20 replies to this topic

[WaffleStorm]

I've been playing this game a while, and I've noticed that I sometimes play games with folks that I know to be Tier 1 or 2 players. I am currently Tier 4 and don't have the time (or the inclination) to play such one-sided matches. It's bad enough that I'm not a very good player to begin with. So here's what I suggest.

If you are in a Quick Play match with players 2+ tiers below your current level, you play against them with a 25% damage handicap.

BTW - I ONLY play Quick Play because every time I have dropped into Faction play, the other team is just waiting for you to spawn at the spawn point and will kill you right there. Why would I want to play THAT game?!?!?!?

There is no point in having players that play for 6+ hours a day(Sean Lang) play against players that don't play as much and are just trying to have fun, and not be slaughtered all the time. This is NO FUN for your lower tier players, and I would argue, drives people away from playing your game.

Just an idea.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Well tier 4 players will drop against tier 2 players if everything is fine. You’ll only see tier 1 players when there’s a group throwing off the math or when there are too few players on to give everyone a game in a reasonable amount of time… it’ll just take the players it has and a start the match.

plus I don’t want to think of what the game engine will do when calculating damage if it also has to figure in whose missile or bullet that was. Not good things, I’d imagine, you’d have to build in new logic that isn’t there at present.

[crazytimes]

Can you share some screenshots or recordings? Even a single one?

Just because they have a tag doesn't mean they are tier 1. I didn't find any tier 1 players that I could identify until I hit tier 3, and they didn't become common until tier 2.

[Bud Crue]

crazytimes, on 16 December 2023 - 02:52 PM, said:

Can you share some screenshots or recordings? Even a single one?

Just because they have a tag doesn't mean they are tier 1. I didn't find any tier 1 players that I could identify until I hit tier 3, and they didn't become common until tier 2.

This is the way OP. I am pretty consistently mediocre to occasionally being utterly terrible at this game and yet I occasionally get called out by others as being a T1, and even more laughably a "comp player". Just last night I was accused of being a "pro". Yet I have been solidly T2 for the last couple of years (since shortly after the last MM fix/revision/modification pass).

As to you seeing folks like Sean Lang et al., it is as ScrapIron Prime said above, he's dropping with lower tier players and that is throwing off the math/gating. It happens.

[RockmachinE]

There are so many factors in MWO its impossible to really make a balanced game. Don't worry, T1 games get just as lopsided and stompy.

[1Exitar1]

crazytimes, on 16 December 2023 - 02:52 PM, said:

Can you share some screenshots or recordings? Even a single one?

Just because they have a tag doesn't mean they are tier 1. I didn't find any tier 1 players that I could identify until I hit tier 3, and they didn't become common until tier 2.

I know for a FACT that I played against Tier ones in one of my very first matches. Thankfully Sean Lang and his group were on my side! They commented on how I still had my trainee tag and told me to just stick close to them.

So, it does happen and it seems to be happening much more often now. I've recently had pilots ask how to see through the snow effect on the frozen maps! Granted, they might not still be trainees, but they are still tier 5 or 4, at best.

[SolCrusher]

1Exitar1, on 16 December 2023 - 09:35 PM, said:

I know for a FACT that I played against Tier ones in one of my very first matches. Thankfully Sean Lang and his group were on my side! They commented on how I still had my trainee tag and told me to just stick close to them.

So, it does happen and it seems to be happening much more often now. I've recently had pilots ask how to see through the snow effect on the frozen maps! Granted, they might not still be trainees, but they are still tier 5 or 4, at best.

I'm in Tier 4 land and see T1 guys all the time. TTB and Sean Lang have been on myside a couple times.

Could just be the day time players for me.

Edited by SolCrusher, 16 December 2023 - 10:30 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

crazytimes, on 16 December 2023 - 02:52 PM, said:

Can you share some screenshots or recordings? Even a single one?

Just because they have a tag doesn't mean they are tier 1. I didn't find any tier 1 players that I could identify until I hit tier 3, and they didn't become common until tier 2.

^^This^^. And the MM appears to take the group average, and that is not the Actual Tier then dividing it by the number in the group but the average PSR points. Nor does it take the highest tier level.. Each Tier is 1000 pts, so a Tier 4 would Tier 5 0-999 PSR pts be 1000-1999 PSR pts, etc.

And take into consideration when the MM selects the first player or group, that seeds the match level, ie group average or player is a Tier 3.then the other players are selected.

Occasionally I will see "Cadets" tags, it is rare but it happens. It will depend what Tier the seeded player was, as well as the average of the group. And the few times I have seen Cadet tags, they have been part of a group drop.

0876 pt - Tier 5
2412 pt - Tier 3
4872 pt - Tier 1
------
8160 / 3 = 2730 (Tier 3 aveage)

Seeded player, Tier 4 can be grouped with Tier 5 and Tier 3. And the seeded player is matched with others, plus or minus 2 tiers. So a Tier 5 COULD be in the same match as a grouped Tier 1 with lower tiered players, and their Tier average falls within the appropriate range.

This is sticky thread in the Announcement subs. This thread is essentially what lead to the current PSR setup. Previous PSR setup, almost everyone and their dog and cat would be in Tier 1/2/3 with a a smattering of new players in the lower gears. SolCrusher would likely be Tier 2 and the OP WaffleStorm of this thread would be in Tier 1, simply based on his average MS and W;L ratio. Back then we had players in Tier 1 who had an average 173 MS, 0.83 W/L ratio, and had gotten there by brute force of 25K+ games.

PSR UPDATE AND HOLD ON PATCH.
https://mwomercs.com...-hold-on-patch/

The MM is not even close to being perfect since the players selected are only based on their PSR pts (tier level)

The thread below is what MWO ended up with, ie zero sum formula based on the 24 players/match. Some wanted it to be based on W/L but that was outside the range PGI was looking for. Every game on the market has the community complaining about their MM, and several are light years ahead of MWO setup. Would a healthier population have a factor in the MM? Yes, since that Tier spread is when it opens up due to not finding enough players and/or group within the Seeded tier level.

https://mwomercs.com...ity-version-10/

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 18 December 2023 - 02:40 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

SolCrusher, on 16 December 2023 - 10:29 PM, said:

I'm in Tier 4 land and see T1 guys all the time. TTB and Sean Lang have been on myside a couple times.

Could just be the day time players for me.

Yeah, when TTB is streaming on a weekday (and when Sean is streaming at his earlier time, like noon EST) its not peak play time in the EU yet, and there are very few players on that early in North or South America. The matchmaker is doing what it can to get ANY games started. Weekends don't have this problem.

[sycocys]

I can tell you that during the last stretch I played it wasn't all that uncommon to draw multiple cadets on the other side during NA peak hours.

During the first month or so of grinding back out of reset PSR it also wasn't uncommon to see players from the forums with t1-2 posting in on matches with t4-5s.

[Ignatius Audene]

I just address the FP part. If U get spawn camped U are clearly not rdy for the mode. There is no mm in FP so U end up with a lot of xp players in the best quirked / skilled matches for the situation. And U might even play vs premades.

U need to
1 don't loose in mechlab (fully skilled + range quirk deck is an must have)
2 bring friends
3 git gut

U can drop and have great fun missing 1 of the points above, but more will result in trouble. If u are interested read yondus FP guide for some builds and basics (like don't reinforce, don't bring lrms, max out your tonnage...)

If u get spawn camped your team is either 500% outskilled and red team is just ending faster or u didn't engage early enough. Even dropping solo I haven't been spawn camped for ages.

[crazytimes]

sycocys, on 18 December 2023 - 09:35 PM, said:

I can tell you that during the last stretch I played it wasn't all that uncommon to draw multiple cadets on the other side during NA peak hours.

During the first month or so of grinding back out of reset PSR it also wasn't uncommon to see players from the forums with t1-2 posting in on matches with t4-5s.

It's weird though how we never seem to see any screenshots of tier 1s with tier 5s. We just see posts of "yeah it definitely happens all the time".

Source: "trust me bro".

[sycocys]

crazytimes, on 18 December 2023 - 10:36 PM, said:

It's weird though how we never seem to see any screenshots of tier 1s with tier 5s. We just see posts of "yeah it definitely happens all the time".

Source: "trust me bro".

I guess I didn't really consider that it was any sort of area of contention. The game has had low population to the point they had to eliminate modes and queues and other than some streaks of drawing into low tier matches as I progressed it didn't much bother me to be pulling into higher tier matches where I belonged anyhow.

[Gasboy]

WaffleStorm, on 16 December 2023 - 02:12 PM, said:

If you are in a Quick Play match with players 2+ tiers below your current level, you play against them with a 25% damage handicap.

No thank you.

[Jolly Llama]

I hate the tier system. Just put everyone in a big mix. Pull out 24 and fight. So much grief for no reason.

[SolCrusher]

Tarl Cabot, on 16 December 2023 - 11:35 PM, said:

^^This^^. And the MM appears to take the group average, and that is not the Actual Tier then dividing it by the number in the group but the average PSR points. Nor does it take the highest tier level.. Each Tier is 1000 pts, so a Tier 4 would Tier 5 0-999 PSR pts be 1000-1999 PSR pts, etc.

And take into consideration when the MM selects the first player or group, that seeds the match level, ie group average or player is a Tier 3.then the other players are selected.

Occasionally I will see "Cadets" tags, it is rare but it happens. It will depend what Tier the seeded player was, as well as the average of the group. And the few times I have seen Cadet tags, they have been part of a group drop.

0876 pt - Tier 5
2412 pt - Tier 3
4872 pt - Tier 1
------
8160 / 3 = 2730 (Tier 3 aveage)

Seeded player, Tier 4 can be grouped with Tier 5 and Tier 3. And the seeded player is matched with others, plus or minus 2 tiers. So a Tier 5 COULD be in the same match as a grouped Tier 1 with lower tiered players, and their Tier average falls within the appropriate range.

This is sticky thread in the Announcement subs. This thread is essentially what lead to the current PSR setup. Previous PSR setup, almost everyone and their dog and cat would be in Tier 1/2/3 with a a smattering of new players in the lower gears. SolCrusher would likely be Tier 2 and the OP WaffleStorm of this thread would be in Tier 1, simply based on his average MS and W;L ratio. Back then we had players in Tier 1 who had an average 173 MS, 0.83 W/L ratio, and had gotten there by brute force of 25K+ games.

PSR UPDATE AND HOLD ON PATCH.
https://mwomercs.com...-hold-on-patch/

The MM is not even close to being perfect since the players selected are only based on their PSR pts (tier level)

The thread below is what MWO ended up with, ie zero sum formula based on the 24 players/match. Some wanted it to be based on W/L but that was outside the range PGI was looking for. Every game on the market has the community complaining about their MM, and several are light years ahead of MWO setup. Would a healthier population have a factor in the MM? Yes, since that Tier spread is when it opens up due to not finding enough players and/or group within the Seeded tier level.

https://mwomercs.com...ity-version-10/

I was Tier 1 before the reset. Just with the number of matches. But I like going all Rambo so yeah my stats suck now for sure.

[Ignatius Audene]

SolCrusher, on 20 December 2023 - 10:23 PM, said:

I was Tier 1 before the reset. Just with the number of matches. But I like going all Rambo so yeah my stats suck now for sure.

Before the reset tier was only an xp bar that u maxed out sooner or later. Now with 0 sum psr win or loose, falling in tiers is still hard (u will rise if u are slightly above AVG and the AVG mwo player is... Let's say that's an low bar.

Edited by Ignatius Audene, 22 December 2023 - 01:34 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Ignatius Audene, on 22 December 2023 - 01:33 AM, said:

Before the reset tier was only an xp bar that u maxed out sooner or later. Now with 0 sum psr win or loose, falling in tiers is still hard (u will rise if u are slightly above AVG and the AVG mwo player is... Let's say that's an low bar.

Yup, I'm perpetually Tier 2 since the reset. And I understand, and my shaky mechdad reflexes are okay with that.

[crazytimes]

Jolly Llama, on 20 December 2023 - 10:53 AM, said:

I hate the tier system. Just put everyone in a big mix. Pull out 24 and fight. So much grief for no reason.

Lulz.

After the two resets there was some serious farming until the population moved back to their respective parts of the spectrum. You don't want that. The PSR and MM isn't perfect - but it does sort people into rough buckets which is a lot better than nothing.

The new player experience is okay, because even the really experienced and resourced people at tier 5 are absolutely potato and not a threat to new people learning mechanics. That's a lot better than throwing everyone in one bucket and hoping new players stick around part their first few matches

[Hunka Junk]

1Exitar1, on 16 December 2023 - 09:35 PM, said:

I know for a FACT that I played against Tier ones in one of my very first matches. Thankfully Sean Lang and his group were on my side! They commented on how I still had my trainee tag and told me to just stick close to them.

You were a cadet in tier 4 in a match with Sean on your team and some Tier 1 player on the opposing team?

And yet you refuse to identify who this tier 1 person is. How did you know they were tier 1?