207 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

Curccu, on 06 November 2023 - 02:50 AM, said:

MRMs have stream, SPLs, MPLs have burn duration, not that much longer for HAG30 at least, that one I got most XP.
HAG velocity is high enough that aiming is easy with minimal lead, MRMs have only quarter of that velocity.
I wouldn't call MRMs kinda accurate in any context, unless you mean that some of the missiles are going to hit intended location. Usually splashing whole centermass of the target.

MRM stream is better than the HAG stream. MRMs max out at 0.4992s, while the HAGs at 0.98s.

Yeah, the MRMs still splash a lot of damage around close range, despite the high damage -- and that's why I find it more balanced.

[Curccu]

The6thMessenger, on 06 November 2023 - 03:38 AM, said:

MRM stream is better than the HAG stream. MRMs max out at 0.4992s, while the HAGs at 0.98s.

Like I said got most XP with MRM30 with 0,7 duration vs MRM40 0,5 not huge difference.
HAG40 is not that good for many builds and ghost heat for 2x is pretty nasty.

[KursedVixen]

foamyesque, on 05 November 2023 - 05:22 PM, said:

On what do you base this? As it stands HAGs are significantly better brawling weapons than MRMs are.

cooldown.

[Void Angel]

Curccu, on 06 November 2023 - 03:42 AM, said:

Like I said got most XP with MRM30 with 0,7 duration vs MRM40 0,5 not huge difference.
HAG40 is not that good for many builds and ghost heat for 2x is pretty nasty.

A 40% difference in fire duration is bigger than the small numbers might indicate, especially since average human reaction time is a static floor. Anything past 180-200ms for visual stimuli is the window in which most targets can begin to react by twisting, etc. - assuming the target isn't focused in on something else, distracted, or whatever. During the time that the target cannot react, an burst duration doesn't matter, so if we chop off that 0.2 seconds, you're looking at a difference of ~67%. If he's stationary, we have a contest between my marksmanship and his torso twist and turn speeds - maybe jump jets, too. If he's moving, we have all of that, plus my ability to track targets with what is often torso-mounted weaponry.

So if we assume I'm on target, I have .2 and .5 seconds where the burst durations actually matter (since the target is neurologically now able to react,) for MRMs and HAGs respectively. And that's a two-thirds difference in burst time, on a scale where people are reacting in fractions of a second to twist, swerve, or track a target. It's not inconsiderable.

Now, if I'm in a HAG 'mech at 400m and I'm able to retreat back into cover, I'll win over MRMs. Overpowered or not, it's a glorified Gauss Rifle, and that's what a Gauss Rifle does. But if my opponent is able to force an engagement, his 55% advantage in DPS is going to start telling really fast, spread damage or not. The problem is that the HAG will still come fairly close - and still remains a superior substitute for the Gauss Rifle for the vast majority of former Gaussvomit builds.

[Vonbach]

Comparing HAGs and MRMs is ********. Hags have less heat, less spread more range.
I took a clan mech I sometimes use and replaced AC20s with HAGs and doubled my
typical damage on the spot. MRMs are trash aside for a few builds and they sandblast
missiles all over the place. All this for insane heat.
HAGs are flat out superior in every way.

[Void Angel]

Except for tonnage, and space, and dps, and burst duration, and (sometimes) damage per heat.

HAGs are the better weapon, but let's do remember the math.

[The6thMessenger]

Vonbach, on 07 November 2023 - 02:06 PM, said:

Comparing HAGs and MRMs is ********. Hags have less heat, less spread more range.
I took a clan mech I sometimes use and replaced AC20s with HAGs and doubled my
typical damage on the spot. MRMs are trash aside for a few builds and they sandblast
missiles all over the place. All this for insane heat.
HAGs are flat out superior in every way.

I agree, but that is the point.

MRMs have comparatively massive drawbacks that balances their immense damage, while HAGs pretty much don't. They are indeed superior (in most ways, I still prefer MRMs in brawl), and the thesis is exactly that HAGs are OP.

Heat? ***** please. It's still 60 to 80 damage from 810m, that is BTW very accurate at their optimal distance, while the MRMs have so much spread, they had to fire closer; and Clan Heat dissipation is pretty strong so ultimately, unless with Clan Vomit -- what heat?

[foamyesque]

Void Angel, on 07 November 2023 - 04:18 PM, said:

Except for tonnage, and space, and dps, and burst duration, and (sometimes) damage per heat.

HAGs are the better weapon, but let's do remember the math.

That's fair, I oversold my case.

I will say this, though: I've never been in any fight where I had HAGs and thought 'man I wish I had MRMs instead'. SRMs, yes. Regular gauss, sometimes. MRMs? Hells no.

Edited by foamyesque, 08 November 2023 - 10:59 PM.

[Weeny Machine]

Frost_Byte, on 25 October 2023 - 04:52 PM, said:

Brawling is quite strong in MWO at the moment. P

Try a light mech which is no weeny 20t mechs. Come back and tell us how you fared

[foamyesque]

Weeny Machine, on 09 November 2023 - 11:42 AM, said:

Try a light mech which is no weeny 20t mechs. Come back and tell us how you fared

Commando? Mist Lynx? Kit Fox? Incubus? Urbies? Hell, even the Vulcan as an overgrown light? Some pretty fun and strong brawlers out there.

[Void Angel]

Frost_Byte, on 25 October 2023 - 03:36 PM, said:

I posted this in the wrong thread. Meant to post here.

Cauldron doesn't make maps. That's done 100% by PGI by very little Cauldron input.

We can scratch that one off the conspiracy board.

No, you can't. That's what makes it the conspiracy board!

[Dr Cara Carcass]

the check engine light, on 24 October 2023 - 07:52 PM, said:

FP is dead and they have one major comp season a year and they still try and ram comp/FP viability down people's throats as the gospel.

You may join a team and play comp.

The game outside of comp has gotten so bad, due to the playerbase beeing thinned out so much, that comp is the only really fun part of it.

I dont have fun no matter what the balance of the game is , when you cannot make the players do smart moves.
I cant count far enough to quntify how often i see the same ppl go in to the basement on HPG for example, then lose the game horribly 9/10 times and still calim its teh best strat because they forget about their 9 losses and cling to the 1 win.

And if you do good, and tell them why you constantly do good, you get the accusation of beeing an elitist.
Well thx, yeah I am in favor of doing things right instead of doing them wrong 9/10 times.

[Void Angel]

Dr Cara Carcass, on 10 November 2023 - 03:53 AM, said:

You may join a team and play comp. The game outside of comp has gotten so bad, due to the playerbase beeing thinned out so much, that comp is the only really fun part of it. I dont have fun no matter what the balance of the game is , when you cannot make the players do smart moves. I cant count far enough to quntify how often i see the same ppl go in to the basement on HPG for example, then lose the game horribly 9/10 times and still calim its teh best strat because they forget about their 9 losses and cling to the 1 win. And if you do good, and tell them why you constantly do good, you get the accusation of beeing an elitist. Well thx, yeah I am in favor of doing things right instead of doing them wrong 9/10 times.

Yeah, it can be hard on the blood pressure. I still find QP worth my while, but I also quit for a few years - so maybe I'm just a masochist.

[Weeny Machine]

Vonbach, on 07 November 2023 - 02:06 PM, said:

Comparing HAGs and MRMs is ********. Hags have less heat, less spread more range.
I took a clan mech I sometimes use and replaced AC20s with HAGs and doubled my
typical damage on the spot. MRMs are trash aside for a few builds and they sandblast
missiles all over the place. All this for insane heat.
HAGs are flat out superior in every way.

Pretty much. Comparing MRMs and HAGs is like compare a Fiat Uno with a Porsche. But actually the HAGs should have the same spread as MRMs or LBX if you look at the tabletop game

[Moadebe]

Weeny Machine, on 11 November 2023 - 01:01 AM, said:

Pretty much. Comparing MRMs and HAGs is like compare a Fiat Uno with a Porsche. But actually the HAGs should have the same spread as MRMs or LBX if you look at the tabletop game

But that caused too much randomness

(yes....lurkin around streams and a cauldron member said that the reason for the spread removal is because it felt too random...)

Dr Cara Carcass, on 10 November 2023 - 03:53 AM, said:

I dont have fun no matter what the balance of the game is

Then MAYBE its time for a break?

I mean....

[Weeny Machine]

Moadebe, on 11 November 2023 - 05:12 AM, said:

But that caused too much randomness

(yes....lurkin around streams and a cauldron member said that the reason for the spread removal is because it felt too random...)

I mean, randomness is the point of making the weapon less deadly/overpowered. As I said above: it has zero drawbacks and is also deadly in close range fights. A sniper's wet dream...Cauldron balance at its finest

[KursedVixen]

Vonbach, on 07 November 2023 - 02:06 PM, said:

Comparing HAGs and MRMs is ********. Hags have less heat, less spread more range.
I took a clan mech I sometimes use and replaced AC20s with HAGs and doubled my
typical damage on the spot. MRMs are trash aside for a few builds and they sandblast
missiles all over the place. All this for insane heat.
HAGs are flat out superior in every way.

Hags are more akin to LBX or Rotaries.

I'll say this again they need to be close range to mid range weapons not snipers especially beyond 500-600meters.

Edited by KursedVixen, 11 November 2023 - 09:00 AM.

[martian]

Weeny Machine, on 11 November 2023 - 08:12 AM, said:

I mean, randomness is the point of making the weapon less deadly/overpowered. As I said above: it has zero drawbacks and is also deadly in close range fights. A sniper's wet dream...Cauldron balance at its finest

I laughed when I read the Cauldron / PGI announcement that they "nerfed" HAGs ... by tightening their spread.

Edited by martian, 11 November 2023 - 10:51 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

martian, on 11 November 2023 - 10:45 AM, said:

I laughed when I read the Cauldron / PGI announcement that they "nerfed" HAGs ... by tightening their spread.

I just had a match were a Marauder IIC sat the whole match in E5 on the Canyon map. Awesome skills are required here. Camp a sniper spot and you can shoot across the whole map thanks to this idiotic velocity and no spread.

I also shows that there is no risk vs reward equation anymore in this game. The long range weapons should have either a longer cycle time, charge time or be less effective in close range. This has become a real shitshow

Edited by Weeny Machine, 11 November 2023 - 12:28 PM.

[foamyesque]

Moadebe, on 11 November 2023 - 05:12 AM, said:

But that caused too much randomness

(yes....lurkin around streams and a cauldron member said that the reason for the spread removal is because it felt too random...)

The randomness is the point.

Some people, I swear. Yes it means you don't get full reward for being a perfect pixel clicker, that was the intent and it's good for balance.