235 replies to this topic

[Voice of Kerensky]

I want to talk a little about the nerf to Clan ECM that was made last month. I apologize, the text will be very long. However, despite this, I considered it necessary to write it and post it on the forum.
I'll start with the reason why Clan ECM was nerfed. According to the statements of those responsible, this was done to maintain the balance of equipment Clans vs IS. I.e. Clan ECM should be nerfed because their mechs are easier to equip with ECM (which is true in a sense).
I will subject this reason to some analysis (first part). Based on the fact that the reason for the nerf is about the balance of Clans vs IS, I conclude that this concerns the Faction Play mode.
Now I propose to consider all weight categories of mechs in order to understand which ECM-mechs the factions lack. The technique is simple: I look at the weight category and the type of weapon mech carries (i.e. his role on the battlefield).

Lights.
Fast SRM-Mech:
COM-2D, JVN-11B.
Fast close range energy mech:
FLE-20, LCT-PB.
Fast/medium-fast close range energy mech:
WLF-GR, UM-R80
Fast/medium-fast mid-range energy mech:
WLF-GR, UM-R80
Fast/medium-fast mid/long range energy mech:
RVN-3L (+ imbalanced NARC), SDR-5D, WLF-GR.
As we can see from this list, the IS lacks a fast mech with powerful machine gun weapons (6-8xMG + 4x energy). As well as medium-fast mech with 3-4xAMS. In all other main niches, the IS has a good, competitive light mech.
And, if you decided to talk about the issue of balance, then let's be fair and pay attention to the problem of why the IS has an advantage in a fast, SRM-ECM mech. The Clans do not have such mech.

Mediums.
Fast/medium-fast SRM-mech:
ASN-27 (in combination with energy weapons), ASN-DD (in combination with energy weapons), GRF-2N.
Fast/medium-fast close range energy mech:
HCT-6D, HSN-7D2, HSN-7D (in combination with missile weapons), HSN-8E (in combination with missile weapons), PXH-1B, PXH-2.
Fast/medium-fast mid/long range mech:
CDA-3M, ENF-GH, PXH-1B, PXH-2.
In principle, the IS has almost everything you need. You can optionally add a fast/medium-fast SRM-mech (6xSRM). Also, IS can be given jumping medium-fast long-range mech (2-3x energy) with high hardpoints.
If we talk about a fair balance, it should be noted that the Clans do not have a medium-fast medium mech of 5-6 MPL.

Heavys.
Close range multi-missile mech:
CRD-7L.
Mid-range energy mech:
ARC-T, CTF-0XP, TNS-HA, TDR-10E, WHM-4L.
Long range energy mech:
MAD-9M, WHM-4L, TNS-4S, TNS-4P.
Mid/long range ballistic mech:
TNS-5S.
Looking at the list above, we can conclude that the IS lacks heavy energy (6-8x energy) 70-75 tons mech of mid/long range mech with really good (high) hardpoints. Also, the IS lacks heavy 70-75 tons of ballistic (4-6xAC) mid/long range mech with really good (high) hardpoints.

Assaults.
Short/mid-range mech:
AS7-D-DC, AS7-K3, CP-11-P, FNR-5, FNR-5B, FNR-5T, FNR-VR, HTM-28TR.
Mid-range ballistic mech:
FNR-5, FNR-5T, NSR-10P.
Mid-range energy mech:
STK-3FB.
Long-range mech:
FNR-5, FNR-5B, FNR-5T, MAD-4L, STK-3FB.
And again it is clear that the IS has more than enough competitive assault mechs with ECM.
Perhaps the IS lacks multi-missile 85-95 tons mech. Also, the IS lacks 90 tons of energy (8x energy) mid/long range mech with good hardpoints. And the IS lacks 90-100 tons of ballistic (6x ballistics) mech.
And once again I would like to remind you that if we are talking about a fair balance, we must pay attention to the fact that the Clans do not have 100-ton mech with good (high) ballistic (4x ballistics) hardpoints.
Also, when you're a cauldron/PGI talking about balance, why not remember that the IS has a unique stealth technology that the Clans don't have?

The second part of my analysis will focus on the specific decisions made. The developers told us that the nerph Clan ECM was caused by the need to balance the Clan/IS equipment (very likely in the FP). But they hit all game modes with a nerfhammer:
FP, QP, EQ.
And, if for FP this decision can be called fair with a very big stretch, then, for example, for EQ it is an absolute imbalance. Imagine EQ Solaris 1 vs 1. The clan ECM-mech goes against the IS ECM-mech. It is obvious that the IS ECM-mech receives an unjustified advantage. Would you agree with this? But this is still a small thing. This is just Solaris 1 vs 1. But the ECM Clan was also hit with a nerf in the quick play, in which, let me remind you, there are no factions. There, in one team there are IS ECM-less mechs (!) under the cover (!) Clans ECM-mechs (!). I.e. amidst all the talk about the supposedly fair balance of factions in the half-dead game mode, you deprived the ECM Clan of cover for the IS ECM-less mechs in the main, most popular game mode. Just think about it: you supposedly care about injustice towards IS mechs in the game, but you yourself deprive the same IS mechs of cover Clan ECM in a quick play.
And, taking this into account, only two disappointing conclusions can be drawn:
1) Either this decision was made by not very smart people who think in very narrow terms and are not able to logically continue the consequences of their actions. And within the cauldron/PGI there was no person who could point out the obvious logical discrepancy between the identified problem and the measures taken to eliminate it and their consequences.
2) Either the officially proposed reason for the nerf to the Clan ECM is a ridiculous attempt to deceive the community. But the real reason for the decision was completely different.
People don't like it when something is taken from them. But people love new things. My suggestion. No more nerfs. Let's remember the first part of my analysis. Make new packs of ECM mechs. You can call them nicely, for example, “Ghost Defenders”.

Ghost Defenders IS first wave:
1) Light fast ballistic (6-8xMG + 4x energy) mech;
2) Medium fast/medium-fast missile mech (6xSRM);
3) Heavy energy (6-8x energy) 70-75 tons mid/long range mech with really good (high) hardpoints;
4) Assault 90-100 tons ballistic (6x ballistics) mech.

Ghost Defenders IS second wave:
1) Medium-fast light mech for 3 AMS.
2) Medium jumping medium-fast long-range mech (2-3x energy) with high hardpoints.
3) Heavy 70-75 tons ballistic (4-6xAC) mid/long range mech with really good (high) hardpoints.
4) Assault multi-missile 85-95 tons mech.
5) Assault energy (8x energy) mid/long range 90 tons mech with good hardpoints.

And, if you're really concerned about balance, you can give the Clans mechs they don't have.
Clans Ghost Invaders Trinity:
1) Fast light mech with 6 missiles (INC?);
2) Medium-fast medium mech for 5-6 MPL (HBK-IIC).
3) Assault (4x ballistics) 100 ton mech with high hardpoints (KDK-3?).

You can make these mechs paid at the first stage and then introduce them into the game for C-Bills (as was the case with previous packs, for example, Striker or Predator).
Search in Lore, find suitable mechs. If there are no such mechs in Lore, invent them yourself. After all, you have already made mechs that have nothing to do with Lore.

I would also like to suggest a small equipment expansion. Or rather, consumables.
In addition to the existing UAV, you can make one or two more UAVs:
1) UAV-jammer. A UAV that jams the enemy mechs it hovers over;
2) UAV-ECM. A UAV that covers the ECM of the allied mechs it hovers over;
3) UAV-hybrid is a universal hybrid of the first two UAVs. The ECM covers allied mechs and jammer with enemy mechs.

But to avoid devaluing existing UAV, new UAVs should not be able to targeting enemy mechs, and should they be permanently visible on radar, unlike existing UAV.
In principle, the UAVs I propose must be technically feasible. An existing UAV has its own very short range ECM, so an ECM-UAV shouldn't be a big problem - just need to increase its range.
UAV-jammer in general is also a solvable problem. After all, we are all familiar with the jammer towers from the incursion mode, and the usual ECM on the mechs also gives the necessary jamm effect for lock-on weapons.

Command wheel sound pack.
You could upgrade and diversify the radio traffic made through the command wheel.
To do this, you can take the corresponding cues from the game MW5 Mercs and add them to MWO. It’s also possible that you could add another item to the game settings: “Gender of voice in command wheel: male, female, random (default)”. So that the player can specify in the settings the gender of the voice that will be used to exchange commands in the game.
I'm giving you these ideas away for free, but if you want to thank me with some cool mech, I won't refuse .
I hope that my thoughts, ideas and suggestions will seem interesting and worthy of discussion, and will also find a place in the game.

[Staude Coston]

Voice of Kerensky, on 21 October 2023 - 08:05 PM, said:

I want to talk a little about the nerf to Clan ECM that was made last month. I apologize, the text will be very long. However, despite this, I considered it necessary to write it and post it on the forum.
I'll start with the reason why Clan ECM was nerfed. According to the statements of those responsible, this was done to maintain the balance of equipment Clans vs IS. I.e. Clan ECM should be nerfed because their mechs are easier to equip with ECM (which is true in a sense).
I will subject this reason to some analysis (first part). Based on the fact that the reason for the nerf is about the balance of Clans vs IS, I conclude that this concerns the Faction Play mode.
Now I propose to consider all weight categories of mechs in order to understand which ECM-mechs the factions lack. The technique is simple: I look at the weight category and the type of weapon mech carries (i.e. his role on the battlefield).

Lights.
Fast SRM-Mech:
COM-2D, JVN-11B.
Fast close range energy mech:
FLE-20, LCT-PB.
Fast/medium-fast close range energy mech:
WLF-GR, UM-R80
Fast/medium-fast mid-range energy mech:
WLF-GR, UM-R80
Fast/medium-fast mid/long range energy mech:
RVN-3L (+ imbalanced NARC), SDR-5D, WLF-GR.
As we can see from this list, the IS lacks a fast mech with powerful machine gun weapons (6-8xMG + 4x energy). As well as medium-fast mech with 3-4xAMS. In all other main niches, the IS has a good, competitive light mech.
And, if you decided to talk about the issue of balance, then let's be fair and pay attention to the problem of why the IS has an advantage in a fast, SRM-ECM mech. The Clans do not have such mech.

Mediums.
Fast/medium-fast SRM-mech:
ASN-27 (in combination with energy weapons), ASN-DD (in combination with energy weapons), GRF-2N.
Fast/medium-fast close range energy mech:
HCT-6D, HSN-7D2, HSN-7D (in combination with missile weapons), HSN-8E (in combination with missile weapons), PXH-1B, PXH-2.
Fast/medium-fast mid/long range mech:
CDA-3M, ENF-GH, PXH-1B, PXH-2.
In principle, the IS has almost everything you need. You can optionally add a fast/medium-fast SRM-mech (6xSRM). Also, IS can be given jumping medium-fast long-range mech (2-3x energy) with high hardpoints.
If we talk about a fair balance, it should be noted that the Clans do not have a medium-fast medium mech of 5-6 MPL.

Heavys.
Close range multi-missile mech:
CRD-7L.
Mid-range energy mech:
ARC-T, CTF-0XP, TNS-HA, TDR-10E, WHM-4L.
Long range energy mech:
MAD-9M, WHM-4L, TNS-4S, TNS-4P.
Mid/long range ballistic mech:
TNS-5S.
Looking at the list above, we can conclude that the IS lacks heavy energy (6-8x energy) 70-75 tons mech of mid/long range mech with really good (high) hardpoints. Also, the IS lacks heavy 70-75 tons of ballistic (4-6xAC) mid/long range mech with really good (high) hardpoints.

Assaults.
Short/mid-range mech:
AS7-D-DC, AS7-K3, CP-11-P, FNR-5, FNR-5B, FNR-5T, FNR-VR, HTM-28TR.
Mid-range ballistic mech:
FNR-5, FNR-5T, NSR-10P.
Mid-range energy mech:
STK-3FB.
Long-range mech:
FNR-5, FNR-5B, FNR-5T, MAD-4L, STK-3FB.
And again it is clear that the IS has more than enough competitive assault mechs with ECM.
Perhaps the IS lacks multi-missile 85-95 tons mech. Also, the IS lacks 90 tons of energy (8x energy) mid/long range mech with good hardpoints. And the IS lacks 90-100 tons of ballistic (6x ballistics) mech.
And once again I would like to remind you that if we are talking about a fair balance, we must pay attention to the fact that the Clans do not have 100-ton mech with good (high) ballistic (4x ballistics) hardpoints.
Also, when you're a cauldron/PGI talking about balance, why not remember that the IS has a unique stealth technology that the Clans don't have?

The second part of my analysis will focus on the specific decisions made. The developers told us that the nerph Clan ECM was caused by the need to balance the Clan/IS equipment (very likely in the FP). But they hit all game modes with a nerfhammer:
FP, QP, EQ.
And, if for FP this decision can be called fair with a very big stretch, then, for example, for EQ it is an absolute imbalance. Imagine EQ Solaris 1 vs 1. The clan ECM-mech goes against the IS ECM-mech. It is obvious that the IS ECM-mech receives an unjustified advantage. Would you agree with this? But this is still a small thing. This is just Solaris 1 vs 1. But the ECM Clan was also hit with a nerf in the quick play, in which, let me remind you, there are no factions. There, in one team there are IS ECM-less mechs (!) under the cover (!) Clans ECM-mechs (!). I.e. amidst all the talk about the supposedly fair balance of factions in the half-dead game mode, you deprived the ECM Clan of cover for the IS ECM-less mechs in the main, most popular game mode. Just think about it: you supposedly care about injustice towards IS mechs in the game, but you yourself deprive the same IS mechs of cover Clan ECM in a quick play.
And, taking this into account, only two disappointing conclusions can be drawn:
1) Either this decision was made by not very smart people who think in very narrow terms and are not able to logically continue the consequences of their actions. And within the cauldron/PGI there was no person who could point out the obvious logical discrepancy between the identified problem and the measures taken to eliminate it and their consequences.
2) Either the officially proposed reason for the nerf to the Clan ECM is a ridiculous attempt to deceive the community. But the real reason for the decision was completely different.
People don't like it when something is taken from them. But people love new things. My suggestion. No more nerfs. Let's remember the first part of my analysis. Make new packs of ECM mechs. You can call them nicely, for example, “Ghost Defenders”.

Ghost Defenders IS first wave:
1) Light fast ballistic (6-8xMG + 4x energy) mech;
2) Medium fast/medium-fast missile mech (6xSRM);
3) Heavy energy (6-8x energy) 70-75 tons mid/long range mech with really good (high) hardpoints;
4) Assault 90-100 tons ballistic (6x ballistics) mech.

Ghost Defenders IS second wave:
1) Medium-fast light mech for 3 AMS.
2) Medium jumping medium-fast long-range mech (2-3x energy) with high hardpoints.
3) Heavy 70-75 tons ballistic (4-6xAC) mid/long range mech with really good (high) hardpoints.
4) Assault multi-missile 85-95 tons mech.
5) Assault energy (8x energy) mid/long range 90 tons mech with good hardpoints.

And, if you're really concerned about balance, you can give the Clans mechs they don't have.
Clans Ghost Invaders Trinity:
1) Fast light mech with 6 missiles (INC?);
2) Medium-fast medium mech for 5-6 MPL (HBK-IIC).
3) Assault (4x ballistics) 100 ton mech with high hardpoints (KDK-3?).

You can make these mechs paid at the first stage and then introduce them into the game for C-Bills (as was the case with previous packs, for example, Striker or Predator).
Search in Lore, find suitable mechs. If there are no such mechs in Lore, invent them yourself. After all, you have already made mechs that have nothing to do with Lore.

I would also like to suggest a small equipment expansion. Or rather, consumables.
In addition to the existing UAV, you can make one or two more UAVs:
1) UAV-jammer. A UAV that jams the enemy mechs it hovers over;
2) UAV-ECM. A UAV that covers the ECM of the allied mechs it hovers over;
3) UAV-hybrid is a universal hybrid of the first two UAVs. The ECM covers allied mechs and jammer with enemy mechs.

But to avoid devaluing existing UAV, new UAVs should not be able to targeting enemy mechs, and should they be permanently visible on radar, unlike existing UAV.
In principle, the UAVs I propose must be technically feasible. An existing UAV has its own very short range ECM, so an ECM-UAV shouldn't be a big problem - just need to increase its range.
UAV-jammer in general is also a solvable problem. After all, we are all familiar with the jammer towers from the incursion mode, and the usual ECM on the mechs also gives the necessary jamm effect for lock-on weapons.

Command wheel sound pack.
You could upgrade and diversify the radio traffic made through the command wheel.
To do this, you can take the corresponding cues from the game MW5 Mercs and add them to MWO. It’s also possible that you could add another item to the game settings: “Gender of voice in command wheel: male, female, random (default)”. So that the player can specify in the settings the gender of the voice that will be used to exchange commands in the game.
I'm giving you these ideas away for free, but if you want to thank me with some cool mech, I won't refuse .
I hope that my thoughts, ideas and suggestions will seem interesting and worthy of discussion, and will also find a place in the game.

Balance in FP is supposed to be a joke? That's just ridiculous

[martian]

KursedVixen, on 21 October 2023 - 02:19 PM, said:

Though i think some clan mechs need some small buffs timberwolf maybe? just a tad more ct armor??

Boosting one of the most powerful and versatile Clan heavy OmniMechs in the game? Seriously?

KursedVixen, on 21 October 2023 - 02:41 PM, said:

The other thing that i've really thought about is some way to restore the dire wolf's speed at least up to 50kph is there a way to apply a speed boost via quirks? though this may open up a can of worms so I dunno.

Boosting one of the most powerful and versatile Clan assault OmniMechs in the game? Seriously?

[Sebastyan Black]

So, why are the new Mechs legendary? Because of the Battle pass? I was under the impression that they will get some unique quirks and not be another Hero mech.

[Vamboozle]

Broadly looks like a good patch but really not convinced HAGs needed another buff.

[The6thMessenger]

Is the Dreadnaught in Sale as well afterwards?

Please be on sale.

[KursedVixen]

Gakuseinozen, on 21 October 2023 - 04:04 PM, said:

More HAG weapon spread reductions, are you insane? These weapons absolutely do not need less spread; they need more. They're basically MRMs with much higher velocity, less spread, double the range and less heat.

Rac 5

Edited by KursedVixen, 22 October 2023 - 02:24 AM.

[martian]

KursedVixen, on 22 October 2023 - 02:24 AM, said:

Rac 5

Go on.

[KursedVixen]

martian, on 22 October 2023 - 02:44 AM, said:

Go on.

Rac 5 can do 40+ damage in 4 seconds if your target stands around that long same with the hag. but i think the hag has a higher velocity...

Rac 5 weighs the same as a hag 20 but has the potential to do more damage in 3 seconds of firing than the hag 20 and you can keep firing, with the hag 20 you have to charge and once it's fired you have to wait 4 seconsd, not so with the Rac 5 which list no cooldown so you can just let off the trigger or wait till it unjamms if you jam it.

Rac5 is colder too 3.25 vs hag 20's 5

not to mention just about any mech of the same weight rac 5 will be behind more armor.

Edited by KursedVixen, 22 October 2023 - 03:39 AM.

[martian]

KursedVixen, on 22 October 2023 - 03:00 AM, said:

Rac 5 can do 40+ damage in 4 seconds if your target stands around that long same with the hag. but i think the hag has a higher velocity...

Any comparison of range or jammability?

[KursedVixen]

martian, on 22 October 2023 - 03:05 AM, said:

Any comparison of range or jammability?

pretty sure hag has more range ,but it's effective range is about -50-200m less of it's listed effective range. So i'd say they have similar effective range any futher than 450-500 and the spread on hag is not precise enough (at least for me) though rac 5 optimium range is 450. I've noticed a spread on the hag at even 450 meters....

Rac does not jam(at least in my testing) unless you let the bar fill and there's a skill tree node to make it fill slower I dunno So rac is continous fire untill you let off the trigger or it jams which will be awhile.

Rac spin up is much slower than Hag charge...at least in my expierience

hag on the other hand is one burst and done with heavier ones having a longer burst.

I've managed to get 112 damage out of a rac 5 in personal testing before it jammed granted it was on a stationary target in the acadamy , but the potential is there.

hag also explodes.

ammo for rac 5 is 175

Hag ammo for any of the 3 is 48

Edited by KursedVixen, 22 October 2023 - 04:34 AM.

[Buenaventura]

NiceDad, on 21 October 2023 - 07:46 PM, said:

Does buying Dreadnaught & Scattershot using MC qualify for the IS & Clan Legend Reward?

No. Disregarding the active player reward, the loyality rewards are for giving PGI real money.

[Ken Harkin]

Frost_Byte, on 21 October 2023 - 01:15 PM, said:

The lilypads were exploitable via user.cfg changes and players could see through them. They would offer no visual cover for some. We decided to remove them and remake the area to create a more balanced landscape between players who use user.cfg changes and players who don't.

How about simply fixing the exploit?

[Samziel]

Ken Harkin, on 22 October 2023 - 04:17 AM, said:

How about simply fixing the exploit?

Edited by Samziel, 22 October 2023 - 04:29 AM.

[KursedVixen]

Ken Harkin, on 22 October 2023 - 04:17 AM, said:

How about simply fixing the exploit?

They did...

[Ken Harkin]

KursedVixen, on 22 October 2023 - 04:45 AM, said:

They did...

No they didn't fix the exploit. They removed items from one map to compensate for their inability to keep players from benefiting from it.

[C337Skymaster]

Frost_Byte, on 21 October 2023 - 01:15 PM, said:

The lilypads were exploitable via user.cfg changes and players could see through them. They would offer no visual cover for some. We decided to remove them and remake the area to create a more balanced landscape between players who use user.cfg changes and players who don't.

Thank you for the explanation. That's mildly concerning, to be honest. Is there anything else in the game that can be glitched in that way? That particular exploit sounds borderline like cheating, to me... (non-user.cfg user, here).

[Bud Crue]

C337Skymaster, on 22 October 2023 - 06:20 AM, said:

Thank you for the explanation. That's mildly concerning, to be honest. Is there anything else in the game that can be glitched in that way? That particular exploit sounds borderline like cheating, to me... (non-user.cfg user, here).

On old Forest Colony you could basically turn the map into a moonscape as all of the water and vegetation would be majestically removed for you, which is why they removed those maps last month. There's probably others.

[Mechwarrior2342356]

I'm really not sure how to feel about having gotten weary of Legendaries and then... a Marauder legendary drops.

It's not about the stats, not about anything but the facts that 1: I absolutely love Marauders, and 2: oh my god the symmetrical layout looks so damn sweet on that chassis.

I got the Scattershot post nerf because I love Shadowhawks. I got Desperada because I adored the theme, paint, boltons and all.

I'm almost upset that Blight dropped. I don't care about the Assaults, I care little for Scaleshot and the Veagle and Howl, the Urbies are kinda nifty... but you went and made a Marauder.

(Now do a Cicada.)

Edited by the check engine light, 22 October 2023 - 08:00 AM.

[M3chgeeK]

So the M1 is a fun as srm/ssrm platform this ammo nerf sucks! to make a MRM build work you can only pack one MRM10 and keep your speed. Witch is your armor trade off for a locus.
BAD IDEA!
I think the map fix looks Awesome!