12 replies to this topic

[JumpingHunter]

I got very tired of constant min-maxing of ultra-optimized builds, and so i decided to try to make a totally outdated "periphery-grade" battlemech lance. But then i ran into some issues with what i can actually make use of. I presume XL and Light Engines are off-limits (unless its Taurian Concordat lance, maybe), most of ER weapons aren't really avaliable for periphery states, some specific toys like Heavy and Light PPCs, X-Pulses and Gauss Rifles are probably off-limits too. Definitely restricting myself to Standard Heatsinks, and i guess no Info-Warfare electronics, unless it's something that had a deal with Capellans.

But here lies the question: what about Ferro-Fibrous or Endo-Steel armor? I definitely want to have more free tonnage for actually decent weaponry (even if it's outdated), but do periphery states like Magistracy of Canopus or Taurian Concordat have access to that? I know that Endo Steel is definitely hard to build with Zero-G facilities required, but what about Ferro-Fibrous, does it appear in periphery at least sometimes?

And another question that buggs me is whether or not periphery states had wide access to MRM missles? I am a big fan of MRMs, i tend to put them in every missle-capable mech i have, but they are rather new, and also were developed by Draconis Combine, which is known for making a high-tech weapons. But they also seem to mostly be a successor of "Dead-Fire" LRM ammo, which bid away targeting system in favor of more damage per missle or more ammo per ton, AND "Dead-Fire" was more of a cheap periphery trade-off, and not a specific properly-made alternative. So are MRMs considered to be in same category as Heavy and Light PPCs, or are them more avaliable on periphery? I would kill for MRMs on my Vindicator instead of SRM6, but idk if that would be appropriate...

I know for a fact that if used right these low-tech mechs can work and rack up some serious damage, and even when they are objectively letting me down in face of high-tech meta or close to meta mechs in QP it still is fun and not infuriating to run them, because it's not just my fault as bad pilot but also a lore-based handicapping gimmick i decided to get into myself. But i also want it to be as close to MWO's timeline periphery tech level as possible, and i have a feeling that builds that i currently use, with Std engines and SHS and low-tech weapons BUT still with Endo and Ferro internals aren't really representing common periphery battlemechs.

So i ask you, fellow mechwarriors, is it canon and logically-approved to have a "periphery" unit running mechs on Endo Steel and with Ferro-Firbrous armoring, and also equipped with MRMs?

Edited by JumpingHunter, 24 November 2023 - 04:37 AM.

[martian]

JumpingHunter, on 24 November 2023 - 04:28 AM, said:

What Are The Canon Periphery-Grade Tech Restrictions For Mwo Timeline?

It depends. Not all Periphery states are on the same level. For example, Magistracy of Canopus is a close Capellan ally, thus having a good access to some advanced Inner Sphere technology. On the other hand, Rim Collection is a quite primitive state.

[JumpingHunter]

martian, on 24 November 2023 - 05:00 AM, said:

It depends. Not all Periphery states are on the same level. For example, Magistracy of Canopus is a close Capellan ally, thus having a good access to some advanced Inner Sphere technology. On the other hand, Rim Collection is a quite primitive state.

Well, i know that Trinity Alliance was essentially designed with bringing TC and MoC at higher tech level in exchange for political support in mind, so that's basically the answer i wanted. Im still curious about MRMs and Ferro-Fibrous, though, can at least one of them be considered as low enough tech for periphery state to reliably supply these products to itself without having to rely on the IS partnership?

[martian]

JumpingHunter, on 24 November 2023 - 07:09 AM, said:

Well, i know that Trinity Alliance was essentially designed with bringing TC and MoC at higher tech level in exchange for political support in mind, so that's basically the answer i wanted. Im still curious about MRMs and Ferro-Fibrous, though, can at least one of them be considered as low enough tech for periphery state to reliably supply these products to itself without having to rely on the IS partnership?

All right, so let us assume that we are in mid-3070s because HAGs and Blazers are commonly used in the game.

JumpingHunter, on 24 November 2023 - 04:28 AM, said:

I got very tired of constant min-maxing of ultra-optimized builds, and so i decided to try to make a totally outdated "periphery-grade" battlemech lance. But then i ran into some issues with what i can actually make use of. I presume XL and Light Engines are off-limits (unless its Taurian Concordat lance, maybe),

XLE - available on SHD-7M Shadow Hawk.
LFE - available on Marshall

JumpingHunter, on 24 November 2023 - 04:28 AM, said:

most of ER weapons aren't really avaliable for periphery states,

ER lasers - available on KSC-5MC Koschei.

JumpingHunter, on 24 November 2023 - 04:28 AM, said:

some specific toys like Heavy and Light PPCs,

Heavy PPC - available on the Periphery variant of Goliath
Light PPC - available on Marshall
Snub-Nose PPC - available on KSC-5MC Koschei.

JumpingHunter, on 24 November 2023 - 04:28 AM, said:

X-Pulses and Gauss Rifles are probably off-limits too.

Not exactly common, but you could find some weapons on 'Mechs imported from the Inner Sphere.
Light Gauss Rifle - available on SHD-7M Shadow Hawk.

JumpingHunter, on 24 November 2023 - 04:28 AM, said:

Definitely restricting myself to Standard Heatsinks,

Doubles are quite common in the Periphery.

JumpingHunter, on 24 November 2023 - 04:28 AM, said:

and i guess no Info-Warfare electronics, unless it's something that had a deal with Capellans.

ECM+Stealth - available on Eyleuka

JumpingHunter, on 24 November 2023 - 04:28 AM, said:

But here lies the question: what about Ferro-Fibrous or Endo-Steel armor?

I definitely want to have more free tonnage for actually decent weaponry (even if it's outdated), but do periphery states like Magistracy of Canopus or Taurian Concordat have access to that? I know that Endo Steel is definitely hard to build with Zero-G facilities required, but what about Ferro-Fibrous, does it appear in periphery at least sometimes?

No problem, many Koschei variants have ES chassis and FF or Light FF armor.

JumpingHunter, on 24 November 2023 - 04:28 AM, said:

And another question that buggs me is whether or not periphery states had wide access to MRM missles? I am a big fan of MRMs, i tend to put them in every missle-capable mech i have, but they are rather new, and also were developed by Draconis Combine, which is known for making a high-tech weapons. But they also seem to mostly be a successor of "Dead-Fire" LRM ammo, which bid away targeting system in favor of more damage per missle or more ammo per ton, AND "Dead-Fire" was more of a cheap periphery trade-off, and not a specific properly-made alternative. So are MRMs considered to be in same category as Heavy and Light PPCs, or are them more avaliable on periphery? I would kill for MRMs on my Vindicator instead of SRM6, but idk if that would be appropriate...

Magistracy uses Helios armed with MRM-20.

JumpingHunter, on 24 November 2023 - 04:28 AM, said:

So i ask you, fellow mechwarriors, is it canon and logically-approved to have a "periphery" unit running mechs on Endo Steel and with Ferro-Firbrous armoring, and also equipped with MRMs?

No big problem, I would say. Of course, some weapons and components are imported from eleswhere, but this is not unusual in the BattleTech universe.

Edited by martian, 24 November 2023 - 09:05 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

martian, on 24 November 2023 - 08:16 AM, said:

All right, so let us assume that we are in mid-3070s because HAGs and Blazers are commonly used in the game.


snip

No big problem, I would say. Of course, some weapons and components are imported from eleswhere, but this is not unusual in the BattleTech universe.

This. Imports more than anything else. The issue they may run into is repairing or replacing damaged or destroyed components, unless one is not a dirt farmer. Then there are omnis which have modular components, most requiring only a few hours to switch out/recalibrate. vs battlemechs, which could take days or months, depending on how effective one wanted things to work at optimal levels.

You could always stay with Stock builds, regardless of era. Visit Sarna.net. There are other resources but the main issue between using stock loadout between the medians is that Battletech utilizes dice roll for EACH weapon, not TIC (weapon group) then another roll for hit location for each weapon vs MWO FPS. Using Sarna though could get you in the ballpark of how to equip specific variants while also ensuring you do not short yourself in MWO (ie full armor, front loaded, etc)..

You could go even further and keep a log/excel./etc for your mechbays, and use Mechwarrior RP to determine if/when a mech could receive an upgrade/sidegrade and how long said mech is out of commission.

And for Endo/Ferro, endo is not armor, but a weight saving frame that takes up crit slots is not something that can be switched out on a mech, it is the chassis used to build the mech. Technically in-universe, it'd take a fundamental factory-level refit to implement endo-steel; it's the core skeleton of the 'mech being replaced.

With that said, buying, stealing, capturing, salvaging said mech then keeping it close to its base setup would be one route to take. It eventually comes down to how far do you want to go to have your "type" of fun or challenge!!.

And what mechs are your favorite mechs at the moment and why? Example, mine are Shadow Hawks, T-bolts, Warhammers Battlemasters, the occasional Wolfhound and Huntsmans, (configuration similar to Shadow Hawks, and I have not change out the actual omnipods, just the weapons). Mine are setup for both long and mid range. I like to be able to reach out and touch someone then have additional backup weapons when we close. Whereas many would stay with either purely long range or pack them for close range.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 24 November 2023 - 12:22 PM.

[JumpingHunter]

martian, on 24 November 2023 - 08:16 AM, said:

All right, so let us assume that we are in mid-3070s because HAGs and Blazers are commonly used in the game.


XLE - available on SHD-7M Shadow Hawk.
LFE - available on Marshall


ER lasers - available on KSC-5MC Koschei.


Heavy PPC - available on the Periphery variant of Goliath
Light PPC - available on Marshall
Snub-Nose PPC - available on KSC-5MC Koschei.


Not exactly common, but you could find some weapons on 'Mechs imported from the Inner Sphere.
Light Gauss Rifle - available on SHD-7M Shadow Hawk.

Doubles are quite common in the Periphery.


ECM+Stealth - available on Eyleuka


No problem, many Koschei variants have ES chassis and FF or Light FF armor.


Magistracy uses Helios armed with MRM-20.


No big problem, I would say. Of course, some weapons and components are imported from eleswhere, but this is not unusual in the BattleTech universe.

That is a big list, thank you very much! Of course the question is how well could that be maintained, but that's another story, and with things like Trinity Alliance and general periphery trading import of specific components should't be THAT big of a problem.

[JumpingHunter]

Tarl Cabot, on 24 November 2023 - 12:20 PM, said:

This. Imports more than anything else. The issue they may run into is repairing or replacing damaged or destroyed components, unless one is not a dirt farmer. Then there are omnis which have modular components, most requiring only a few hours to switch out/recalibrate. vs battlemechs, which could take days or months, depending on how effective one wanted things to work at optimal levels.

You could always stay with Stock builds, regardless of era. Visit Sarna.net. There are other resources but the main issue between using stock loadout between the medians is that Battletech utilizes dice roll for EACH weapon, not TIC (weapon group) then another roll for hit location for each weapon vs MWO FPS. Using Sarna though could get you in the ballpark of how to equip specific variants while also ensuring you do not short yourself in MWO (ie full armor, front loaded, etc)..

You could go even further and keep a log/excel./etc for your mechbays, and use Mechwarrior RP to determine if/when a mech could receive an upgrade/sidegrade and how long said mech is out of commission.

And for Endo/Ferro, endo is not armor, but a weight saving frame that takes up crit slots is not something that can be switched out on a mech, it is the chassis used to build the mech. Technically in-universe, it'd take a fundamental factory-level refit to implement endo-steel; it's the core skeleton of the 'mech being replaced.

With that said, buying, stealing, capturing, salvaging said mech then keeping it close to its base setup would be one route to take. It eventually comes down to how far do you want to go to have your "type" of fun or challenge!!.

And what mechs are your favorite mechs at the moment and why? Example, mine are Shadow Hawks, T-bolts, Warhammers Battlemasters, the occasional Wolfhound and Huntsmans, (configuration similar to Shadow Hawks, and I have not change out the actual omnipods, just the weapons). Mine are setup for both long and mid range. I like to be able to reach out and touch someone then have additional backup weapons when we close. Whereas many would stay with either purely long range or pack them for close range.

My favourites at the moment are Vindicator (№1 above all), Wolverine, IS Hunchback and Orion, and i am starting to pick myself a proper Shadow Hawk, all equipped with mixed arsenal for close and medium range combat, up to 550-650 meters, with occasional LRM here and there. I too love to engage enemies at different ranges and overall just like older "generalist" designs from SW era, instead of specialized machines, like pure brawlers or pure LRM boats and etc, but i tend to easily dive into a close range brawl and can't really get back to medium range fight 'til the end of match. Im mostly a medium mech player, so i can't really rely on sitting behind a corner with crap ton of lasers, like some assaults, and generally prefer jumping around poking people.

I know about endo steel and that it takes full reassembly of mech on new skeleton, but the main question was if Ferro-Fibrous armor is more accessible than endo steel, as it seems to be just a different armor plating, should be more easily switchable than an entire mech skeleton, and probably even more easily producable too.

The stock builds are nice to stick to, as they tend to be balanced and not too specialized, but in modern MWO most of game's own or TT stock outfits are rather ineffective, one could be very short of weapons, and other trades away too much armor to be reliable. I tried to rework MWO's designs a bit while keeping the tech level roughly the same, just to make sure that there's enough of a punch to affect the game in any meaningful way and enough armor to not die after eating one HAG40 salvo. Plus it's just satisfying to make something with limited tech level that actually works well and can compete with average QP builds, all while following the "generalist" design rules and not being just "6xLPPC" or "12xLMG" or something like that. I can see this existing in-universe, but that just feels not serious, and rather videogame-y, if you understand what i mean.

[Tarl Cabot]

My Shadow Hawks, the 2K will have LL/ERLL/Binary/PPC/ERPPC/LPPC and SRMs. The others with ballistics have UACs, ERML and SRM. Even on the heavy energy variant, will have a min 2xSRM2 or 2xSRM4.

in the end, if ya not RP the periphery to the extreme, do not worry about the overall min/max, field more than one weapon type/range. Do not worry about Up/Down arrow and Tier. Tier is simply used for the MM, and tier movement, the PSR points earned/lost is based on how a player does against the other 23 players in each match, not the general population.

[JumpingHunter]

Tarl Cabot, on 24 November 2023 - 02:45 PM, said:

My Shadow Hawks, the 2K will have LL/ERLL/Binary/PPC/ERPPC/LPPC and SRMs. The others with ballistics have UACs, ERML and SRM. Even on the heavy energy variant, will have a min 2xSRM2 or 2xSRM4.

in the end, if ya not RP the periphery to the extreme, do not worry about the overall min/max, field more than one weapon type/range. Do not worry about Up/Down arrow and Tier. Tier is simply used for the MM, and tier movement, the PSR points earned/lost is based on how a player does against the other 23 players in each match, not the general population.

Yeah, that seems about right. Didn't know that MM compares you to all other 23 players, no wonders why i get down arrow with about 400-500 damage on these obsolete mechs. Thanks for answers!

[Tarl Cabot]

JumpingHunter, on 25 November 2023 - 02:04 AM, said:

Yeah, that seems about right. Didn't know that MM compares you to all other 23 players, no wonders why i get down arrow with about 400-500 damage on these obsolete mechs. Thanks for answers!

The update/down arrow is from the match score. Damage applies approx 46% of its points to the Matchscore. So if you did 400dmg, that is converted to approx 184 MS points, but the MS is not just damage, there are other triggers to add to the MS. Below is another thread where a player was not happy with the MM, and he was not aware of how PSR was calculated that moved a player up/down/equal. I had a game (on an alt) where I ended with with an UP arrow (went up 2 pts) and had just a 145 MS (261 dmg = 120 MS pts). And nay, I do not always go and enter the numbers. I thought the game was bugged if I ended up with an UP arrow with just a 145 MS.


https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__6519578

[martian]

JumpingHunter, on 24 November 2023 - 01:41 PM, said:

That is a big list, thank you very much! Of course the question is how well could that be maintained, but that's another story, and with things like Trinity Alliance and general periphery trading import of specific components should't be THAT big of a problem.

It was just a quick job.

As I said above, not all Periphery realms are equal.

The aforementioned Magistracy would have no insurmountable problems with maintaining quite advanced 'Mechs because they either produce them (using a quite modern technology) or import them (with modern weapons and equipment) from the Capellan Condeferation.
Essentially, they are a Capellan B-team.

On the other hand, you would have significant problems with replacing or repairing damaged or destroyed weapons and systems of your modern BattleMech on some backwater Periphery planets. After few skirmishes with pirates, your magnificent Tian-Zong would be practically beyond repair: Lost some Stealth armor? The local planet has only some limited supply of standard armor. Damaged double heat sinks? A few singles is all that you can have. Damaged engine shielding? No local technician has seen such materials before and definitely there is no way to obtain such advanced materials ... Replenish your Gauss ammo? The next resupply DropShip will arrive in a few months ... maybe.

etc.

So do not take the BattleTech lore too seriously - it has not much in common with the MWO gameplay.

[JumpingHunter]

martian, on 25 November 2023 - 11:03 AM, said:

So do not take the BattleTech lore too seriously - it has not much in common with the MWO gameplay.

That seem to be more true than i would like, so i guess i just go with whatever feels apropriate AND usable.

[martian]

JumpingHunter, on 28 November 2023 - 12:32 PM, said:

That seem to be more true than i would like, so i guess i just go with whatever feels apropriate AND usable.

You play for fun, so use any 'Mech and weapon system that you like.

Also, I would like to mention that many Periphery 'Mechs sport Rocket Launchers of all sizes, often in big numbers. Something like "Hangover" has, or even more numerous.