50 replies to this topic

[Luminios]

HAGs have been in the game for a couple months now and they have been nerfed again and again. I think after the latest patch they are probably in a good place. I personally played mostly the HAG20, which have arguably changed the least since their release.

Honestly, I think they might even have gone a bit too far in toning HAGs down, as a lot of what made them perform so well had nothing to do with the weapon and all with the player base. The game is shaped a lot by how styles of play and weapons are perceived. Brawl is completely viable and even strong, but even in an event queue with 25% extra speed and 50% extra armor people are playing extremely scared. I think with HAGs it is similar. Yes, they make the alpha of that hagvom mech look big and scary, but the weapon is hot, heavy, charges and has duration without being hitscan. If you have just some movement lasers and HAG are going to spread as one takes time to reach the target while the other doesn't.

90% of why you are doing so poorly against HAGs is that you just stand there and take it. https://imgur.com/pZoN7LO

[MechB Kotare]

Good luck arguing with people who don't want to understand this. They are still better than most close and middle range ballistics though. cAC10/20s, and UACs should be buffed.

Also, i personally understand, that this game needs to be more noob friendly (no offense to doomers), for it to last few years longer.

Edited by MechB Kotare, 28 November 2023 - 10:58 AM.

[Haipyng]

This is much the same reason why LRMS were nerfed to death. People staying in the open while being rained on. Of course, when dealing with groups of either, its annoying be it HAGs or LRMs.

[Weeny Machine]

MechB Kotare, on 28 November 2023 - 10:55 AM, said:

Good luck arguing with people who don't want to understand this. They are still better than most close and middle range ballistics though. cAC10/20s, and UACs should be buffed.

Also, i personally understand, that this game needs to be more noob friendly (no offense to doomers), for it to last few years longer.

Using ad homines like "who don't want to understand this" and "doomers" really make your points convincing but even more so does the suggestion not to get the HAGs down a notch more but buff ACs which in turn leads to lowerin the TTK even further and buffing heavy mechs which usually carries. Sorry, but I think your great wisdom is really lost on us noobs which only use common sense.

[Cyborne Elemental]

If they had gone with LBX style as they were intended like in TT it would be less of a problem.

So now we just have long range UAC-20 at twice the damage, and 800m optimal range with less weight.

More pellets per volley, short duration, with a fixed cone of fire, more like MRM or RAC.
Meaning chance to hit goes up, but overall damage is spread not by duration, but by volley size.

But everyone wants uber snipe gauss.

How about fix Clan AC's and UAC's and take HAG's back to the drawing board.

[MechB Kotare]

Weeny Machine, on 28 November 2023 - 11:10 AM, said:

Using ad homines like "who don't want to understand this" and "doomers" really make your points convincing but even more so does the suggestion not to get the HAGs down a notch more but buff ACs which in turn leads to lowerin the TTK even further and buffing heavy mechs which usually carries. Sorry, but I think your great wisdom is really lost on us noobs which only use common sense.

Coming from someone, who claims, that hags can one shot a light from across the map. But sure. Keep staying still in the most agile mech class in the game, and lets nerf a weapon that has less than 1% chance to do that otherwise. Common sense...

Something tells me, TTK will always be low for you.

Edited by MechB Kotare, 28 November 2023 - 11:51 AM.

[KursedVixen]

Frost_byte said they were too effective within 600 meters, I don't agree clan have needed a good big burst weapon in mid range combat for awhile to compete with the many options IS has... I don't agree with Hag's being sniper weapons I always used them as mid range close range burst weapons to scare people, I've been killed more by x-pulse and binary lasers than HAGS maybe because i don't stand around and take it?

Cyborne Elemental, on 28 November 2023 - 11:11 AM, said:

If they had gone with LBX style as they were intended like in TT it would be less of a problem.

So now we just have long range UAC-20 at twice the damage, and 800m optimal range with less weight.

More pellets per volley, short duration, with a fixed cone of fire, more like MRM or RAC.
Meaning chance to hit goes up, but overall damage is spread not by duration, but by volley size.

But everyone wants uber snipe gauss.

How about fix Clan AC's and UAC's and take HAG's back to the drawing board.

what about clan Ac's needs fixed?

[CFC Conky]

MechB Kotare, on 28 November 2023 - 10:55 AM, said:

Good luck arguing with people who don't want to understand this. They are still better than most close and middle range ballistics though. cAC10/20s, and UACs should be buffed.

Also, i personally understand, that this game needs to be more noob friendly (no offense to doomers), for it to last few years longer.

Down at my Tier, HAGs aren't a huge problem if I'm running lights or fast mediums, a bit more problematic when running heavies. On the other hand, when I'm in an assault mech, HAGs can be a real pain. I understand the argument about never standing still but at 48.6kph you might as well be, at any range.

I also hear the argument that with the increased burst duration, one can simply twist and spread the damage. Ok, but if you're being fired upon by an enemy outside of you viewing arc, or even simply well hidden by terrain, by the time the first HAG round hits and your brain registers that you should twist, most, if not all, of the slugs have already hit a particular component.

At mid and/or close range, HAGs don't bother me too much since I'm usually aware of the enemy and their load out and will act accordingly. At long range however, they need a spread increase, in my opinion.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 28 November 2023 - 12:28 PM.

[w0qj]

Amen!

Agree 100%

HAG need more spread at longer range!

[LordNothing]

hags really aren't that big of a problem; you get at most a 60 point gh free alpha. which is small compared to the penalty free alphas lasers will give you. if you really want to reduce ttk you will start looking at capping or penalizing the big alphas. certain laser combos can hit a lot harder than 60. hags are just everyone's new favorite scapegoat, people were getting bored scapegoating erlls.

[Vxheous]

Cyborne Elemental, on 28 November 2023 - 11:11 AM, said:

So now we just have long range UAC-20 at twice the damage, and 800m optimal range with less weight.

This is completely incorrect. UAC-20 at a double tap is 40 damage, at 12 tons and 8 slots with a base 4 second cooldown, 6 heat but only 360m optimal range. Meanwhile a HAG-40 is 40 damage at 16 tons and 10 slots with a base 6.5 second cooldown, 14! heat but has 810 optimal range.

Where is this less weight more damage business you speak of?

[foamyesque]

Vxheous, on 28 November 2023 - 09:20 PM, said:

This is completely incorrect. UAC-20 at a double tap is 40 damage, at 12 tons and 8 slots with a base 4 second cooldown, 6 heat but only 360m optimal range. Meanwhile a HAG-40 is 40 damage at 16 tons and 10 slots with a base 6.5 second cooldown, 14! heat but has 810 optimal range.

12 heat for a double tap on the UAC20. The heat differential's not large, and prior to the Nov. changes was actually slightly in favour of the HAG40.

[Vxheous]

foamyesque, on 28 November 2023 - 09:33 PM, said:

12 heat for a double tap on the UAC20. The heat differential's not large, and prior to the Nov. changes was actually slightly in favour of the HAG40.

That's true, I didn't account for the double tap heat. The rest of my statement still stands.

Edited by Vxheous, 28 November 2023 - 09:38 PM.

[foamyesque]

Vxheous, on 28 November 2023 - 09:37 PM, said:

That's true, I didn't account for the double tap heat. The rest of my statement still stands.

Yep. S'why I didn't argue the rest of it :v

[VeeOt Dragon]

Cyborne Elemental, on 28 November 2023 - 11:11 AM, said:

If they had gone with LBX style as they were intended like in TT it would be less of a problem.

So now we just have long range UAC-20 at twice the damage, and 800m optimal range with less weight.

More pellets per volley, short duration, with a fixed cone of fire, more like MRM or RAC.
Meaning chance to hit goes up, but overall damage is spread not by duration, but by volley size.

But everyone wants uber snipe gauss.

How about fix Clan AC's and UAC's and take HAG's back to the drawing board.

honestly i agree with this and making HAGs more of a Gauss LBX (as in TT) it would open the door for IS to get Silver Bullet Guass as well. then again Cauldron are a long range sniper club for the most part so thats what we get

[Cyborne Elemental]

In my opinion, HAGS were the counter to IS MRM.

I don't know the exact details, but it was always a roll of the dice for how many projectiles would hit and where with any burst/scatter weapon.

What is the point of using a CAC-20 or UAC-20, when you can use a HAG-40 and play at all ranges for roughly the same weight and podspace.

The spread was there for a reason, and the Cauldron's interpretation of the HAG as a weapon does not fit the role of maintaining balance vs other ballistic options.

[H4RDCA5E]

VeeOt Dragon, on 29 November 2023 - 06:17 AM, said:

honestly i agree with this and making HAGs more of a Gauss LBX (as in TT) it would open the door for IS to get Silver Bullet Guass as well. then again Cauldron are a long range sniper club for the most part so thats what we get

+1
+And/Or Pairing the ranges from IS gauss variants with the correspondent hags and also making them available for IS would be a sensible decision too.

[Weeny Machine]

MechB Kotare, on 28 November 2023 - 11:15 AM, said:

Coming from someone, who claims, that hags can one shot a light from across the map. But sure. Keep staying still in the most agile mech class in the game, and lets nerf a weapon that has less than 1% chance to do that otherwise. Common sense...

Something tells me, TTK will always be low for you.

And again this belittling combined with a pitiful strawman. Every mech, regardless of speed, stands still now and then. And if someone sits somewhere and gets a bead on you, then it can be already over.

But let me answer in the tone you favour: maybe it is just you who cannot position yourself and shoot that way to make this happen if you think it that unbelievable?

[Luminios]

Some of you didn't watch the GIF and it shows.

[feeWAIVER]

I don't use hags or gauss because I don't like the charge up time..honestly ,it throws off my timing, throws off my aim.
I assume a lot of people get angry when they are killed by a weapon they themselves don't like to use.

In reality, look at your team in any given game. There will be like 1 guy using hags.