8 replies to this topic

[ESC 907]

So there are three lances per team in each match, what if Conquest was changed to have three objectives? I believe it would be interesting to see how that would influence gameplay.

[D V Devnull]

Strange, but I kind of disagree here.......

Ever since about January 2021 having passed, I've felt like the number of Conquest Points should be expanded, with 5 as a hard baseline for those normal-sized maps on the roster. On the larger fields, it seems like having more locations to control — like 7+ at a minimum — would be better for gameplay. Further, it might assist some people to become more adept at the mode, along with being more versed at how to navigate these various maps. Many of those larger maps seem to constantly have their space underused, so expanding the number of locations which players need travel to seems completely proper. Or at least, that is what Conquest gives me the impression of needing anyway.

About the only places for which dropping Conquest Points to so low as 3 might be of use? Maybe those smaller classic-type maps which are not all available at this time... (e.g. "Forest Colony Classic" and its' Snow-y counterpart too which are currently missing, along with "Frozen City Night Classic" which is still present...) But unfortunately, it happens that I very much fear doing so would end up inducing easy one-sided stomps which will ruin Conquest Mode for many players, and unnecessarily make people want Conquest's gameplay removed entirely. Or is that what you're aiming for? We certainly do not need such happening, as it's already common knowledge that 2 rather good game modes — Incursion & Escort — were removed in the last few years, and all they needed were some changes of design & mechanics in order to avoid their loss.

~D. V. "thinking that more Conquest Points on those larger Maps is a better way to go" Devnull



(p.s.: Don't get me started on Skirmish either please, because I've felt for far longer like that game mode needs to die because all those others are designed with predication of devolving into it... In a game which is meant to be fun, no mode should ever be meant to actively enforce suffering for others, such as how Skirmish is built with the idea of shoehorning it... We're probably bleeding players which could have been retained simply because of that one mode's harsh unfriendly design, let alone how nobody is capable of being kind towards new people or even willing to communicate with their Team in general... Argh... I'm already getting into a rant!!!)

[KursedVixen]

how about this instead give us an actual benifit aside from gaining points for capturing a point once the point is on your side you get a slow rearm and repair, getting shot stops this same as it stopping the cap or maybe it only does this when fully capped?

[ESC 907]

D V Devnull, on 21 October 2023 - 05:56 AM, said:

Strange, but I kind of disagree here.......

Ever since about January 2021 having passed, I've felt like the number of Conquest Points should be expanded, with 5 as a hard baseline for those normal-sized maps on the roster. On the larger fields, it seems like having more locations to control — like 7+ at a minimum — would be better for gameplay. Further, it might assist some people to become more adept at the mode, along with being more versed at how to navigate these various maps. Many of those larger maps seem to constantly have their space underused, so expanding the number of locations which players need travel to seems completely proper. Or at least, that is what Conquest gives me the impression of needing anyway.

About the only places for which dropping Conquest Points to so low as 3 might be of use? Maybe those smaller classic-type maps which are not all available at this time... (e.g. "Forest Colony Classic" and its' Snow-y counterpart too which are currently missing, along with "Frozen City Night Classic" which is still present...) But unfortunately, it happens that I very much fear doing so would end up inducing easy one-sided stomps which will ruin Conquest Mode for many players, and unnecessarily make people want Conquest's gameplay removed entirely. Or is that what you're aiming for? We certainly do not need such happening, as it's already common knowledge that 2 rather good game modes — Incursion & Escort — were removed in the last few years, and all they needed were some changes of design & mechanics in order to avoid their loss.

~D. V. "thinking that more Conquest Points on those larger Maps is a better way to go" Devnull



(p.s.: Don't get me started on Skirmish either please, because I've felt for far longer like that game mode needs to die because all those others are designed with predication of devolving into it... In a game which is meant to be fun, no mode should ever be meant to actively enforce suffering for others, such as how Skirmish is built with the idea of shoehorning it... We're probably bleeding players which could have been retained simply because of that one mode's harsh unfriendly design, let alone how nobody is capable of being kind towards new people or even willing to communicate with their Team in general... Argh... I'm already getting into a rant!!!)

I just feel that I need to point out that the point that Incursion and Escort are good gamemodes is something that most players would disagree with. ESPECIALLY Escort.

On the other hand, I agree in the point that there should be some other incentive to capping points. What if holding a point would allow a slow recuperation of ammo? Maybe more points = more ammo reload? Maybe holding *n*-number of points would allow for ECM coverage or something? Though I believe that making it such that different points grant different bonuses would lead to a clear favoritism for which points to hold, and devolve into a Domination match for said point(s).

Edited by ESC 907, 21 October 2023 - 04:07 PM.

[KursedVixen]

ESC 907, on 21 October 2023 - 04:06 PM, said:

I just feel that I need to point out that the point that Incursion and Escort are good gamemodes is something that most players would disagree with. ESPECIALLY Escort.

On the other hand, I agree in the point that there should be some other incentive to capping points. What if holding a point would allow a slow recuperation of ammo? Maybe more points = more ammo reload? Maybe holding *n*-number of points would allow for ECM coverage or something? Though I believe that making it such that different points grant different bonuses would lead to a clear favoritism for which points to hold, and devolve into a Domination match for said point(s).

small laser turrets that defend the point when it's fully captured needs to be destroyed to start caping?

[epikt]

KursedVixen, on 21 October 2023 - 09:04 AM, said:

how about this instead give us an actual benifit aside from gaining points for capturing a point once the point is on your side you get a slow rearm and repair, getting shot stops this same as it stopping the cap or maybe it only does this when fully capped?

ESC 907, on 21 October 2023 - 04:06 PM, said:

What if holding a point would allow a slow recuperation of ammo? Maybe more points = more ammo reload? Maybe holding *n*-number of points would allow for ECM coverage or something? Though I believe that making it such that different points grant different bonuses would lead to a clear favoritism for which points to hold, and devolve into a Domination match for said point(s).

KursedVixen, on 22 October 2023 - 02:26 AM, said:

small laser turrets that defend the point when it's fully captured needs to be destroyed to start caping?

Please no.

This is plain bad game design.

All this would do is reinforce the advantage of the winning team. In other words, a positive feedback loop, meaning the more you win the easier it is for you.
MWO is already heavy on the positive feedback, mostly because of no respawn, it doesn't need more.

[KursedVixen]

epikt, on 22 October 2023 - 04:10 AM, said:

Please no.

This is plain bad game design.

All this would do is reinforce the advantage of the winning team. In other words, a positive feedback loop, meaning the more you win the easier it is for you.
MWO is already heavy on the positive feedback, mostly because of no respawn, it doesn't need more.

assault had 4 turrets at the base originally.

i'm guessing your one of the whiny light pilots who didn't have the skill to destroy all four without dieing?

Edited by KursedVixen, 22 October 2023 - 04:47 AM.

[epikt]

I too could lower myself by personally attack you on your very average ranking not really making you the best person to talk about skill, but I'll just say you didn't read me and your point is absolutely not a response to my post.

[D V Devnull]

ESC 907, on 21 October 2023 - 04:06 PM, said:

I just feel that I need to point out that the point that Incursion and Escort are good gamemodes is something that most players would disagree with. ESPECIALLY Escort.

Okay... This is asking to get answered...

As I mentioned, they needed some fixes to avoid their loss, and ultimately make those modes more likeable by everyone... Put simply...

• Escort — Needed to be made symmetrical, and the number of Towers expanded as well. What hurt this mode the worst was not giving BOTH of the Teams present one VIP Mech each to protect. This resulted in Events where some people kept getting the wrong side of the randomizer, preventing them from completing Challenges and thereby causing the massive hate against Escort in general. Like I said, merely fixing this mode would have ended a lot of the unnecessary hate and made people happy.
  
• Incursion — This one needed a little more work to help it survive. For starters, not enough of the Maps even had an Incursion version, which made it near-impossible to get in many situations. Add to this that the Base Targets & Turrets were all non-lockable, and should have all been designed such that TAG & NARC could make them lockable with things like Streak SRMs (by extension, those LRMs & ATMs would become lock-capable, but it would require some Teamwork if the Lock-On Missile User didn't have LOS on their own) so that those weapons were not wrongfully left out in the cold. Perhaps even the ACT (Air Control Tower, if I remember right?) should have been able to call a Dropship which could do some Base Damage actively, even if limited to only minimal for balancing reasons, in order to incur pressure on not letting the OpFor get those Fuel Cells as much. Again, a thing that could have stayed around better had it received some fixes.

...but since some people (probably mostly @ PGI) could not put out the effort to fix what was wrong, we therefore ended up unnecessarily losing Incursion & Escort when that should not have happened. Not much more we can say at this point, because I've heard rumor via these Forums that someone outside the MWO Development Team is choking off their ability to do what should have been done. Unfortunately in the end, we the players all get to suffer for it!

~D. V. "If only Incursion & Escort modes had received needed fixes... Now we'll never see them played right!" Devnull