66 replies to this topic

[Heavy Money]

ScrapIron Prime, on 25 November 2023 - 09:47 AM, said:

To be honest, though, the most effective LRM mechs right now are not the ones with massive hardpoints, they’re the ones with 25% velocity quirks or more. The best IS LRM mech right now is the Warhammer 7S because LRMs are the only weapon in MWO to fire at subsonic speeds.

Correct! I didn't mention it because its a heavy and I only compared to assaults. On IS side, the WHM-7S is best if you don't have a spotter. The JM6-A is best for ammo efficiency due to its quirks (great for Faction or if you want to run a much bigger engine.) On clan side, its EBJ for dps and aggressive play, and NCT-B and BAS for lots of raining.

That said, I have been playing the LRM Longbow more and it really does stand out in its ability to run IS LRM90. Nothing else does that effectively. And it is absolutely punishing if you get to shoot ppl with it.

foamyesque, on 25 November 2023 - 11:22 PM, said:

It isn't that it's bad for LRMs, it's that LRMs, as a whole, are in an awful place. You may as well run MRMs, or just not use missiles entirely.

Even the proposed changes for December are mostly buffing specifically LRM5s, which... I mean okay but it'd be nice if mechs that didn't have inflated numbers of hardpoints could actually do something, too.

Yeah, but people weren't really making that distinction elsewhere in this thread.

I do feel like we've ended up in a spot where the weapon system in general isn't very good, but then certain mechs are given enough quirks to make it viable. This does allow some variety, but isn't a great approach overall. (Same thing with standard PPCs only being viable on a few heavily quirked mechs.)

[Novakaine]

Seriously only PGI could take one of the most iconic LRM boats.
And turn it into a bad hit box fill in the blank.
They're more fun with ballistics, but not by much.
I'm totally dumbfounded.
But not surprised.

[Vonbach]

the check engine light, on 26 November 2023 - 07:27 AM, said:

>buffing LRM5 only

Uhhhhhhhhh?

Whatever really, I don't touch LRMs typically.

Of course they'd buff LRM5s they can be nullified by a single AMS so no one uses them.

[foamyesque]

Vonbach, on 27 November 2023 - 06:30 PM, said:

Of course they'd buff LRM5s they can be nullified by a single AMS so no one uses them.

LRM5s see substantial use in high-missile hardpoint mechs that want to waste those hardpoints on a bad weapon system. They're the most efficient launcher on the Sphere side on the raw numbers -- best cycle time, lowest weight per tube, least spread -- and arguably the best on the Clan side because, while they're not crit-efficient compared to the bigger Clan launchers, they still have all the other advantages and the shortest volley duration atop.

Also, if I recollect correctly, the smaller launchers are better at punching through AMS on a per tube basis since their missiles have more health. Even if I'm mistaken there, though, the only reason to not mass LRM5s has been a. hardpoint limits and b. ghost heat limits.

And there's a proposal afoot to make that second restriction much more generous.

[Heavy Money]

foamyesque, on 27 November 2023 - 07:39 PM, said:

LRM5s see substantial use in high-missile hardpoint mechs that want to waste those hardpoints on a bad weapon system. They're the most efficient launcher on the Sphere side on the raw numbers -- best cycle time, lowest weight per tube, least spread -- and arguably the best on the Clan side because, while they're not crit-efficient compared to the bigger Clan launchers, they still have all the other advantages and the shortest volley duration atop.

Also, if I recollect correctly, the smaller launchers are better at punching through AMS on a per tube basis since their missiles have more health. Even if I'm mistaken there, though, the only reason to not mass LRM5s has been a. hardpoint limits and b. ghost heat limits.

And there's a proposal afoot to make that second restriction much more generous.

You are correct that smaller launchers have more missile health. For other types too.

[martian]

the check engine light, on 27 November 2023 - 07:04 PM, said:

People use AMS?

I do ... on some 'Mechs.

[Mechsniper]

To me ECM is not the main problem. It is by definition meant to make lrms hard to use against. HOWEVER, Tag, counter ecm, BAP, CAP, Uav's and narc suck donkey eggs. Also, missile speed is insanely slow in the game. Start by doubling it. NO mech, should be able to simply outrun lrms when locked and lights presently do. Heavies can simply step behind cover after missles are luanched at them. That is way too slow for a missle to be effective outside of a couple hundred meters. Counter ECM needs teeth and range. Stealth should melt in the face of tag, not take several seconds to lock a light. Narc is not completely bad. Make the narc missile speed at least double. Spread could be tweaked as well.

Edited by Mechsniper, 29 November 2023 - 04:59 PM.

[foamyesque]

Mechsniper, on 29 November 2023 - 04:59 PM, said:

To me ECM is not the main problem. It is by definition meant to make lrms hard to use against. HOWEVER, Tag, counter ecm, BAP, CAP, Uav's and narc suck donkey eggs. Also, missile speed is insanely slow in the game. Start by doubling it. NO mech, should be able to simply outrun lrms when locked and lights presently do. Heavies can simply step behind cover after missles are luanched at them. That is way too slow for a missle to be effective outside of a couple hundred meters. Counter ECM needs teeth and range. Stealth should melt in the face of tag, not take several seconds to lock a light. Narc is not completely bad. Make the narc missile speed at least double. Spread could be tweaked as well.

NARCs actually need a nerf because that would in turn open up space for the actual guns to be made better.

[Vincefeld]

dead on arrival mech

[Meep Meep]

Vonbach, on 27 November 2023 - 06:30 PM, said:

Of course they'd buff LRM5s they can be nullified by a single AMS so no one uses them.

Thats actually not true after the various changes to lrm launchers. The smaller the launcher the higher the health of the missiles to better aid in breaking past ams. I can punch through a corsairs ams defense with the lrm locust with ease barely loosing a missile.

[Jugger Grimrod]

HauptmanT, on 21 November 2023 - 07:07 PM, said:

I'm kind of hoping the Stinger/Wasp come out as a double LGD pack like the Urbie IIcs now.

As badly as I want them, we dont need a full line up of slow inner sphere lights. Just the two would suffice.

[...checks some files...]

WSP has 18 variants plus a WSP-C Clan upgrade. 95.1 km/h standard.
STG has 14 variants and two (2) Clan upgrades - STG-C and STG-C2. 91.6 km/h standard.

Agreed.... we have no need for 35 new Lights.

I'm hoping for more of a STD/Champion/Hero "Triple-Pack" of each one. Like the good old IS Mech Packs. 6 in all.

[Heavy Money]

The Wasp and Stinger don't really add anything to the game that other lights don't already do. It'd be largely pointless to add them.

[crazytimes]

Heavy Money, on 02 December 2023 - 07:21 PM, said:

The Wasp and Stinger don't really add anything to the game that other lights don't already do. It'd be largely pointless to add them.

But the owens... oh the fun we would have. 5t more than the Osiris... and sure, by lore that 5t is all fixed equipment, but when did we let lore get in the way of a bit of fun?

Follow it up with the Blackhawk-KU as the next legendary and fun will be had indeed.

[Runecarver]

Heavy Money, on 02 December 2023 - 07:21 PM, said:

The Wasp and Stinger don't really add anything to the game that other lights don't already do. It'd be largely pointless to add them.

By this logic there is no reason to add any mech at all. Since all of them are essentially the same now, just shuffled around.

But looking past that, what the wasp and stinger would offer are a 20 ton jumping light mech. MWO don't have one yet. It would be a very similar experience as the Mist Lynx, just on the inner sphere side.

The stinger fields primarily lasers and machineguns, while the wasp fields lasers and missiles. That even provides distinction between the two. Be more conservative with hardpoint inflation and these two would have been much healthier for the game than any of the legend mechs.

Edited by Runecarver, 02 December 2023 - 10:36 PM.

[Heavy Money]

Runecarver, on 02 December 2023 - 10:35 PM, said:

By this logic there is no reason to add any mech at all. Since all of them are essentially the same now, just shuffled around.

Yeah, they aren't.
I didn't read the rest.

[martian]

Runecarver, on 02 December 2023 - 10:35 PM, said:

But looking past that, what the wasp and stinger would offer are a 20 ton jumping light mech. MWO don't have one yet. It would be a very similar experience as the Mist Lynx, just on the inner sphere side.

Those IS 'Mechs would lack the advantage of the much lighter and smaller Clan technology.

[HauptmanT]

Heavy Money, on 02 December 2023 - 07:21 PM, said:

The Wasp and Stinger don't really add anything to the game that other lights don't already do. It'd be largely pointless to add them.

Uhhh. Can tell you arent much of a light pilot.

Tiny mech with jump jets on the inner sphere side does not currently exist. Commando dont jump, Spider is 50% bigger. Clans have the Mist Lynx at 25 tons, even it is kinda big.

Wasp and Stinger could bring back the Arctic Cheater meta from so many years ago.



And lord knows you guys need a shake up.

[martian]

HauptmanT, on 02 December 2023 - 11:40 PM, said:

Uhhh. Can tell you arent much of a light pilot.

Tiny mech with jump jets on the inner sphere side does not currently exist. Commando dont jump, Spider is 50% bigger. Clans have the Mist Lynx at 25 tons, even it is kinda big.

Wasp and Stinger could bring back the Arctic Cheater meta from so many years ago.

Not quite. Neither the Wasp nor the Stinger could use neither Clan Endo-steel nor Clan Ferro-fibrous armor nor Clan Double heat sinks nor many light and compact Clan weapons.

Not to talk that the Wasp and the Stinger being 20-tonners, you would have less tonnage to play with (the Arctic Cheetah is 30-tonner).

[Runecarver]

martian, on 03 December 2023 - 12:21 AM, said:

Not quite. Neither the Wasp nor the Stinger could use neither Clan Endo-steel nor Clan Ferro-fibrous armor nor Clan Double heat sinks nor many light and compact Clan weapons.

Not to talk that the Wasp and the Stinger being 20-tonners, you would have less tonnage to play with (the Arctic Cheetah is 30-tonner).

You would still have similar tonnages as the flea to work with. Simply replace the tons used on the MASC for jump jets.

And with neat hardpoint combinations and quirks you could make for fun and interesting lights, even with their heavier equipment.

A jumping 6-8 small laser, or 5 small Xpulse and 2-4 machinegun 20 tonner would be fun simply for the nimble and vertical gameplay.

Edited by Runecarver, 03 December 2023 - 12:30 AM.

[martian]

Runecarver, on 03 December 2023 - 12:29 AM, said:

You would still have similar tonnages as the flea to work with. Simply replace the tons used on the MASC for jump jets.

And with neat hardpoint combinations and quirks you could make for fun and interesting lights, even with their heavier equipment.

A jumping 6-8 small laser, or 5 small Xpulse and 2-4 machinegun 20 tonner would be fun simply for the nimble and vertical gameplay.

MASC on the Flea weighs 1 ton. That would give you 2 jump jets. The Arctic Cheetah equips 6 jump jets and it can carry more armor than the Flea.