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Bring Back 8V8 Quickplay

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#81 pbiggz

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Posted 30 November 2023 - 06:03 AM

View PostInnerSphereNews, on 18 July 2022 - 03:57 PM, said:


As of the July 19th patch, The Max Group Restrictions Variable will be exposed for future tuning. The default setting will be set back to Max 5 people in groups as of the July 19th patch. Max Group Restrictions 5 means each team can have can have:

  • one 4-player group, or
  • one 2-player and one 3-player group, or
  • two 2-player groups




Do you think these group limits are game warping? Do you have any conclusive proof that sync dropping is "widespread"? Do you have any proof that large numbers of players are leaving the game because of said sync dropping? Do you have proof that you've lost games because of sync dropping?

You made the claims. You have to verify them.

I have https://steamcharts.com/app/342200#All which verifies the opposite of your claims. So good luck.

Edited by pbiggz, 30 November 2023 - 06:05 AM.


#82 Vincefeld

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Posted 30 November 2023 - 06:22 AM

mech armor values really not balanced around being focus fired by 3-4 guys at same time.
i want to play game, bring some impact and not just lose side torso instantly from single peak or get swarmed by light premades

#83 pbiggz

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Posted 30 November 2023 - 07:11 AM

View PostVincefeld, on 30 November 2023 - 06:22 AM, said:

mech armor values really not balanced around being focus fired by 3-4 guys at same time.
i want to play game, bring some impact and not just lose side torso instantly from single peak or get swarmed by light premades


Ammo was also never rebalanced for 12v12. Its why you often feel like you dont have enough ammo. 8v8 with at most a 3 man limit, or two independent 2 mans per team, would be sensible.

#84 KingCobra

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Posted 30 November 2023 - 07:40 AM

View PostVincefeld, on 30 November 2023 - 06:22 AM, said:

mech armor values really not balanced around being focus fired by 3-4 guys at same time.
i want to play game, bring some impact and not just lose side torso instantly from single peak or get swarmed by light premades

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Well Vince not to get off topic to far ARMOR Values have always been bad let's put it this way if you were a Mech designer who would put just 5-20 back armor in a Mech? exactly no one would as a designer. ALL MechWarrior games 2-4 were designed with TOS a technical operating system manual of all mech specs as in gun placement,armor.electronics, ETC.

MWO was designed with this system as well to a point but yes Armor needed adjustment from day 1 of MWO and for 10 plus years has been ignored that is why the (TTK=Time to Kill) is so low and armor is striped so fast they said they doubled the armor values long ago but i dont belive it ever happened.

P.S Pbiggz he was talking ARMOR not AMMO lol get your glasses on bud.

Edited by KingCobra, 30 November 2023 - 07:41 AM.


#85 80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie

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Posted 30 November 2023 - 07:48 AM

I wouldn't mind 8v8 returning. But something needs to be done about how the MM builds lobbies.

Most maps are NOT at all designed with 12v12, while others are not designed for close range, long range, 8v8 etc.

Ideally, the map would be picked first automatically, then the lobby would pull in players, where the map lobby determines the match size. Players would then pick from one of their mechs in the active drop deck.

This would allow any range of map to be "good" as players are not locked into a mech before knowing what map, or match size they are launching into.

#86 pbiggz

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Posted 30 November 2023 - 08:13 AM

View PostKingCobra, on 30 November 2023 - 07:40 AM, said:

P.S Pbiggz he was talking ARMOR not AMMO lol get your glasses on bud.


I was adding to his thought, which was correct.

note.

View Postpbiggz, on 30 November 2023 - 07:11 AM, said:


Ammo was also never rebalanced for 12v12.


Get your glasses checked.

Neither armor, nor ammo were balanced for 12v12s. Recieving up to a third more incoming fire and having a third more enemy armor to chew through tossed both out of balance.

But you can keep being smarmy if you like.

Edited by pbiggz, 30 November 2023 - 08:13 AM.


#87 KingCobra

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Posted 30 November 2023 - 08:14 AM

View Post80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie, on 30 November 2023 - 07:48 AM, said:

I wouldn't mind 8v8 returning. But something needs to be done about how the MM builds lobbies.

Most maps are NOT at all designed with 12v12, while others are not designed for close range, long range, 8v8 etc.

Ideally, the map would be picked first automatically, then the lobby would pull in players, where the map lobby determines the match size. Players would then pick from one of their mechs in the active drop deck.

This would allow any range of map to be "good" as players are not locked into a mech before knowing what map, or match size they are launching into.

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What your describing David Glamor LOL was the way MechWarrior 2-4 and all there expansions were played but when the MWO designers came along they were afraid to do this I assume for 2 reasons #1 the game engine would not support it because the older games ran on your PC not on a central server and #2 it was easy for players to make Trainor hacks and variant hacks
A trainer was a dev tool to alter mechs components gun placements and how many how powerful and everything else on a mech ETC. A mech variant was made of a loadout you saved for your mechs in the old games and stored in the game folders themselves hackers could go into these files and alter there mechs to be godlike with weapons output no heat and defensive ability's no one could kill them.

When some Modders for MechWarrior4 came along called MekTek they tried to fix these hacks and were unsuccessful so the older games became unplayable unless you were a hacker.

I do believe a new 8v8 que in the MM configuration iI described would work well and it would also work for faction play as well.

#88 pbiggz

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Posted 30 November 2023 - 08:16 AM

You do know both him and I were around during the mektek days right? I do not recall ubiquitous hacking on the mektek servers. I do remember getting clobbered a ton, because sniping was REALLY good, and I was not.

Edited by pbiggz, 30 November 2023 - 08:21 AM.


#89 KingCobra

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Posted 30 November 2023 - 09:17 AM

View Postpbiggz, on 30 November 2023 - 08:16 AM, said:

You do know both him and I were around during the mektek days right? I do not recall ubiquitous hacking on the mektek servers. I do remember getting clobbered a ton, because sniping was REALLY good, and I was not.

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Now you're making me think back a few days and yes, I knew Russ and Brian when they played on the MekTek servers and VAM and whitefeather and the first founders of MekTek that split off to make another MOD called MechWarrior Living Legends we were all working on the Anti Hacks which MekTek claimed to work but only stopped the hacked Jump jets on any mech LOL.

#90 Aidan Crenshaw

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Posted 30 November 2023 - 10:34 AM

View PostKingCobra, on 30 November 2023 - 07:40 AM, said:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well Vince not to get off topic to far ARMOR Values have always been bad let's put it this way if you were a Mech designer who would put just 5-20 back armor in a Mech? exactly no one would as a designer. ALL MechWarrior games 2-4 were designed with TOS a technical operating system manual of all mech specs as in gun placement,armor.electronics, ETC.

MWO was designed with this system as well to a point but yes Armor needed adjustment from day 1 of MWO and for 10 plus years has been ignored that is why the (TTK=Time to Kill) is so low and armor is striped so fast they said they doubled the armor values long ago but i dont belive it ever happened.

P.S Pbiggz he was talking ARMOR not AMMO lol get your glasses on bud.

What are you talking about? The basis for all things in the mechlab, armour values, speeds, weapons loadout and placement are taken from the Battletech tabletop game. And the armor/structure values in fact got doubled from TT values to cope for the higher rate of fire in this FPS shooter.

#91 feeWAIVER

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Posted 30 November 2023 - 11:22 AM

When they do Event Queue assaults only with double armor, the game feels soooo good, because you can take hits and your armor doesn't event turn yellow.. and you can watch it slowly lose integrity as you take more hits.
It actually feels like your wrapped in steel.

#92 KingCobra

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Posted 30 November 2023 - 12:34 PM

View PostAidan Crenshaw, on 30 November 2023 - 10:34 AM, said:

What are you talking about? The basis for all things in the mechlab, armour values, speeds, weapons loadout and placement are taken from the Battletech tabletop game. And the armor/structure values in fact got doubled from TT values to cope for the higher rate of fire in this FPS shooter.

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Sigh I should have explained it better sometimes I forget many MWO players do not know the whole story of BattleTech to MWO Adian is right TOS was the technical manuals of BattleTech carried over to MechWarrior1 to MWO. After a few weeks of MWO gameplay when it was in Beta many of us realized how easy it was to kill mechs by shooting them in the back armor many beta testers proclaimed this to PGI they made a modification to Armor values but was it done? Many say yes many say no it was not doubled in truth just the numbers were changed to reflect it had been done.

Personally, I opted to report that a actual x4-x6 armor + change was needed to all armor to keep up with all the power creep from weapons changes. Even back then but alas nothing has been done to slow down the power creep weapons progression until for most real new players that do come along, they are almost one shot killed.

So from my point of view these lessons the TTK to a point most new players leave the game before they give it a fair chance and as you all know without new players to play and fund the game it declines.

#93 pbiggz

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Posted 30 November 2023 - 12:39 PM

ok first, thinking there isn't enough armor in the game is a big ol' opinion. It might even be the right opinion, but it is just that.

Second, you again claim a decline that isn't happening, and link it directly to a cause you can't verify. You have to stop doing that.

#94 KingCobra

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Posted 30 November 2023 - 04:10 PM

View Postpbiggz, on 30 November 2023 - 12:39 PM, said:

ok first, thinking there isn't enough armor in the game is a big ol' opinion. It might even be the right opinion, but it is just that.

Second, you again claim a decline that isn't happening, and link it directly to a cause you can't verify. You have to stop doing that.

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Here is your proof of decline. Just hit the all button for full stats.

MechWarrior Online Steam Charts - Live Player Count (steamplayercount.com)

And I assume if there is still a direct access to the server other than steam its chart would be similar or worse news.
And if you think armor needs to be added to mechs for better gameplay and longer TTK ask in game in a real pole.

Edited by KingCobra, 30 November 2023 - 04:10 PM.


#95 Besh

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Posted 30 November 2023 - 05:39 PM

View PostKingCobra, on 30 November 2023 - 04:10 PM, said:

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Here is your proof of decline. Just hit the all button for full stats.

MechWarrior Online Steam Charts - Live Player Count (steamplayercount.com)

And I assume if there is still a direct access to the server other than steam its chart would be similar or worse news.
And if you think armor needs to be added to mechs for better gameplay and longer TTK ask in game in a real pole.


I am pretty sure PGI client isn't Lostech .

Are Jarl's global Stats anyhow indicative of whats going on with Playernumbers ?

Edited by Besh, 30 November 2023 - 05:39 PM.


#96 pbiggz

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Posted 30 November 2023 - 07:52 PM

View PostKingCobra, on 30 November 2023 - 04:10 PM, said:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is your proof of decline. Just hit the all button for full stats. MechWarrior Online Steam Charts - Live Player Count (steamplayercount.com) And I assume if there is still a direct access to the server other than steam its chart would be similar or worse news. And if you think armor needs to be added to mechs for better gameplay and longer TTK ask in game in a real pole.


Ah yes, so you cited a steam chart that ends in 2022.

Here. Have the one that continues on. https://steamcharts.com/app/342200#All

For the record, as of posting this, the average nightly numbers for MWO in november are 948, so, essentially 1000 players a night, just like it has been for the last 3 years.

Notice how from 2021 through to now, its essentially flat? A few wiggles here and there don't make for a trend. You either don't understand the data you are reading, or you're interpreting it obtusely on purpose to spin a narrative.

Edited by pbiggz, 30 November 2023 - 07:53 PM.


#97 Besh

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Posted 30 November 2023 - 08:52 PM

View Postpbiggz, on 30 November 2023 - 07:52 PM, said:


Ah yes, so you cited a steam chart that ends in 2022.

Here. Have the one that continues on. https://steamcharts.com/app/342200#All

For the record, as of posting this, the average nightly numbers for MWO in november are 948, so, essentially 1000 players a night, just like it has been for the last 3 years.

Notice how from 2021 through to now, its essentially flat? A few wiggles here and there don't make for a trend. You either don't understand the data you are reading, or you're interpreting it obtusely on purpose to spin a narrative.


You seriously think people only play MW:O through Steam ?

#98 pbiggz

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Posted 01 December 2023 - 08:41 AM

View PostBesh, on 30 November 2023 - 08:52 PM, said:


You seriously think people only play MW:O through Steam ?


No. The steam numbers are an undercount. You understand that makes you more wrong right?

#99 Besh

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Posted 01 December 2023 - 08:55 AM

View Postpbiggz, on 01 December 2023 - 08:41 AM, said:

No. The steam numbers are an undercount. You understand that makes you more wrong right?


Why do you use SteamCharts as an Indicator for player#trend then ?

Makes me wrong about what ?

Edited by Besh, 01 December 2023 - 09:25 AM.


#100 pbiggz

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Posted 01 December 2023 - 09:59 AM

View PostBesh, on 01 December 2023 - 08:55 AM, said:


Why do you use SteamCharts as an Indicator for player#trend then ?

Makes me wrong about what ?


There’s no reason to assume the steam charts behave any differently from the rest of the player base. If there was a decline there it would probably indicate an overall decline. Stability there probably indicates stability overall, and the level of stability the steam charts show is pretty conspicuous.

It makes you wrong about your continued attempts to paint a picture of a decline that isn’t there.





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