that are the most toxic and vocal in any game not just MWO. our slowly declining population here just distills this down making it worse and worse (though in all fairness at least MWO isn't as bad as some games where closer to 80% of the population are toxic d-bags)
(it would be interesting to see a forum poll on it but the results wouldn't be very accurate seeing as so few lower tier or new players seem to even look at the forums,)
to those who say that noobs or casuals should stay out then they should remove all those nice extra rewards for playing FP that draw in those new players. (i know back when i was still a newbie the big draw for FP was those free mech bays, hell i even had a trial mech in my first drop deck because back then they didn't give out anywhere near the MC and other rewards as they do today so getting enough mech bays to put together a FP drop deck was a whole lot harder. hell there were only two or three events the whole year (mind you they were Loot bag events so there is that)). this would likely stop any new players at all from ever even considering the mode so the toxic "elite" can just stay in FP and watch the match search screen for hours
(Edit: in this i can see the state of FP chasing off new players as they play for a while, perhaps a couple weeks, thinking its like most other PvP games where once you get the hang of the basics its not a big leap to "gittin gud". then thinking they got a handle on things see this other mode and see the free mech bays and other rewards and figure they will give it a go as soon as they can manage to get 4 mechs from the same faction all skilled up and can fill a drop deck (the bare minimum for entry). as soon as they enter an actual match they get steam rolled and/or treated like **** by the toxic elitists. many will just leave the game entirely after this. (this is exactly what has happened to most of those i used to try and get to give the game a try. anymore if i suggest MWO to new people i just tell the to avoid FP because its not worth it))
honestly i think the best thing that could improve FP as it sits today (we don't have the population for making 2 Fp ques so i my best idea wont work) would be to restrict group size to no more than 4 (while still allowing as many groups as can be fit). then again the toxic Elitist mind set has already nearly killed the mode so why bother at all, no amount of game alteration will change this.
in all honestly it is new players and casuals that keep this game running and having a population large enough to bother logging on. the so called "elite" players and the comps probably take up less than 10% of the total game population (likely closer to 5% but being so vocal makes it seem like more). even among t1s its still likely only around 50% that would consider themselves "elite" or comp. yet it is this minority that are the most toxic and vocal in any game not just MWO. our slowly declining population here just distills this down making it worse and worse (though in all fairness at least MWO isn't as bad as some games where closer to 80% of the population are toxic d-bags)
(it would be interesting to see a forum poll on it but the results wouldn't be very accurate seeing as so few lower tier or new players seem to even look at the forums,)
Edited by VeeOt Dragon, 05 October 2023 - 10:46 PM.
#34
-
-
- Ace Of Spades
- 1,243 posts
Member
Posted 05 October 2023 - 10:46 PM
Funny how u can see this exactly from the opposite side as well.
I always baffle how new players stumble in FP mode (I realise no one read warning signs), get their tooth crushed in repeatedly and fail to realise, that a. A they might not be ready for it b. perhaps their load out and gameplan has some flaws C. Try to read guide or get in touch with established players to learn. Despite your claims it's not rly toxicity u face, but frustration about the amount of special snowflake (getting salty is always a good sign to end the night).
I have rarely seen a game like MWO where u could jump in pretty much every units coms and if (u are willing to listen) get coaching from one of the top teams. But like u mentioned insist on bringing clag and suboptimal builds at best, and expect the mode and community to change around your likings.
The event was an perfect opportunity for newer players to test. Out of my 42 matches like 4 where vs pre-made and one vs 12 man kdmc.
I always baffle how new players stumble in FP mode (I realise no one read warning signs), get their tooth crushed in repeatedly and fail to realise, that a. A they might not be ready for it b. perhaps their load out and gameplan has some flaws C. Try to read guide or get in touch with established players to learn. Despite your claims it's not rly toxicity u face, but frustration about the amount of special snowflake (getting salty is always a good sign to end the night).
I have rarely seen a game like MWO where u could jump in pretty much every units coms and if (u are willing to listen) get coaching from one of the top teams. But like u mentioned insist on bringing clag and suboptimal builds at best, and expect the mode and community to change around your likings.
The event was an perfect opportunity for newer players to test. Out of my 42 matches like 4 where vs pre-made and one vs 12 man kdmc.
Edited by Ignatius Audene, 05 October 2023 - 10:58 PM.
#35
-
-
- Survivor
- 1,258 posts
Member
- LocationHell, otherwise known as Ohio
Posted 05 October 2023 - 11:47 PM
i have had the exact opposite experience. instead off helping every unit i joined or talked to back in the day gave very little actual help. they were just toxic.
instead of looking at say a suboptimal build and saying "ok i see what you are trying for. if you tweak it this way it will work much better" you get "how dare you bring that garbage, you should only use this build on that mech and nothing else" or "you should never use that mech at all use this one with only this build instead." (i wont even start on how they act if you bring LRM even if you do tons of damage and get good kills, mind you at least back then they hadn't been nerfed to hell and back)
(though i will admit that when i started Playing with SnugglesTime and his crew things were better but it wasn't a unit it was just a youtuber and a handle of regulars that played together. oh we disagreed on a few fundamental base rules for builds (such as me tending to go for a little more back armor than most) but that group was actually helpful. they weren't a Unit or anything and only played FP on rare occasion. i took me quite a while though before i ran into them. honestly if i remember right i was almost ready to just give up on the game because i didn't want to deal with the crap before that)
instead of looking at say a suboptimal build and saying "ok i see what you are trying for. if you tweak it this way it will work much better" you get "how dare you bring that garbage, you should only use this build on that mech and nothing else" or "you should never use that mech at all use this one with only this build instead." (i wont even start on how they act if you bring LRM even if you do tons of damage and get good kills, mind you at least back then they hadn't been nerfed to hell and back)
(though i will admit that when i started Playing with SnugglesTime and his crew things were better but it wasn't a unit it was just a youtuber and a handle of regulars that played together. oh we disagreed on a few fundamental base rules for builds (such as me tending to go for a little more back armor than most) but that group was actually helpful. they weren't a Unit or anything and only played FP on rare occasion. i took me quite a while though before i ran into them. honestly if i remember right i was almost ready to just give up on the game because i didn't want to deal with the crap before that)
Edited by VeeOt Dragon, 05 October 2023 - 11:52 PM.
#36
-
-
- Ace Of Spades
- 17,372 posts
Member
Posted 06 October 2023 - 05:43 AM
really depends on the unit. ive dropped with some great ones, and ive dropped with less great ones. the ones who want to win at any cost, such as gerrymandering the queue so they only drop against pugs, always dropping defense (aka easy mode), using cheats (one particular fp unit led to the biggest banwave this game has seen), etc. these are the units that ruined fp. there are other units who will switch sides if the queues seem lopsided by either skill or population and will generally help new players. ive seen both extremes.
i think it may be time for another banwave. this wont fix fp, the damage is done, but it would greatly improve the game.
in before "but muh population!". population would be better if these ******* weren't constantly brutalizing new players.
i think it may be time for another banwave. this wont fix fp, the damage is done, but it would greatly improve the game.
in before "but muh population!". population would be better if these ******* weren't constantly brutalizing new players.
Edited by LordNothing, 06 October 2023 - 05:45 AM.
#37
-
-
- Ace Of Spades
- 8,574 posts
Member
Posted 06 October 2023 - 05:52 AM
Curccu, on 05 October 2023 - 10:00 PM, said:
Well generally most of the players have quit this game.
With simple comparison of quickplay matches played in October 2016 6,16 Million matches vs last month 1,45 Million games
With simple comparison of quickplay matches played in October 2016 6,16 Million matches vs last month 1,45 Million games
Do you have similar numbers for the Faction Play, so we could compare them?
#38
-
-
- Liquid Metal
- 4,623 posts
Member
Posted 06 October 2023 - 11:30 AM
martian, on 06 October 2023 - 05:52 AM, said:
Do you have similar numbers for the Faction Play, so we could compare them?
Nope, but I have played more and less FP since it was released and not many units around in there nowadays... I'd guestimate that 90-95% of FP players have quit playing if not even more.
#39
-
-
- Liquid Metal
- 4,623 posts
Member
Posted 06 October 2023 - 11:37 AM
VeeOt Dragon, on 05 October 2023 - 10:32 PM, said:
well first off yes FP play has always been a toxic **** hole at least as long as i have been playing so in this i agree with the OP.
to those who say that noobs or casuals should stay out then they should remove all those nice extra rewards for playing FP that draw in those new players. (i know back when i was still a newbie the big draw for FP was those free mech bays, hell i even had a trial mech in my first drop deck because back then they didn't give out anywhere near the MC and other rewards as they do today so getting enough mech bays to put together a FP drop deck was a whole lot harder. hell there were only two or three events the whole year (mind you they were Loot bag events so there is that)). this would likely stop any new players at all from ever even considering the mode so the toxic "elite" can just stay in FP and watch the match search screen for hours
(Edit: in this i can see the state of FP chasing off new players as they play for a while, perhaps a couple weeks, thinking its like most other PvP games where once you get the hang of the basics its not a big leap to "gittin gud". then thinking they got a handle on things see this other mode and see the free mech bays and other rewards and figure they will give it a go as soon as they can manage to get 4 mechs from the same faction all skilled up and can fill a drop deck (the bare minimum for entry). as soon as they enter an actual match they get steam rolled and/or treated like **** by the toxic elitists. many will just leave the game entirely after this. (this is exactly what has happened to most of those i used to try and get to give the game a try. anymore if i suggest MWO to new people i just tell the to avoid FP because its not worth it))
honestly i think the best thing that could improve FP as it sits today (we don't have the population for making 2 Fp ques so i my best idea wont work) would be to restrict group size to no more than 4 (while still allowing as many groups as can be fit). then again the toxic Elitist mind set has already nearly killed the mode so why bother at all, no amount of game alteration will change this.
in all honestly it is new players and casuals that keep this game running and having a population large enough to bother logging on. the so called "elite" players and the comps probably take up less than 10% of the total game population (likely closer to 5% but being so vocal makes it seem like more). even among t1s its still likely only around 50% that would consider themselves "elite" or comp. yet it is this minority that are the most toxic and vocal in any game not just MWO. our slowly declining population here just distills this down making it worse and worse (though in all fairness at least MWO isn't as bad as some games where closer to 80% of the population are toxic d-bags)
(it would be interesting to see a forum poll on it but the results wouldn't be very accurate seeing as so few lower tier or new players seem to even look at the forums,)
to those who say that noobs or casuals should stay out then they should remove all those nice extra rewards for playing FP that draw in those new players. (i know back when i was still a newbie the big draw for FP was those free mech bays, hell i even had a trial mech in my first drop deck because back then they didn't give out anywhere near the MC and other rewards as they do today so getting enough mech bays to put together a FP drop deck was a whole lot harder. hell there were only two or three events the whole year (mind you they were Loot bag events so there is that)). this would likely stop any new players at all from ever even considering the mode so the toxic "elite" can just stay in FP and watch the match search screen for hours
(Edit: in this i can see the state of FP chasing off new players as they play for a while, perhaps a couple weeks, thinking its like most other PvP games where once you get the hang of the basics its not a big leap to "gittin gud". then thinking they got a handle on things see this other mode and see the free mech bays and other rewards and figure they will give it a go as soon as they can manage to get 4 mechs from the same faction all skilled up and can fill a drop deck (the bare minimum for entry). as soon as they enter an actual match they get steam rolled and/or treated like **** by the toxic elitists. many will just leave the game entirely after this. (this is exactly what has happened to most of those i used to try and get to give the game a try. anymore if i suggest MWO to new people i just tell the to avoid FP because its not worth it))
honestly i think the best thing that could improve FP as it sits today (we don't have the population for making 2 Fp ques so i my best idea wont work) would be to restrict group size to no more than 4 (while still allowing as many groups as can be fit). then again the toxic Elitist mind set has already nearly killed the mode so why bother at all, no amount of game alteration will change this.
in all honestly it is new players and casuals that keep this game running and having a population large enough to bother logging on. the so called "elite" players and the comps probably take up less than 10% of the total game population (likely closer to 5% but being so vocal makes it seem like more). even among t1s its still likely only around 50% that would consider themselves "elite" or comp. yet it is this minority that are the most toxic and vocal in any game not just MWO. our slowly declining population here just distills this down making it worse and worse (though in all fairness at least MWO isn't as bad as some games where closer to 80% of the population are toxic d-bags)
(it would be interesting to see a forum poll on it but the results wouldn't be very accurate seeing as so few lower tier or new players seem to even look at the forums,)
Your toxicity towards FP players and comps is well pretty damn toxic.
#40
-
-
- Wild Dog
- 374 posts
Member
Posted 06 October 2023 - 05:15 PM
LordNothing, on 05 October 2023 - 02:53 PM, said:
commanders are a rare resource, use them. follow any calls and dont give them crap, this wastes time and will discourage future attempts and heading cats. shoot called targets, you can also call targets that look weak, just be brief.
Maaaaan, you hit the nail on the head right here. Too many smart *** Chads wanna argue and ***** when someone actually tries to make a plan or take command. Its infuriating because then those same dudes are usually the ones running face first into a wall of armor and teeth then bitching at the team.
Commanders and anyone willing to take that chance, I always give them the benefit of the doubt and follow orders even if I don't think its a particularly good plan. Because I sure as hell can't make good calls I'm not gonna give someone crap about trying.
Excellent point LordNothing.
4 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 4 guests, 0 anonymous users
