32 replies to this topic

[Moadebe]

Someone suggested I share the Mech stats for QP between Nov 1st and Dec 5th.

So here they are! If you have ever been curious as to what mechs are played the most currently or not enough. Here you go!

I wonder what that Dire Wolf is doin....hmmmm



(This was originally posted on the Cauldron Feedback Discord by Navid. Very insightful stuff and I give full credit to whoever put this together over there for this graphic.)

Edited by Moadebe, 10 December 2023 - 07:32 AM.

[torsie]

Blood Asp! Blood Asp! Blood Asp!

[KingCobra]

This is wonderful finally some good stats pulled off the server and something to Analize instead of all the crappola topics.

Now if they could do like the last 3 months of all the maps played in solo quick play it would prove the point that we need to go back to RANDOM map selection and get rid of this god-awful voting system once and for all.

Voting on game modes is ok or random is ok on that as well. Whoever is tired of playing the same maps every night for years post here on your opinions.

[Bud Crue]

I really wish they could see/share down to the variant level.

Also, given the data shown, it does make me wonder what criteria the Cauldron uses to decide to buff/adjust certain mechs. For example Kintaros were given a buff pass back in March, yet according to this they still have the lowest survivability (the chart is hard to read so I may have missed something else being lower), so maybe another pass is in order? Or even looking at stats within weight classes, you've got a mech like the Victor looking relatively poor in all categories; that suggests to me that it still needs help as well. Etc.

[KingCobra]

Your right Bud I agree and like you said you can see the mechs that need some love as in smaller hitboxes to armor changes I personally still play a lot of older or non-meta mechs which are in the red and that's what I think might be needed to make them viable in actual gameplay. (Hitboxes fixed or more armor to specific weak spots.

P.S with all the overpowered long rage meta these mech types are almost a 1 shot kill or severely crippled in battles to be unplayable.

Edited by KingCobra, 10 December 2023 - 08:29 AM.

[JediPanther]

Bud Crue, on 10 December 2023 - 08:07 AM, said:

I really wish they could see/share down to the variant level.

Me too. Unsurprising the Jenners are nearly the worst lights in the game with about a 3.9. difference between is and clan. I'd love to see how my once favorite mech jenner d fares now. It was a beast before 2016.

[KingCobra]

JediPanther, on 10 December 2023 - 08:30 AM, said:

Me too. Unsurprising the Jenners are nearly the worst lights in the game with about a 3.9. difference between is and clan. I'd love to see how my once favorite mech jenner d fares now. It was a beast before 2016.

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That was right before the start of all the missile nerfs in 2017 now anything except long range meta (lasers or ballistic or ppc ETC.has been nerfed into oblivion and it suckksss that certain player groups got there way, and the rest of the player base got shhittt on. and the nerfs were all missle types not just LRMs.

Edited by KingCobra, 10 December 2023 - 08:35 AM.

[Besh]

JediPanther, on 10 December 2023 - 08:30 AM, said:

Me too. Unsurprising the Jenners are nearly the worst lights in the game with about a 3.9. difference between is and clan. I'd love to see how my once favorite mech jenner d fares now. It was a beast before 2016.

The D was my favourite 'Mech before resize, and the 'Mech that made me fall in Love with zoomzoompewpew .
The it got its nose, and I found the LCT-E .

Edited by Besh, 10 December 2023 - 12:16 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bud Crue, on 10 December 2023 - 08:07 AM, said:

Also, given the data shown, it does make me wonder what criteria the Cauldron uses to decide to buff/adjust certain mechs. For example Kintaros were given a buff pass back in March, yet according to this they still have the lowest survivability (the chart is hard to read so I may have missed something else being lower), so maybe another pass is in order? Or even looking at stats within weight classes, you've got a mech like the Victor looking relatively poor in all categories; that suggests to me that it still needs help as well. Etc.

IMO survivability alone might not be the best metric, for example Atlases still have awful survivability given the amount of armor they are given, but they are also often the focus the moment they appear for exactly that reason (let alone because they are an assault). The real metric I'm curious about is around how much damage is taken on death (ie, damage taken but only for matches where the mech died). Both the minimum (minus headshot deaths), maximum, and distributions because IMO that tells you a lot more about how well a mech survives. Survivability % can be simply due to role it takes that causes it to often not survive even in wins.

[aardappelianen]

wow people do play trebuchets

[Tarteso]

Usage and the other metrics are pretty similar among classes, specially if considering the weighted arithmetic mean. Avg dmg is bigger for heavies and assaults, which makes sense. So, lights aren't the less played mechs anymore ? Since when, if anyone cares in analyzing older data?

[crazytimes]

It is interesting some of the classic meta mechs have dissapeared. Linebackers were all the rage until Timberwolf got buffed into usefulness, summoner seems to have ended up the same. Vulcans were pretty trendy, blackjack seems to have filled that niche after all it's buffs.

Highlander remains unplayed. I got a heavy metal for the meme, and it's one of the few meme mechs I bought that I just can't do anything useful with. I am absolutely a factor in it's terribad winrate in that table. I shall continue to play it in my own special bad way until it gets buffed into utility,

[Bennesto]

Still smiling about the fact that the Centurion is apparently a very popular medium chassis.

[Moadebe]

Bennesto, on 10 December 2023 - 11:41 PM, said:

Still smiling about the fact that the Centurion is apparently a very popular medium chassis.

I mean who doesn't wanna learn the twist...

[Der Geisterbaer]

Tarteso, on 10 December 2023 - 03:39 PM, said:

Usage and the other metrics are pretty similar among classes, specially if considering the weighted arithmetic mean.

Which numbers are you looking at exactly there to come to this conclusion?

• Lights have 309160 drops in total (lowest absolute number) across 22 Light chassis => Average drop number is ~14053 within just the Light class but drops to ~2811 across all 110 chassis.
  
• Mediums have 366429 drops in total (second lowest absolute number) across 29 chassis => Average drop number ~ 12214 within just Medium class but drop to ~3.331 across all 110 chassis.
  
• Heavies have 480076 drops in total (second highest absolute number) across 28 chassis => Average drop number is ~16554 within Heavy class but drop to ~4364 across all 110 chassis.
  
• Assaults have 565218 drops in total (highest absolute number) across 31 chassis => Average drop number is ~17663 within just Assault class but drop to ~5138 across all 110 chassis.

I certainly would not call that "similar" in terms of usage. In both ways of looking at those numbers there's a rather significant difference for both Lights and Mediums where Lights are the absolute losers, the relative losers across all chassis and Mediums being the flatout relative losers across weight class after the Light class that does better there but still falls farther behind Heavies and Assaults than it manages to outperform Mediums in this scenario.

[edit]Now obviously the data is not entirely complete (1720883 counted mech drops vs. 1720896 required for 71704 QP matches with 24 mechs each) but if we were to stipulate a desired equal distribution across 4 weight classes then the drops per class should work out to 430224 drops in each weight class which only Heavies hit within a reasonable margin of about +-10% and once again Lights are left in the dust along with Mediums[/edit]

Tarteso, on 10 December 2023 - 03:39 PM, said:

So, lights aren't the less played mechs anymore ?

I would say that your conclusion is a bit "off" there.

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 11 December 2023 - 10:52 AM.

[KingCobra]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 10 December 2023 - 02:55 PM, said:

IMO survivability alone might not be the best metric, for example Atlases still have awful survivability given the amount of armor they are given, but they are also often the focus the moment they appear for exactly that reason (let alone because they are an assault). The real metric I'm curious about is around how much damage is taken on death (ie, damage taken but only for matches where the mech died). Both the minimum (minus headshot deaths), maximum, and distributions because IMO that tells you a lot more about how well a mech survives. Survivability % can be simply due to role it takes that causes it to often not survive even in wins.

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Let me put it to you in these terms most of my mechs win or lose have a higher self-damage % than its damage output % per battle example my atlases take 800 damage per battle and my output damage is usually 400-600 per battle. This across most of my 340 mechs vary but in most cases, I'm taking more damage than I do to enemy's now days.

And it's not my armor amount I run full armor on 95% of my mechs it's my skill set I run 80% full defensive skills to even try to compete in battles. When i run a mech before i skill it up I'm usually killed in just a few minutes of game play or severely crippled as to only do a few hundred damage output.

MWO is now becoming like Mechwarrior4 at the end of its life cycle 95 percent of the mechs that were played were assaults no others but a few heavies ( 7 er nova) ETC could even survive as weapons were modified to be 6x overpowered compared to stock values, so Armor meant nothing in MechWarrior4 just like MWO is becoming now armor right now in MWO is totally useless and the only compensation to all the overpowered weapons in MWO are the skill set you can provide your mech for defensive ability's.

So basically, MWO even though its different in many ways to Mechwarrior 4 is going down the same path at the end of its life cycle. The assaults were also buffed to be more agile than a medium mech the insanity never ended until the game just died.

P.S plus we don't have hitbox sizes meshes ECT per mech to even find out how much damage per mech component is happening to even try to resurrect so many mechs back to usefulness in this chart lowering weapons output damage back to normal on some weapons and buffing some weapons back to usefulness like SRMS ECT might be a start to a longer TTK and some kind of normal non overpowered weapon gameplay plus reevaluate armor and hitboxes for some kind of defensive abilitys.

Edited by KingCobra, 11 December 2023 - 01:02 AM.

[Samziel]

Fafnirs one of the best performing assaults with the highest survival rate? But I was told hitbox change bad! lol

Edited by Samziel, 11 December 2023 - 12:57 AM.

[Frost_Byte]

Bud Crue, on 10 December 2023 - 08:07 AM, said:

I really wish they could see/share down to the variant level.

Also, given the data shown, it does make me wonder what criteria the Cauldron uses to decide to buff/adjust certain mechs. For example Kintaros were given a buff pass back in March, yet according to this they still have the lowest survivability (the chart is hard to read so I may have missed something else being lower), so maybe another pass is in order? Or even looking at stats within weight classes, you've got a mech like the Victor looking relatively poor in all categories; that suggests to me that it still needs help as well. Etc.

You can. I'm the owner of the spreadsheet he screenshotted, here's a link. Tabs 2 and 3 are what you want.
https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

We generate these for Cauldron on a quarterly basis, though this time someone asked I do a month capture to get a picture that has the loyalty mechs as well. As for balancing, this spreadsheet doesn't do as much as some would think. Cauldron balances based on power, not popularity. For example, the Executioner is one of the least used assaults yet it is ranked as one of the most powerful assaults. If you watched the MWO Championship Series this year, its usage rate was very, very high.

[KingCobra]

Frost_Byte, on 11 December 2023 - 01:01 AM, said:

You can. I'm the owner of the spreadsheet he screenshotted, here's a link. Tabs 2 and 3 are what you want.
https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

We generate these for Cauldron on a quarterly basis, though this time someone asked I do a month capture to get a picture that has the loyalty mechs as well. As for balancing, this spreadsheet doesn't do as much as some would think. Cauldron balances based on power, not popularity. For example, the Executioner is one of the least used assaults yet it is ranked as one of the most powerful assaults. If you watched the MWO Championship Series this year, its usage rate was very, very high.

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Dude Thank you .

[Brizna]

crazytimes, on 10 December 2023 - 07:08 PM, said:

It is interesting some of the classic meta mechs have dissapeared. Linebackers were all the rage until Timberwolf got buffed into usefulness, summoner seems to have ended up the same. Vulcans were pretty trendy, blackjack seems to have filled that niche after all it's buffs.

Highlander remains unplayed. I got a heavy metal for the meme, and it's one of the few meme mechs I bought that I just can't do anything useful with. I am absolutely a factor in it's terribad winrate in that table. I shall continue to play it in my own special bad way until it gets buffed into utility,

Timberwolf is the most popular mech in the Battletech franchise so as long as it is not a **** it's going to be played a lot. I think in terms of power is in a good spot in MWO, competitive but not too much.

In my opinion Summoner SRM spam is pretty much as good as it used to be, the problem is that now that long range is viable again actual brawling is more difficult to do and takes a lot more effort in some maps, if you are at least fast it helps... but Summoner isn't.

I think Heavy Metal with 2MRM30 and 3LPPC/2Snubs is a decent mech, at least it always works well for me. I use to measure a mech's value on how "well" they do in a bad match (not catastrophic just bad) and I don't remember any matches under 300 for it.