127 replies to this topic

[pbiggz]

LordNothing, on 04 January 2024 - 01:14 PM, said:

what's another unmitigated exploit? business as usual for this game. when used properly it would still allow players to play with all their friends. i think the legitimate gains outweigh the potential for abuse. then again that one is a hard one to moderate. its a crude equivalent to wall hack and could probibly be detected in the same way, then again i dont think the game is being actively moderated beyond the automated penalty and report system, and evidence submitted directly to support. they will deal with direct complaints and anyone who trips the automated systems a lot, but i dont think they go looking for it.

were mostly on the honor system here. if the game is perceived as being a hive of cheaters it will make people leave and potentially tank the game down into the red, thus ending it. so there is strong incentives for people who love the game to play honorably (the dominant portion of the population). the interlopers who do cheat aren't really good enough for it to matter (exceptions exist though).

A lot of people (mostly ones who post, so actually all things considered, only a few loud people) have a vested interest in externalizing their own bad performance. They do this by accusing people of playing illegitimately, whether that’s playing in groups or playing with weapons and strategies they don’t understand or don’t like. Regardless, it’s probably not a great plan to raise the group limit without a lot more people in the queue. I think it would be safer for pgi to do something to rehabilitate faction play in some way.

[Besh]

pbiggz, on 05 January 2024 - 04:24 AM, said:

A lot of people (mostly ones who post, so actually all things considered, only a few loud people) have a vested interest in externalizing their own bad performance. They do this by accusing people of playing illegitimately, whether that’s playing in groups or playing with weapons and strategies they don’t understand or don’t like. Regardless, it’s probably not a great plan to raise the group limit without a lot more people in the queue. I think it would be safer for pgi to do something to rehabilitate faction play in some way.

How do you know "a lot of people" having a "vested interest" ( that is just made out of thin air, and - to hold you to the standards you hold others to - wheres "the proof" for that ? ) in anything re this game ?

*shrug*

Edited by Besh, 05 January 2024 - 05:21 AM.

[pbiggz]

Besh, on 05 January 2024 - 05:01 AM, said:

How do you know "a lot of people" having a "vested interest" ( that is just made out of thin air, and - to hold you to the standards you hold others to - wheres "the proof" for that ? ) in anything re this game ?

*shrug*

To highlight.

pbiggz, on 05 January 2024 - 04:24 AM, said:

A lot of people (mostly ones who post, so actually all things considered, only a few loud people) have a vested interest in externalizing their own bad performance.

Im pointing out a pattern of behaviour by a few extremely vocal groups, each of which demonstrates a lack of understanding of the game based on their posting history, and externalizes that lack of understanding by trying to advocate for changes to the game that will reward them for their own bad habits/behaviour rather than making any effort to engage in introspection or to understand why their own habits lead them to lose more matches than they win.

I know it happens because have you seen the threads on here? Its a phenomenon restricted almost exclusively to this forum.

If you want solid examples, here's a few: Groups. Snipers. Light Mechs. The Cauldron. Larger Maps. Clan Weapons. Competitive Play. Pug Farming.

To analyze an example even further, lets take snipers. Since 2021 there have been at least two instances of people screeching about snipers, and always a sort of low simmering contempt for them, since the cauldron took over and made sniping actually a viable strategy, which, during the lowreybalance era, it wasnt.

Every time these threads come up, it comes out in the wash that the OP is marching a 100t brawler across open territory alone, and is mad that they cant close a gap with a well positioned sniper operating at its own leisure. Its a perfect example of people making outrage threads trying to get a competing strategy nerfed because they are simply bad at the game and think they're entitled to win in their pet mechs.

Edited by pbiggz, 05 January 2024 - 08:31 AM.

[LordNothing]

pbiggz, on 05 January 2024 - 04:24 AM, said:

A lot of people (mostly ones who post, so actually all things considered, only a few loud people) have a vested interest in externalizing their own bad performance. They do this by accusing people of playing illegitimately, whether that’s playing in groups or playing with weapons and strategies they don’t understand or don’t like. Regardless, it’s probably not a great plan to raise the group limit without a lot more people in the queue. I think it would be safer for pgi to do something to rehabilitate faction play in some way.

all they got to do is run more fp events, i usually show up for those because wait times become acceptable.

i dont think there is a big change they can make to fp that would be as effective as running a monthly fp event. the latter is certainly a lot easier to do as well.

Edited by LordNothing, 05 January 2024 - 09:15 AM.

[feeWAIVER]

pbiggz, on 05 January 2024 - 08:29 AM, said:

Every time these threads come up, it comes out in the wash that the OP is marching a 100t brawler across open territory alone, and is mad that they cant close a gap with a well positioned sniper operating at its own leisure. Its a perfect example of people making outrage threads trying to get a competing strategy nerfed because they are simply bad at the game and think they're entitled to win in their pet mechs.

I would love to play my Atlas' more often, but I know I'd be dealing with the headache of incoming gauss laser vomit, and Stone Rhino ballistic spam from 6 directions every time I turn a corner. Oh, and lurms are getting spammed all day in tier 1 nowadays too... so my Atlas' all collect dust until an Event Queue calls for them.

Edited by feeWAIVER, 05 January 2024 - 10:52 AM.

[Bigbacon]

4 mans already break the game in general queue, we don't need bigger ones.

[pbiggz]

Bigbacon, on 05 January 2024 - 11:05 AM, said:

4 mans already break the game in general queue, we don't need bigger ones.

We arent getting them. 4 mans are a necessary compromise to keep quickplay functioning. Larger groups belong in FP.

[CFC Conky]

feeWAIVER, on 05 January 2024 - 10:51 AM, said:

I would love to play my Atlas' more often, but I know I'd be dealing with the headache of incoming gauss laser vomit, and Stone Rhino ballistic spam from 6 directions every time I turn a corner. Oh, and lurms are getting spammed all day in tier 1 nowadays too... so my Atlas' all collect dust until an Event Queue calls for them.

Being in Tier 1 doesn't sound like a lot of fun.

The chaos of Tier 4 can be glorious at times.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 05 January 2024 - 11:20 AM.

[crazytimes]

CFC Conky, on 05 January 2024 - 11:19 AM, said:

Being in Tier 1 doesn't sound like a lot of fun.

The chaos of Tier 4 can be glorious at times.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

The lower tiers are mostly either new players passing through or old players in terrible builds but insist their shortfalls are everyone elses fault, and won't shut up about it. There's a solid sprinkle of old players in stealth mechs trolling new players as well I suppose. Not sure which of those groups is meant to be glorious fun.

My feelings are most people who insist gameplay is better at lower skill levels in any online game - definitely not just MWO - really mean they want to play people worse than them. Not equal. Not better. Just worse.

[Besh]

crazytimes, on 05 January 2024 - 06:17 PM, said:

The lower tiers are mostly either new players passing through or old players in terrible builds but insist their shortfalls are everyone elses fault, and won't shut up about it. There's a solid sprinkle of old players in stealth mechs trolling new players as well I suppose. Not sure which of those groups is meant to be glorious fun.

~snip

Apart from this being an overly generalized opinion, how would you know ?

[MrMadguy]

Solo players should get some compensation then. Like 4x rewards for playing with/against groups.

[TheCaptainJZ]

It would be nice if we knew how many groups were in the MM at once. It would be nice if someone were actually analyzing the MM and the queue in real time and really understood what was going on and could relay that to us. If there's only a few groups queued during prime time when the MM is making a match, then mixed queue is the only choice.

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 06 January 2024 - 08:08 AM.

[crazytimes]

Besh, on 06 January 2024 - 04:54 AM, said:

Apart from this being an overly generalized opinion, how would you know ?

There's a handful of low tier streamers that I watch occasionally. There's a handful of high tier streamers that run alts doing various challenges to tier 1- TTB is doing a "trial mechs only" at the moment for example. Watching these known low tier matches gives a good impression of what they're like.

Just to make sure though- I started an alt. It's my name + IIC, you're welcome to look it up. I don't brag about it's stats because I just roflstomped my way to tier 1, seal clubbing bad people isn't something to be proud of as such. It did give me a very good idea of just how badly a lot of the low tier but experienced people actually play..

I documented my experience in a thread, look that up to. I am confident I have enough sample size to back up my earlier statement. I'll add to it well- way more legendaries in the lower tiers than upper as well. It was not uncommon to have 3 or 4 different ones on a team, and not the most recent releases. Almost all built terribly though.

I've got plenty of videos of the lower tier matches as well of you need more proof. Or just make a new account and experience it yourself.

[Besh]

crazytimes, on 06 January 2024 - 07:13 PM, said:

There's a handful of low tier streamers that I watch occasionally. There's a handful of high tier streamers that run alts doing various challenges to tier 1- TTB is doing a "trial mechs only" at the moment for example. Watching these known low tier matches gives a good impression of what they're like.

Just to make sure though- I started an alt. It's my name + IIC, you're welcome to look it up. I don't brag about it's stats because I just roflstomped my way to tier 1, seal clubbing bad people isn't something to be proud of as such. It did give me a very good idea of just how badly a lot of the low tier but experienced people actually play..

I documented my experience in a thread, look that up to. I am confident I have enough sample size to back up my earlier statement. I'll add to it well- way more legendaries in the lower tiers than upper as well. It was not uncommon to have 3 or 4 different ones on a team, and not the most recent releases. Almost all built terribly though.

I've got plenty of videos of the lower tier matches as well of you need more proof. Or just make a new account and experience it yourself.

Thanks for elaborating . Am going to see whether I can find the Thread you mentioned .

[Half Ear]

Besh, on 07 January 2024 - 01:16 AM, said:

Thanks for elaborating . Am going to see whether I can find the Thread you mentioned .

His alt barely plays any mediums!! Why?? (edited. wasnt being too serious there.. forgot the smiley )

https://mwomercs.com...tier-1-journey/

https://leaderboard....=crazytimes+IIC

Edited by Half Ear, 07 January 2024 - 01:59 PM.

[crazytimes]

Half Ear, on 07 January 2024 - 05:46 AM, said:

His alt barely plays any mediums!! Why??

https://mwomercs.com...tier-1-journey/

https://leaderboard....=crazytimes+IIC

I was just trying to get things over and done with and would have been heat capped for DPS in mediums. Heavies and faster assaults made the grind quicker because I could get damage out.

I now use it for events/lootbags, it's got a bunch of reward/event MC bought lights and mediums now, I just don't play them as much because I've got way more heavies and assaults.

Don't look too deep into the stats- like I said, it was seal clubbing for the grind. It's been tier 1 for most.of it's life now, but those early numbers will always distort it.

[Half Ear]

the check engine light, on 07 January 2024 - 11:34 AM, said:

Maybe he doesn't like them. Is it important?

It was a snarky/not serious remark I like mediums and it shows.. I have been floating around Tier 2 for awhile.

Edited by Half Ear, 07 January 2024 - 02:08 PM.

[Breaktime]

TheCaptainJZ, on 04 January 2024 - 01:03 PM, said:

As much as it would be nice if you could play with friends up to 12 on the same team, this game never had enough of a population to balance that out in a good way.


This could be exploited though. Presumably, they're on comms outside of the game, but there's no way to really deal with that if they're sync dropping instead either, other than they may not be in the same match.

I started the thread, and while maybe I wasn't clear, I was never asking for large groups on the same team, just in the same game. I would like it where if we search as a group of 5-6, the matchmaker puts us all in a game and distributes us across teams as it sees fit. Basically we can arrange to sync drop.

I understand that this exploitable to some extent, but I also understand that many of the initial responses were basically 'no, that's a bad idea. Just do sync drops'. Advice to do sync drops suggests that 1) an workaround to do these exploits exists and presumably the game is already being exploited, and 2) it is a culturally acceptable practice, so presumably the exploitation is not that bad.

My point is, my friends and I enjoy 12v12 mode and earning Cbills, and we want to play together. I feel like allowing larger groups to search for games, where the matchmaker splits the group up within the game as needed, would be more positive than negative. We've had a few instances where someone will jump on, see we already have a group of 4, and then just go do something else rather than ask split up the group.

[KingCobra]

Breaktime, on 08 January 2024 - 10:41 AM, said:

I started the thread, and while maybe I wasn't clear, I was never asking for large groups on the same team, just in the same game. I would like it where if we search as a group of 5-6, the matchmaker puts us all in a game and distributes us across teams as it sees fit. Basically we can arrange to sync drop.

I understand that this exploitable to some extent, but I also understand that many of the initial responses were basically 'no, that's a bad idea. Just do sync drops'. Advice to do sync drops suggests that 1) an workaround to do these exploits exists and presumably the game is already being exploited, and 2) it is a culturally acceptable practice, so presumably the exploitation is not that bad.

My point is, my friends and I enjoy 12v12 mode and earning Cbills, and we want to play together. I feel like allowing larger groups to search for games, where the matchmaker splits the group up within the game as needed, would be more positive than negative. We've had a few instances where someone will jump on, see we already have a group of 4, and then just go do something else rather than ask split up the group.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is my question to you and all the others in MWO that want to shove more organized team play into Solo Quick Play is.
(WHY DONT YOU ALL GO PLAY FACTION PLAY)?

And of course, you will all come back with (it takes to long to get a match). and (we get. Killed to fast by bigger, better teams) and (we can't win unless we farm solo/casual players) and the excuses list goes on and on and on.

P.S I told them how to solve the wait times in Faction Play Matchmaker = a12v12/8v8/6v6 player combo whichever amount comes up and fills the que and drop the game plus rewind Faction play back to year 3 when it had all its faction bonuses and faction mechs and stickers ETC for rewards. And x3 or x4 the CB and MC rewards for the time spent in matches and for heck sakes PGI and listen get staff back in MWO that can fix a problem not just balance issues that do exist or don't exist.

Edited by KingCobra, 08 January 2024 - 11:41 AM.

[pbiggz]

Breaktime, on 08 January 2024 - 10:41 AM, said:

I started the thread, and while maybe I wasn't clear, I was never asking for large groups on the same team, just in the same game. I would like it where if we search as a group of 5-6, the matchmaker puts us all in a game and distributes us across teams as it sees fit. Basically we can arrange to sync drop.

I understand that this exploitable to some extent, but I also understand that many of the initial responses were basically 'no, that's a bad idea. Just do sync drops'. Advice to do sync drops suggests that 1) an workaround to do these exploits exists and presumably the game is already being exploited, and 2) it is a culturally acceptable practice, so presumably the exploitation is not that bad.

My point is, my friends and I enjoy 12v12 mode and earning Cbills, and we want to play together. I feel like allowing larger groups to search for games, where the matchmaker splits the group up within the game as needed, would be more positive than negative. We've had a few instances where someone will jump on, see we already have a group of 4, and then just go do something else rather than ask split up the group.

What you're looking for is faction play. It is, regrettably, a part of the game that has experienced a great deal of neglect from the developers. It requires alot of players to function properly, and has a higher barrier to entry.

Your best bet is to communicate with other larger groups and see when they're playing faction play. You can join them and hopefully have enough to fill out a few matches.